[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Hello everyone, and welcome to the 2024 Annual Meetings of the IMF and World Bank Group. Welcome to you all. I’m Rajini Vaidyanathan. Well, for the next 90 minutes, we’re going to be trying to answer one question. How can food and agriculture serve as an engine of sustainable growth and jobs? We’re going to be examining the vast potential of the global food system to see how the sector can spur economic growth, create the jobs of tomorrow, but also deal with the challenges of climate change. Well, you can join the conversation online using the hashtag #WBGMeetings. Our experts will be answering your questions online in multiple languages at live.worldbank.org. If you’re watching online, you can submit your questions in the live chat, or if you’re here in the room with us, you can use the QR codes which are displayed around the room here. Well, through the course of the event, we’re going to be hearing from government ministers, business leaders, and farming organizations, people from every corner of the planet who are at the heart of this agenda. But before we do that, let’s hear from the President of the World Bank Group, Ajay Banga, for his thoughts on the topic. [Applause]
[Ajay Banga] Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be here with all of you. For decades, we’ve spoken about the potential of agribusiness and the role that agriculture plays in shaping the future of food security, of nutrition, of growth, and of employment. We’ve all examined the challenges from every angle: how to increase food production, how to boost productivity, how to resolve issues around water scarcity, how to look at fertilizers, infrastructure, and of course, financing. These challenges have often become roadblocks to realizing the full potential of this industry, but something has changed and something is different currently. That is that four key shifts are emerging that make this the right moment, I believe, for a new strategic approach for the World Bank Group. First, agriculture itself is increasingly vulnerable to climate risks and a significant contributor to emissions. Yet it only receives 4% of climate finance globally. There is clearly an opportunity to tap into these resources to advance climate-smart agriculture, which I think would grow productivity while reducing emissions. Second, new tools have come to right for derisking, which are opening doors for the private capital to flow into the agricultural sector. We’ve seen credit guarantees, first loss facilities, and insurance instruments to help make lending safe and more commercially viable for the private sector. These financial tools, when you pair them with public sector policy and regulatory reforms, then you can create a favorable environment for the private investor. Third, in the past, reaching individual farmers had been quite challenging. And in fact, even for fintechs and commercial banks, it was a challenge. Advancements in digitization and new digital tools have created opportunities to aggregate farmers, to connect them with buyers, with financial services, and with innovative technologies that enhance productivity. I have personal experience of this from my prior career. I know that these tools help to create a digital footprint. They help farmers to establish a credit history. They help them to gain access to getting these financial services at a much lower cost, sometimes as much lowered as 90% of what it would have been if they didn’t have those histories. Fourth, a significant portion of agribusiness financing is sourced from large food companies and from traders who often operate in isolation. This obviously creates inefficiencies, it creates fragmentation; but most importantly, it leaves small farmers out from the benefit of this activity. We found that with these farmer organizations, what in the old days we used to call “cooperatives” and producer organizations, we can move beyond the challenges of the past. These four emerging shifts have the potential to fundamentally shape and reshape the agribusiness landscape. I think they come at a time of extraordinary opportunity as global food demand is set to increase, as Juergen [Voegele] reminds me, between 50% and 60% in the coming decades. But taking advantage of this approach will not happen without changing how we do things. For us, that change begins today with a goal to create a comprehensive ecosystem for agribusiness, bringing all parts of the World Bank Group together to work as one unit. That strategic pivot is made possible because of the work done over the past 16 months by the people in this Institution to become a better simpler, more coordinated Institution in itself. It moves us beyond fragmented efforts to what I call a constellation of solutions that includes everything from warehousing, to logistics, to production, but with small holder farmers and producer organizations at the center, at the core as the foundation. We are combining a new way of working with a new level of investment, doubling our agrifinance and agribusiness commitments across the Group to 9 billion dollars annually by 2030. With IBRD and IDA’s experience building capacity and services of the public sector, with IFC and MIGA being the financing experts and the private sector access that they provide, we think we can make changes that will be seen and felt by business and by government partners alike with a goal to increase mobilization from the private sector in addition to the 9 billion that we put in as a Group by 2030 to increase mobilization to another 5 billion dollars by 2030. For example, our public sector arms can help countries develop regulations and standards like those that ensure that products comply with export market requirements. They can advise on land tenure solutions. They can advise on developing national irrigation networks. In the area of climate finance, they can help governments repurpose some of the 1.25 trillion dollars of fossil fuel, agriculture, and fisheries subsidies to incentivize greener practices, and I think that will unlock a significant source of financing for the agricultural sector. While our private sector teams can focus on everything from debt and equity funding to mitigating risk with guarantees. That’s how the two groups come together. Now, these guarantees have always been a challenge, this whole issue of mitigating risk, because producers haven’t always been to be able to access our fragmented derisking instruments. We’re now moving towards an integrated approach. We have brought these resources together under the World Bank Group Guarantee Platform that’s run by MIGA. It’s a key step and a key part of this. It makes it possible to get delivered tailored solutions that meet the diverse demands of our partners. But I think where I see the greatest potential is by integrating the link between our public sector work and our private sector support to help smallholder farmers connect into the supply chain. IBRD has expertise in working closely with smallholder and producer organizations to improve their productivity, to improve their climate resilience, to make them viable suppliers that can meet the scale, the consistency, and the high standards that larger companies and a number of geographies need from the produce. Once established, IFC can step in not only to provide financing for equipment and the like, but also to connect those very producer organizations, those farmer organizations, those cooperatives, with companies that seek reliable sources of quality produce. The key bottleneck to be addressed will differ across countries. It will differ from value chain to value chain. We cannot predetermine these interventions universally, that would be a mistake because every country will have a certain set of barriers to be overcome. But with a World Bank Group ecosystem approach, I think we can identify and help to annul any number of barriers to build the opportunity. The reality is the effort to transform agribusiness is not only about the food demand that Juergen was talking to me about. I think it is fundamentally an initiative to develop jobs for people. In the next 10 years, 1.2 billion young people in developing countries will enter the workforce. Yet currently, focuses are that only 420 million jobs are projected to be available in those countries. That leads nearly 800 million people without a clear path to employment. A job is dignity. Poverty is a state of mind, not just a state of being. We have to give these young people the hope that enables them to be a constructive part of our futures together, of driving economic growth, and hope, and optimism around the world. We’ve got two parts. Give them the chance to power that future or give them one where they will challenge our future because of migration, because of social unrest, and because of despondency driven by unemployment. Our strategic shift in agribusiness is aimed at unlocking that brighter future, that path to the future, to power our possibilities as a world interconnected, delivering quality of life and delivering jobs and the dignity that the jobs bring. Quality of life improves as agricultural productivity increases. Climate smart production practices mean fewer emissions, cleaner air. Higher income leads to investments in fresh water infrastructure. Diets improve, children grow up healthier. They’re better able to make the most of their education and their opportunities. Healthier communities are way more resilient. For young people, the rise of a thriving agricultural industry brings the promise of a better life. With more jobs in rural areas and higher incomes, they no longer face the same limitations generations as their forefathers and their parents. They have the opportunity to pursue fulfilling careers, whether in agriculture with their families or to pursue a new generation of job which will require scaling and education for them, or for a different type. The point is, it will become their choice. The chance for a brighter future becomes more attainable, their choice, creating a cycle of prosperity and progress. We all stand at a crossroad, and the path we choose today will determine our future. By transforming agriculture for small farmers into agribusiness, by transforming agribusiness into a possible route for small farmers to develop their own capabilities, we can create the food system of tomorrow. We can raise living standards. Most importantly, we can create jobs and build hope. Thank you very much for your support. Thank you. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thanks very much, President Banga, there for those opening comments and remarks. Well, now it’s time to get into our panels. We have a number of panels through the course of the morning, so do stay with us. But first, let me introduce our first two panelists. Please, give a warm welcome to Anne Beathe Tvinnereim, Norway’s Minister of International Development here. Thank you. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] And Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli, who is President of the ONE campaign and CEO as well. Welcome to both of you. [Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Thank you. [Rajini Vaidyanathan] We were listening to what President Banga had to say there, some of the challenges. I’m going to start with you, Ndidi. You started a business with the aim of producing nutritious food in Nigeria. How do you balance the desire for profit and growth with also ensuring that people get healthy and nutritious food, and which President Banga touched on, ensure that farmers are properly paid as well?
[Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli] Thank you very much. For me, I think that the hidden middle in Africa is the small and medium-sized enterprise. What I have devoted a large part of my life to is building that out. Through our company, AACE Foods, what we were able to demonstrate is the power of local production for local markets and taste buds and how do you unlock that? With AACE Foods, what we decided to do was to really invest in saying, what do Nigerians need that we’re currently importing that we can source locally. We built out a successful spice, snack, and flour company sourcing from 10,000 farmers, working with them not only to improve their livelihoods, but also to improve the nutritional status of the people. Now, the challenge there is that many SMEs don’t have an enabling environment, don’t have the technology, the know-how, the catalytic capital, and the support. But when you invest in building out those chains, and many companies have to do that for the first time, you unlock tremendous potential. Now, what we have proven with this company is that SMEs can not only create jobs, 90% of our staff are women, so it addresses the gender. 20% of our staff are youth, many times first-time job seekers. We’ve provided a warm meal, health insurance, and then you’re building out a distribution channel also with women. And so, that catalytic effect is amazing. My vision is to have millions of SMEs scaling that are sourcing locally and displacing imports because that addresses the foreign exchange challenge, that addresses the gender gap, the debt issues, and also it addresses nutrition. And the truth is, Africa has the best food in the world. We have nutritious food, but we have almost focused on imports as a solution, as opposed to building out a local value chain. The success stories we’ve seen through AACE Foods and through African Food Changemakers have demonstrated the potential to scale. I’m excited that the World Bank is prioritizing. But beyond farmers, I think it’s critical we also invest in those SMEs that process food for local markets and ensure that that food is healthy, sustainable, and sourced in a climate-resilient manner.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you for your initial comments there, Ndidi, talking about the importance of SMEs and talking about spice and snacks are making us all quite hungry this morning as well. Anne, I’m going to bring you in to get a government perspective on this. That was a private sector view. Norway has placed a huge emphasis on food and nutrition at the heart of your agenda, giving aid to developing nations as well. Tell us more about how you’re doing that and why, and what the impacts are.
[Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Well, let me start with a why. Norway has put food security on top of our development agenda, and there are many reasons for that. The first is that food is a fundamental human right. Fifty years ago, the world promised to eradicate hunger. Fifty years ago, and here we are today. It’s a disgrace. And the SDG 2 was actually the Sustainable Development Goal that first went in the wrong direction. All from… Ever since 2014, we saw an increasing number of hungry people, and then we had the pandemic, then we had the invasion of Ukraine, and everything accelerated in the wrong direction. So, that’s the first motivation. The second is that food production really is core of so many existential threats and challenges to the world today. Agricultural production is part of the climate problem, but it’s also part of the solution. We have to invest in climate-smart agriculture to address mitigation, but also adaptation. Secondly, I am sure that investing in small-scale farmers and climate-smart food production is key to eradicating poverty. I believe in it. I’ve seen the same in my own country. We know that 75% of the world’s poorest live in rural areas. We also know, and I believe these are numbers from the World Bank, investing in the agricultural sector in sub-Saharan Africa is 11% more effective than investing in any other sector. And it’s really, I mean, for me, it’s really a no-brainer. We have millions of small-scale farmers in Africa that are not able to produce for the local or regional market. At the same time, we have an African continent that is projected to invest foodstuffs worth 110 billion dollars next year. That is such a lost opportunity. And that is why I totally alert to your point about, yes, investing in the small-scale farmers, but also in those value chains from the farmer to the market. It can create millions of jobs.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you, Anne. Ndidi, I’m going to bring you back in on something Anne was just talking about there, about the potential that Africa has. There’s long been a conversation, hasn’t there, about Africa becoming the bread basket of the world. It’s not quite there yet. What steps do you think are needed to get there?
[Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli] Well, I think there are some steps we’re already seeing, and there are more steps we need to push on. The first one is investment in innovation. Technology around seed systems, fertilizer, homegrown solutions. We’re starting to see African national research institutions invest in those homegrown solutions for critical value chains like rice, tubers, yams, cassava, and lentils, etc. So, innovation. And that allows us to have productivity gains that are 3x, 4x, and 10x. We’re starting to see that in many value chains. The second is catalytic capital. That’s why IDA21 and other key types of interventions are critical to ensure that we have private sector-led growth around value addition and processing. I think Africans are tired of that subsistence messaging around farmer livelihoods. We need to scale our businesses, and they are businesses committed to scaling. And many smallholder farmers want to go from subsistence to becoming substantial entrepreneurs, and Ajay talked about that. The third is knowledge and skills transfer. Our young people are excited about using technology to ensure that we can scale quickly and data. I think now we have so much technology around agriculture that allows us to leapfrog. And the fourth is access to markets. For me, it’s not just about removing the trade barriers within Africa, it’s also ensuring that we can trade with the rest of the world, not commodities, but processed high-quality food that is tasty, nutritious, and good for you. That narrative shift has to change. The face of Africa can no longer be a hungry child, and the face of poverty should not be a female farmer from Africa. We need to change that narrative to ensure that we have... When we think of Africa, we think of a successful female entrepreneur, and that our products are well-packaged and on global shelves, and that we can compete with the best of them. The good news is that we’re starting to see lots of bright spots. Through African Food Changemakers I created, we work with entrepreneurs in 40 African countries, and they are scaling, but they need more support. So, I’m excited to see what we can do together and I’m excited that the World Bank is prioritizing ag and value addition in Africa because that is critical to the jobs, to the gender gap being closed, and to the narrative shift that we need.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you so much, Ndidi. I have to say, I think you’ll I agree, that’s really inspirational hearing that from you. Thank you for those comments. You mentioned there IDA, which, of course, is the International Development Association. Well, Minister, Norway is trying to help on that front. Norway helps fund IDA. IDA. It’s a part of the World Bank, of course, as you all know, which provides finance to developing countries. How do you think IDA can change the equation, Minister?
[Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Well, I think IDA is at the core of the solution to also invest in food security and agriculture in Africa. And that’s why we should all rally in the days to come to make sure that the replenishment of IDA is truly successful because there’s so much fragmentation in the development architecture today, and it’s a problem. We need to rally around what actually works. IDA works. IDA leverages three and a half to four percent of what donors put into it. I’m really excited to see that also food security and agriculture has been put on the top of the agenda in this Meeting. So, it’s quite obvious that IDA will be, I think, at the core to respond to these challenges, but also these opportunities. If I can just mention one more point, we see how Brazil, with its Presidency of the G20 this year, has lifted food security and hunger, including with the Alliance Against Hunger [and Poverty], which will be launched formally next month. I’m really excited to see that IDA as being a tool, a vehicle, cooperating with that global alliance. I think it’s a very powerful alliance. I think we have to put our forces around it. The best news is that IDA is collaborating with this global alliance because we really can’t keep creating new funds every time we see a challenge. Let us use what is actually working out there, and IDA is. IDA works.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thanks, Minister. Before we wrap up, we’ve got about five minutes left. I do want to ask you both one question which underpins a lot of this discussion. It was mentioned, of course, in President Banga’s address as well. I’ll start with you again on this, Minister. It’s the challenge of being climate resilient. How do you achieve these goals in a world which is facing climate emergencies?
[Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Well, like I said at the beginning, food production is part of the solution, not only part of the problem in terms of climate change. What I want to see ahead is that we are able to connect the dots. I mean, in a few weeks, we’re going to the COP discussing climate challenge, and my main message is, let’s put food production also at the top of the agenda at the COP. And we need to put... [Applause] [Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Thank you. And we need to put the small-scale food producer at the top of that discussion. One of my main messages is, today, only 0.8% of international climate finance reaches the small-scale farmer. That is absurd because that woman and that man is at the front line of climate change. So, a lot more of the climate finance from donors should reach that farmer. Secondly, let us invest for real in those value chains. This very week, Norway is launching, formally, a new fund, together with the USAID, called the FASA Fund. It’s really exciting. It’s the first in its kind, but it’s not brain surgery. I mean, it’s quite simple. We are launching a first loss mechanism to make sure that we invest in those, very often, mostly women, who are creating added value to the produce from the farmers. But these women very often fall behind two chairs. They are too small for the private banks, too big for the microfinance. So, this can be done. We just have to focus our attention and our finance, and we can make a huge difference together.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you very much, Minister. You got quite a bit of an applause when you mentioned the need for food production to be placed at the top of the climate agenda. Ndidi, how can that conversation change then?
[Ndidi Okonkwo Nwuneli] I think there are two things, and I completely agree. We need an ecosystem approach to addressing the climate challenges. In our context, food is medicine. So, food is critical to our health investments, food is livelihoods, food is culture, and food is critical not only as a solution to the climate challenge, but also pivotal in helping us stay resilient through it. I’m a big believer in it. At ONE Campaign we are pushing for three things. Number one is a commitment to supporting and working with African nations through this crisis. And there’s a place for the debt discussion because many countries are having to pick between paying for school fees, or health care for their staff, for their people, and debt repayments. We are very interested in countries partnering with African nations to think about debt swaps and restructuring that link to climate, link to school feeding, link to payment for salaries for health workers. I really would love to see those discussions come on board because we need that, it’s critical. The second is that we really need the political will at the highest levels. The ONE Campaign released the Climate Finance Files. We followed the climate funds to where they were supposed to go, and the sad reality is a lot of them did not end up where they were supposed to go. The call to action is let’s ensure transparency, and accountability, and the delivering of climate adaptation, innovation, funding to local organizations, and at local levels. Let’s hold ourselves accountable to do the right thing. Then finally, we really need a lot more global cooperation to ensure that we invest in catalytic financing. I applaud Norway for the fund. We need to see many of those cross pollination occurring, catalytic patient capital to drive growth and to ensure that Africa feeds itself and feeds the world. It’s possible and we can achieve it in our lifetime. Thank you. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay. Thank you very much to both of you. To Minister Tvinnereim, and of course, to Ndidi as well. Really thought-provoking and, of course, a reminder on the ground of what this challenge looks like as well. Thanks to both of you for being here. [Anne Beathe Tvinnereim] Thank you. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Well, coming up, we’ll be speaking to key players from a far afield as Brazil, India, and Senegal to get their thoughts on food and growth globally. But before we do that, let’s give you some idea of the potential in this sector. Well, there could be a benefit of some 5 to 10 trillion US dollars every year if the agri-economy produces nutritious food, which is low in emissions and resistant to climate change and pays farmers well. Well, as many as 80% of farmers lack access to finance, technology, and markets. It means the people who ultimately drive the sector are marginalized. Well, each year, countries channel some 650 billion US dollars into agricultural subsidies, which can discourage producers from going green. Well, the World Bank believes that if just 10% of that spending is used better, then the benefits could be huge. For example, it could help reduce global greenhouse emissions by some 40%. Well, to discuss that in a bit more detail, please now welcome to the stage, the next panel. Francisco Tiu Laurel, Jr., the Secretary of the Department of Agriculture of the Philippines. [Applause] [Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] Hello. [Rajini Vaidyanathan] And Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa, Minister of Finance from Angola. [Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa] Thank you.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Welcome to both of you. The question we’re going to examine in this section is, what governments can do to create a better system? I’ll start with you, Secretary Tiu Laurel. In the Philippines, you’ve worked quite hard to make the rice sector competitive through various changes, and that’s brought prices down for consumers. In the end, it means you import far less rice from outside. You’re less reliant on the outside sector. How has that also improved the lives of farmers?
[Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] Well, the main aim is for farmers to increase the yields. If the yields increase per hectare, definitely they will have more income, but it’s not as easy as that. We have to use a lot of technology, like the right seeds for the right type of season. We have to adapt to new farming techniques like alternate wet and dry system. We even have to change our cropping calendar. If in many areas in order to achieve a better yield or increase our cropping intensity. So, it’s a whole bundle of things that we need to do in order for us to be able to increase the income of our farmers so that they become bankable, and so they would replant every season.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] How open have the farmers been to that change? Because as we heard in the earlier discussion, it’s about empowering the farmers on the ground, isn’t it?
[Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] The reception is quite good, as long as there is government support, of course. But support means a little bit of subsidy, a little bit of financing, and insurance is also a very important component of what we need to do. Clustering them, the farmers, because we have smallholder farms, has been the challenge, but as long as the package or the menu that we are giving them is very attractive, now everyone’s very willing to be part of a cluster, or a cooperative, or an association.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you very much, Secretary. Minister, I’m going to bring you in. In Angola, you’re embarking on an equally ambitious transformation, trying to move investments away from oil into agriculture. How are you doing that and what challenges are you facing?
[Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa] Thank you, Rajini. First of all, it’s a change of mindset. We need to make sure that we create awareness about the importance of diversifying the economy and pursuing a business where the profit is not so quick, but it’s well paid and with a good and positive impact. So, we are building on that and we are seeing the interest coming. I will be totally honest with you, we are seeing a strong movement in terms of a familiar agriculture, small farmers, but we need to keep working to scale up the commercial agriculture. The challenges are basically the same for both sides, infrastructures, roads good enough to make sure that we move the production from the farms to the city centers, cool storage rooms, good conditions to make sure that we keep the products as good as possible for a long period of time. The financial system reshape itself to accommodate the agribusiness, to calibrate the insurance, the agri-insurance solutions, and having the investment rooms of the banks ready to attend that specific niche. Liquidity as a whole of the system being available to support and the know-how. Soil’s productivity, how to scale up production. Putting a lot of energy on those three variables will help us to support the families to produce even more and become formal, become profitable. That business, not only to eat, to maintain themselves, but also to earn money for this and attract more commercial agriculture to increase our potential to also export.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] I wanted to pick up on what you just said there about attracting commercial interest as well because that’s a theme throughout this, isn’t it? Balancing what governments can do alongside what the private sector can do. How are you navigating that challenge?
[Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa] We are doing what is necessary to create the basic conditions for the interest to come, to create a good fiscal environment to attract that interest, putting public guarantees, and in some ways, even liquidity within financial institutions available for the private sector that wants to invest, having financing lines open to participate, and also see how we can help to bridge the interest in between who is producing and who wants to buy and use to import. In some cases, put them on the table to talk and force new relationships to be created.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you very much. Secretary Laurel, I’m going to bring you into that very same point. What partnerships are you working on with the private sector? What role do financial institutions play in your country when it comes to transforming the farming sector?
[Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] As far as the move of our administration now is concerned, we are doing regular meetings on a monthly, even bi-weekly basis with the private sector and other stakeholders. With that, we’re planning to... We’re not planning, but we want to have a merging of the minds so that both, the private sector and the government have the same goal and we’ll come up with the same roadmap to achieve the ultimate goal of food security. Of course, the financial institutions are also involved in this as also part of the stakeholder agriculture. We are also involving the financial institutions, wherein the Department of Agriculture of the Philippines is actually part of the Land Bank of the Philippines and the Development Bank of the Philippines, also helping us with commercial banks. And of course, the World Bank would be a big part of the equation, and the World Bank would help agriculture in the Philippines a lot.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] I’d like to ask you all one more question, which, again, underpins this entire conversation. As we were just discussing, Secretary, before we came out here, unfortunately, the only time I visited your country was to cover a devastating typhoon, Typhoon Haiyan, which is a reminder of the impact of climate change. Again, your thoughts on how that plays into some of the conversations you’re having as a government, and with the private sector, and indeed the farmers on the ground in terms of how you can get healthy and nutritious food and balance that with the challenges of climate change.
[Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] Climate change has always been a very big challenge to the Philippines. We have an average of 23 typhoons every year. Of course, we just came from El Niño, and now La Niña. What we realized is we need a lot of infrastructure or storage of everything, from storage, storing water, storing grains, storing meat, vegetables in cold storages. To address or limit the problem of climate change, we need to really invest a lot in the infrastructure and the logistics system of our food systems or our food chain in the Philippines. That’s a very big part, a storage of everything.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Interesting. Is that a similar perspective you share in Angola?
[Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa] Yes, but we are also working with our partners, multilateral partners. To be more specific, we have one project with the World Bank to build the resiliency of the cultures, of the farmers, and the entire production to the consequences of the climate change. We have another initiative where we are doing our best to mitigate the impact of the climate change on the agri-production, on the farmers with our multilateral partner support and allocating with our on our own budget. So yes, it’s a matter of infrastructures, but it’s also a matter of... And irrigation is part of it. It’s also a matter of studying cultures, how to produce, and making sure that the farmers, they have the proper knowledge to manage it. The seeds, fertilizers, building local capacity of producing it, not only importing, but producing, considering that aggression that could come from the climate change.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, Minister, Secretary, unfortunately, we’ve run out of time for this panel, but I think the audience would agree. Some really interesting insights on how you’re trying to work with the private sector, what governments can do, and of course, the view from farmers on the ground. Thank you very much. [Francisco P. Tiu Laurel, Jr.] Thank you very much. [Vera Esperança Dos Santos Daves De Sousa] Thank you. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Well, remember, you can send any questions on what we have discussed so far on this topic. To us, you can use the hashtag #WBGMeetings. We do have experts in multiple languages standing by to answer your questions online at live.worldbank.org. You can, of course, send your questions in the live chat. If you’re here in the room, do stay with us. There are QR codes displayed around the room. Let’s move to the next portion of this discussion. We’ll continue with a varied panel from around the globe, but let’s give you a sense of the importance of this discussion because the food economy, as you can see on the screen there, employs 1.2 billion people in the world. Agriculture is a huge creator of jobs. In Africa, for instance, farming generates around 68% of rural income. In many developing economies, informal networks provide around a quarter, 25% of the financial services available to smallholder farmers. But there are solutions. If farmers have access to banking and markets, then it’s thought that the industry could add some 500 billion dollars to the global economy in the next five years. That’s a significant amount, of course. Here to join me to discuss this section of the program is Mabouba Diagne, Minister of Agriculture, Food Sovereignty and Livestock from Senegal. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you very much. S. Divyadharshini, Chief Executive Officer of the Tamil Nadu Rural Transformation Project. Ishmael Sunga. Thank you for being here. CEO of the Southern African Confederation of Agricultural Unions. Last, but certainly not least, Ayodeji Balogun, Group CEO of AFEX in Nigeria. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, let’s all be seated. Welcome to all of you. I’m sure you’ve been listening to what we’ve been discussing already, talking about the potential that this sector has in terms of jobs creation. Minister, let’s start with you. We discussed this in a bit of detail just now, talking about how private capital can unlock and provide a transformation for the food economy. How has that done it for your country?
[Mabouba Diagne] Currently, Senegal is importing close to 1.2 billion dollars every year to feed its 18 million people. 1.4 million metric tons of rice, 806,000 metric tons of wheat, 450,000 metrics of maize, 347,000 metrics of fruit and veg. And we strongly believe that across the value chain of those commodities, hundred thousands of jobs could be created by creating a cooperative in the 557 communes in the country, from certified seed production, unlocking the value chain across production, transformation, storage, and linking also the domestic market, the regional and international market. And we strongly believe that it’s only and only across those value chains, those thousands of jobs could be created. Today, if you see how the agriculture and livestock sectors are fragmented in our countries, technology can be used to leapfrog how Africa should feed Africa, but also linking the agribusiness, the agri-sector and the livestock sector of Africa into the international commodity market. Please, allow me to give you just one example. Senegal is importing close to 100 million euros of powder milk every year. To produce this locally, we need 55,000 cows. We need not more than 20,000 hectares of maize silage. Can you imagine all those number of small jobs that could be created, again, livestock, farming, transformation of milk locally? These are thousands of jobs, hundred thousands of jobs that could be created. After spending 27 years abroad in the international banking market, when I came back home, this is exactly what I did. And by creating six small companies, I have created hundreds of jobs. And in the next coming 12 to 24 months, we’re going to be creating over 500 jobs. I strongly do believe that me, being the Minister of Agriculture, this is what I’m trying to replicate by handing over, by asking the private sector through private-public partnership to support governments in doing this together.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you so much, Minister. It’s really interesting there when you gave us that example because it’s also about understanding the market from all perspectives, understanding what the farmers want, what they need, understanding the potential, but also the potential with the private sector. Ayo, I’m going to I’ll bring you in to pick up on that point with a private sector perspective. Your company, AFEX, has a model which connects farmers to markets. How does that work and what are the benefits of that?
[Ayodeji Balogun] Thank you, very much. When we look at what are the models to work, the first question I always ask is that, have we created the right model to attract the youth to agriculture? What is the economic model of farming today? Today, an average farmer ends in a year about 1,800 dollars in a year. No youth that is a graduate wants to end that. So, we first have to create a model that gets him at a minimum 10,000 dollars. And once we have that outcome, then we start to create the right incentive to attract the young talents to come in. Today, Africa, being in focus, has the first time ever where our farmers are educated, they have a phone, and they’re on the social network. It’s the first time it’s ever happened. But we still treat them and transact with them like we did 30 years ago. So, we need to really start to think about that. The way we look at it at AFEX is think about it as you’re a member of a loyalty program of an airline. So, when a farmer is a member of the AFEX Network, he has access to shared services. So, first is, he can get access to a loan to produce, he has products at the right time, he can get access to markets, he can get access to store his bags of products in storage. So, that infrastructure that connects him, it enhances his productivity, creates a determined market, gives them the best price available, is provided for him by being a member of that. That’s how we really look at it. And then, trying to ensure that we can move them from that income of about 8,800 to 4,000, where they start to save and start to invest, get a new land, start building their house, and then really, really looking for how we can crack that model that promises 10,000 dollars’ income to everybody coming in.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] From what you’re saying, Ayo, this is all about modernizing the sector and bringing it up to date to today’s world. On that point, I’m going to bring Divya in because the conversation isn’t just about men in this. I’ve lived in India where I’ve seen many women work the fields. Women do play a big role in farming across the world and are perhaps not always acknowledged, are they, Divya? Tell us about the work that you do to overcome some of the challenges that women in farming face when it comes to getting less support, lower wages, and being less visible?
[S. Divyadharshini] In India, agriculture employs still 80% of women in the labor force. A lot of studies suggest that in any country where the labor force participation increases, it not merely improves the rural economy, but also improves the economy of the nation as a whole. In India, if you see, women contribute not only as laborers in agriculture culture, but as cultivators. But of late, the government policies have ensured that women participate and involve themselves into rural entrepreneurship based on agri-based businesses. So, what has the government of India done in a lot of programs by itself and in partnership with international agencies like the World Bank, has been to ensure to empower women in creating a lot of livelihood initiatives and creating and promoting entrepreneurship. So, what happens by this is just that we enable women to have access to markets, access to formal financial institutions, and the fundings available there. And also, we have access to a lot of trainings that facilitate their skill building. But all of this encompasses to ensure their skilling is enhanced, they have increased opportunities, and all the gender-based roles are not stereotyped and broken. So, women have started to be seen not merely as in jobs which were women-oriented, but they have broken barriers. They are rising up. And also, thanks to policies of the government of India, that it has ensured that women grow out of rural economies and stopped migration also to a little extent.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you, Divya. Ishmael, I’m going to bring you in. You connect farmers through agricultural unions across borders. We’ve talked about the role of empowering women. We’ve talked about the role of technology. How do those two things play out in the work that you do?
[Ishmael Daniso Sunga] I think they are very important. Technology, policy, and innovation in general is what drives change at scale and at speed, which is what we need, rather than doing things on a piecemeal basis as they normally do. But I think the point of connecting farmers across the borders is important because farmers are essentially facing similar problems, both large and in scale. They might differ in terms of intensity, and therefore there’s need to talk as one. Also, it’s a bit of an irony that, although farmers are the largest segment populations in most of the developing countries, and also that they produce the food that we all eat, and which underscores how important they are, they still remain the most undernourished, and they also still remain the poorest. I think that is a very bad indictment into the kind of agriculture that we do, both for young farmers, for women farmers. How is it possible that they are the engine of nutrition, the engines of development, the engines of everything, and they still remain the poorest? So, there’s something to do about how we do development, in my view. This is about power imbalances, whether talking of women, or talking of young farmers, of a general farmer, between the different actors in the value chain. It’s about the distribution of risk and reward across the entire chain. That lowers most of the risk to the primary producers where the farmers sit, and also the lowest return there. As the risk profile reduces, as you go up the value chain, you find that also the reward profile increases. So, until and unless we deal with the balance of power and the governance of value chains, we are going to remain as we are. I think it’s important. If we speak of a new generation of farmers, which is fundamentally important for many reasons, we really have to talk about entrepreneurship. And when we talk about entrepreneurship, it’s not everyone’s fault. We really need to segregate and differentiate the different types of farmers. About 25% of the surplus that comes from agriculture essentially is accounted for by... I mean, about 100% accounted by 25%. So, entrepreneurship has to be targeted to those that have the capacity to do that. We’ve tested it and it works. I can pick up some of the things later on. Thanks. Over to you.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Really interesting points. I think you summed some of it up by that stark assessment that actually some of the people who make the food that we all eat are among the poorest in the world, and the most undernourished in the world. And that is quite a stark statement. Minister Diagne, what can governments do to ensure that the people who are making the food for us are getting the proper nourishment, and getting the food that they are making themselves, and also that they are getting the wages and the right prices for what they produce? What can your government and others be doing?
[Mabouba Diagne] Look, please allow me to first echo what President Ajay talked about, this World Bank concept. You know, getting everybody under the same roof is of paramount importance that would help government not only to get the things right, but also drive the policies, and also create the right incentive. Today, if you see the World Bank Group, within the World Bank Group, you have MIGA that can play a tremendous role of helping government to derisk. You have IFC that could support the private sector, where government will be unlocking potentials of private-public partnerships. You have the Bank itself, and you have also the government budget. By combining all those sources plus insurance coming under the credit insurance scheme, you have now all the ingredients that government would access to keep a ready meal to support small-scale farmers, to get access, good certified seeds, good agri-inputs, mechanization, capacity building, and leapfrogging using technology to enable to produce food not only at the most competitive cost prices, because without competitiveness, without productivity, we will keep on putting money without solving the problem. This is number one. Number two, and also pushing African governments to put the money, and I will say most of the money, where the priorities are. We are driving to solve many, many problems, but it’s like giving aspirin to somebody who is sick. I strongly believe that by putting the right amount of money into the right sector and bringing one World Bank Group, bringing the private sector could unlock many, many opportunities and solving the problem in the most sustainable manner.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you for your thoughts there, Minister. I’m going to bring Ayo back in because, again, the point that Ishmael made rings true in terms of the work that you do. If the wages aren’t attractive, if people aren’t really seeing farming as a viable future, you’re working with young farmers. How do you attract them to the profession? Often, it’s an ancestral thing, it’s handed down. But now there are young farmers who are looking away, they’re looking at other avenues to make their money. What are you doing to say to people, “No, this is a viable business, this is a viable livelihood”?
[Ayodeji Balogun] It really comes down to productivity. If you look at the McKinsey report on food on Africa, it says that we can very easily in a very few years increase food production and the value creation by 150%. Out of that, a 100% increase comes from just the increase in yields. First is, what inputs do the farmers need? Giving them the right combination for their plot for the crop they’re producing in that geographic zone. The second one is, what is the access? A lot of farmers know how to farm. They know they need to buy this volume, but they don’t have the cash to get in. So, their income then comes at very low because of the yield. Just getting that access to them at the right time, it helps them increase. The third is climate, right? How can they be more adapted for the climatic changes that are happening? Places you see that... I was in Côte d'Ivoire a few weeks ago, and then you’ll see that the South-Eastern part of the country, grill, cocoa, 20, 30 years ago. In the last 20 years, it was the South’s central part. But the most productive zone today is the South-Eastern’s zone. Every 15, 20 years, you see a shift. The question is that in 20 years from now, maybe Liberia will be the largest grower of cocoa, primarily because of climatic reasons. How can we help the farmers adapt better, grow the right crops, do the innovation at the molecular level of the seeds to be able to adapt to those changes? Those are three things I think, both short and medium term, we can ensure that farmers’ income increase. One last thing is a big point around how do we organize farmers. The biggest challenge with our food systems in Africa is that farmers with the size of a football field grow 80% of our farm. If you think you’re flying of any other country, you see large parcels from the plain. In Africa, it’s the opposite of that. How do we bring in solutions that can provide and reach these farmers at scale, with the right impact, but efficiently and commercially? Part of what we’ve seen is that we need to really think about are farmer organizations the model of the future? Or are they what we call “farmer aggregation companies,” where you see SMEs that bring in innovation, bring inclusive finance, bring in technology, and reach those farmers at scale? How can we start to allocate resources to see more growth in this area. Thank you.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thanks, Ayo. Ishmael. I’m going to bring you in in a second, but I’m just going to get Divya to give us the South Asian perspective on that very point, which is, how do you encourage young people, country like India, where there’s lots of educated young people who are looking for work? How do you encourage them to get into farming and make it an attractive proposition in the next century?
[S. Divyadharshini] In fact, in India, a lot of projects have given focus to farming, but also, more importantly, focus to farming-based entrepreneurship. As the Minister spoke about how do we bring focus? Because what’s happening is that farming is happening in rural areas, but the processing is happening in peri-urban or urban areas. If you can actually develop an ecosystem, a comprehensive ecosystem of value addition in agriculture in rural areas, that’s how you stop migration, you create the ecosystem, and also ensure that rural economy actually is empowered. One of the projects that we are implementing in India is a Tamil Nadu Rural Transformation Project. It envisages to create an ecosystem, a comprehensive ecosystem, enabling the rural economy, which the President of the World Bank Group in the morning talked about, creating an ecosystem which facilitates agribusinesses. What do we do? We empower to venture into enterprising. We empower them to access to formal financial institutions for finance. We empower market access to them. We break gender stereotypes and ensure that what existed as enterprises, which only men do operate in, have been broken and shattered. For example, if I can tell, in a small backward district in Tamil Nadu, in India, called Ramanathapuram district, you see women through the project having capacity building, given skilling, and they have ventured into construction. So, they have secured contracts and building buildings today. They are no more cultivators, they are no more laborers. So, that’s what a government policy and facilitation and capacity building will do to break these barriers. Second thing is that how do we capacitate them? In rural areas, I spoke about creating an entrepreneurial economy, so that’s what we have in India and Tamil Nadu, [we have] created living all women producer collectives. Again, these producer collectives ensure decision making. Women take best decision suited to them. Men do not come and take decisions in these enterprises. So, that’s how empowerment starts. And once we start empowerment in this way in rural economy, I think they will lead on from there. They will lift our hands and walk upfront from there on. [Applause]
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Really inspiring work that you’re doing on the ground there in Tamil Nadu, Divya. Ishmael, we’ve talked a lot about the need for change, whether it’s technology, whether it’s giving women a greater voice. You represent unions, millions of farmers. There must be resistance to change. Nobody likes change, do they, Ishmael? What are they saying to you about some of the challenges that they want addressed before there’s wholesale change?
[Ishmael Daniso Sunga] Thank you. Maybe let me just start by addressing a couple of matters arising from the two responses. Based on the work that we are doing, we really have to change the way that we approach the issue of attracting the young into agriculture. I think we are going about it completely the wrong way, in my view, in my experience. We can’t sell agriculture. Don’t sell agriculture. Don’t sell for me. Sell opportunities for entrepreneurship. That’s what you need to sell. Farming is not very attractive when you see it, but when we understand the entrepreneurial opportunities that are bound, you get the young guys excited, and they are already excited. There’s a mass of them that we work with, and they were not persuaded to go into it. And interestingly, most of them are not coming from the farming sector themselves. They are coming from ICT, from pharmaceuticals, you name it. They saw the opportunity, and they are going for it in all manner and sizes. Interestingly, some are even going into adaptation and mitigation. But then they’re not talking about climate change. They’re talking about profits in adaptation and mitigation. So, let’s not sell problems, sell opportunities. Don’t sell adaptation, don’t sell mitigation, sell entrepreneurial opportunities, entrepreneurship opportunities in that. They’ll go for it. We are not asking for finance yet. We have a new generation of what we are calling agripreneurs in Southern Africa, and they’re shining their port free, and they’re doing novel practices, and they’re driven by ambition to get profit. So, if you don’t put profits at the center of it, the other things that happen, nutrition, climate change, adaptation, mitigation, become core benefits. We are selling core benefits instead of selling the real thing. I think we really need to look at the way that we design things. The second point really is, let’s also look at, for instance, there is a young lady who is from Malawi who is doing a simple thing, making honey out of bees, of course. And yet, she has made things that are fascinating to us, that she has actually run out of trees. She’s renting trees from neighbors and paying them every month with cash as well as with honey. And she really wants to do a million trees. You can put that on a digital platform. You can begin... You see, we talk about approaching farmers. Farmers should be approaching businesses. I think we also need to shift it. It’s not about farmers being approached. Why should they be approached all the time? Of course, there is a segment that needs to be approached, but it’s time that we harness the power of digital technology to aggregate, which is at the core of farmers’ problems, fragmentation, and begin to make a business proposal to the business rather than them coming to us. For me, the opportunities are limitless. It’s only that we are investing in the wrong things. We should be investing in entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is not about money, it’s not about technology, it’s not about seed, it’s not about the market, it’s about an idea, it’s about something. We are training them in confidence. Confidence is resulting in employment. They are the next generation of employers, not of employees. Also, let’s change narrative. There’s so much to say about this topic. Unfortunately, we don’t have time.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Unfortunately, we don’t. I could listen to you all day. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] I could listen to all of you all day. Thank you so much. I think you all agree. Really, really insightful. The point you made about the small honey producer. Absolutely right, isn’t it? It just sometimes just gets down to simple examples like the milk producers, like the ladies that you work with, like the young entrepreneurs. Really, really fascinating discussion. Unfortunately, I’ve been told we have to wrap or I would continue on. But thanks to all of you for sharing your insights. We appreciate it. [Applause] [Ayodeji Balogun] Thank you. [Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you. Now, we do have one more panel, so do stay with us if you can. We’re going to discuss now the environmental dimensions when it comes to agriculture and food. Of course, we’ve discussed the challenges of climate change in a little bit already. Now, let’s look at some figures, though. The world’s agriculture and food produce more greenhouse gas emissions than you may think. A third of global emissions. That’s more than emissions from all of the world’s electricity and heating combined. Farming does lead to deforestation, and deforestation makes up around 11% of total CO2 emissions. Well, 90% of emissions from deforestation are caused by expanding cropland and livestock pastures. But if investment in green initiatives is increased to around 260 billion US dollars a year, then current agrifood emissions could halve by 2030. That could, of course, help to reach that 2050 target for net zero. Well, it’s thought that the payoff could be huge, as much as, I’ll wait for it to come up, 4.3 trillion dollars by the next decade. That’s a 16 to one return on investment in health, economic, and environmental benefits. There are economic benefits, even though there are climate challenges. To discuss that in a bit more detail, let me introduce our final panelists, Rania Al-Mashat, Minister of Planning, Economic Development and International Cooperation for Egypt. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] Hello there. Hi. Welcome to the stage. And Simone Tebet, Minister of Planning and Budgeting of Brazil. Nice to meet you. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] Just to remind you that there will be a translation for Minister Thibet. We’ve been discussing climate change throughout this morning, but let’s dig into it in a bit more detail. I’ll start with you, Minister Tebet. What Brazil faces reflects the dilemma for other emerging economies in the world right now, trying to balance economic development and growth with environmental sustainability, particularly in light of Brazil’s efforts to preserve the Amazon forest. How do you tackle that balance and get it right?
[Simone Tebet] Good morning. Nice to meet you. It’s a pleasure to be here. My translator is not working, but I think that I understood the question. We need to remember Brazil is at the center of attention. We are going to be hosting the G20, COP, the next COP, as well as the BRICS encounter. Now, my Ministry has an important mission in planning. We asked a very simple question throughout the country for midterm planning through 2027. “What Brazil do you want to have for the next four years?” The answer across the board in the five different areas that the Brazilian people spoke to, the gender issue, children and adolescents, race, original peoples, and sustainability. Now, on the digital platform, the most voted program is what is we are going to specifically do for energy transition and climate change. Now, the midterm planning for Brazil that has been done and decided on by the Brazilian society, of the 88 large-scale programs of the budget, more than 50 are focused on sustainability. I’m a governor of a number of development banks, and we approved the projects to support states and cities in Brazil. For the first time, we have green indicators that we use to approve the projects under the sustainability program. On that, I would like to say that the IDB and the World Bank are together. They have the Amazonia Forever program and the Living Amazon program, which tomorrow, here at the World Bank, we are going to be making announcements on that and signing documents so that we can foster development in the states of the Amazon region. Minister Haddad, right now, as we speak, is announcing the digital platform of our ecological transition program, which for the first time, working with the other branches of government, the three branches of government, signed on to a commitment of an ecological transformation policy, enabling us to have sustainable financing, financing for circular economy, bioeconomy, and green infrastructure. That is how we are fully aware of Brazil’s responsibility. We are very optimistic that together, we are going to make progress in this area.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you very much, Minister Tebet, for that. I’m going to bring Minister Al-Mashat into the conversation. Now, at the beginning of this morning’s discussion. We heard from Ndidi and Anne talking about how food needs to be at the top of the climate agenda. You’ve hosted a COP summit yourself in Sharm El Sheik. Food is part of the agenda, but it’s not right at the top, is it? How do you get it higher up?
[Rania Al-Mashat] Well, thank you very much. I think absolutely, mitigation has always been at the forefront of discussing climate change. The energy transition has taken very much the priority in terms of discussions. When we hosted COP27 in Sharm El Sheik, we wanted to push more on adaptation and resilience because when we talk about adaptation, we’re talking about food systems, water systems, because both are interlinked. So, food security, water security. I believe that it’s definitely pushed forward, particularly when we see alliances, just as the Minister mentioned with what’s happening with the G20. In our case, also, there was the issuance of the Loss and Damage Fund, which again takes a look at the erosion of land for food in Africa and other nations. I believe that I would say, no, it’s not on the top of the agenda. It’s moved quite a bit. With the increase in food prices globally, the importance of trying to ensure that food security is secured and reaches people at affordable levels, I think this is a priority for the global institutions as well as for countries. The idea is, how are we able to do this collaboratively at a way that is the cheapest possible when it comes to financing, but also with respect to technology transfer.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you so much, Minister. Minister Tebet, I hope that your backpack is now working. You heard just there the conversation about trying to make sure that food goes higher up the agenda. You’re going to be hosting a summit in the future in Brazil. How are you going to put food at the heart of that?
[Simone Tebet] Now, in July, we launched the Global Alliance against Hunger [and Poverty] in the city of Rio. President Lula stressed the role of leadership and Brazil’s commitment to eradicate hunger in the world. He set that as a top policy agenda of the state of Brazil, not of the government, but of Brazil. I’m certain that with everyone’s cooperation, we will make strides in that regard, especially as regards all the different experiences that we can learn from in other countries. In the case of Brazil and concrete policies, we have a lot to present on alternatives out of the countries might be interested in and the other way around as well. I’m certain that there are success stories in India, Egypt that we can all learn from and avail ourselves of. Now, in the Global South, these experiences are going to be very important to that have a basket of policies and that each country can find among that whole host of options, something that works, obviously, with sustainable financing or without sustainable financing, specific funds made available. There’s no way we’re going to force ahead on this. But the G20 has prioritized there being a sustainable world and a fair world. In the case of Brazil, I can just give you two examples. Quality, free, school, lunch, subsidized agriculture, and our “Bolsa Familia,” that is a food subsidy program that helps, money, that is, cash transfers to people living under the poverty line for women and so forth to be able to go into the labor market.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you very much, Minister. I’m going to bring you in on that point. The Minister there just talked about the benefits, and the way that you can work with the private sector, and what initiatives you can bring in. We’ve discussed that throughout the morning, but I would like to get your perspective. You led the, I quote, “Nexus of Water, Food, and Energy” to try and attract private finance. Tell us about that platform and what it achieved.
[Rania Al-Mashat] Country platforms are today being discussed in conversations related to climate and development that countries need to put together their strategies with respect to projects that would push adaptation, resilience, mitigation. In our case, the nexus of Water, Food, and energy, the NWFE program. There’s a food pillar and a water pillar. In our food pillar, IFAD, our partner is taking the lead. And there, the idea is projects which are across, we have the Delta and we have Upper Egypt. There is the relationship between the food systems and the irrigation systems. A key part of trying to push these projects, particularly, as I mentioned, on the technology side, is to invite the private sector so that they are the ones with the technological advancements and so forth… Basically, within the country platform, concessional finance and grants are provided so that we can derisk some of the private sector investments in these very important projects, i.e. sectors, food and water. I believe that what we’re doing with our development partners is a proper design of the project itself. A lot of consultations internally with ministries involved. Sometimes regulations need to be a little bit changed to be able to allow for more participation. So, that’s one key element of prioritizing. As the Minister mentioned, in planning, projects that will be implemented, what budgets are allocated to that project. In our case, we have 40% of the public investment that has to be green. So that includes both agriculture, infrastructure, energy, etcetera. So, these are all tools which, again, try to address the points which are in the country platform as well.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thank you. Minister Tebet, we heard there, and you discussed before, some of your plans, some of the agendas that governments can bring in, working with the private sector. But it does come back to something that President Banga mentioned at the start of this conversation, which is how you empower the farmers, the small farmers, on the ground who work out of small producer organizations and cooperatives. How do you do that?
[Simone Tebet] I think that this is a fundamental question, especially in my country. Now, there’s a figure that we all know about in Brazil, more than 70% of the basic foodstuffs that we consume, especially beans, produce, legumes, and fruits, and vegetables, don’t come from the large-scale agribusiness. They come from family farms. This is essential in our basic diagnosis of our situation. That means that because of that, we have to have differentiated policies with lower rates for the small landowner to be able to produce, and to make sure that that product never is missing on the shelves, and that it doesn’t suffer a price spikes because of inflation, so people can actually afford it. Now, in Brazil, Brazil feeds and produces enough food for four “Brazils.” We don’t have to cut any more trees down. We can, without expanding the land of traditional agriculture, we can feed up to a billion people with our current production. There is a host of measures we’ve undertaken to that effect. Something I would like to say is how can the development banks help? They’re already helping with their expertise by drafting, putting together more efficient, effective programs, and with financial partnerships. Now, I would just like to stress that what’s going to be key in this ecological transition policy is that there be sustainable financing, that the development banks, the World Bank, and all the other development banks can be partners of Brazil, of the Global South and all the developing countries.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Thank you for those thoughts there, Minister Tebet. I’m going to end by asking you the last question, Minister Al-Mashat. We talk about empowering farmers on the ground. We talked about it with Divya when it comes to India, and I’d like to get your thoughts from your perspective in Egypt. But how do you bring women into this discussion?
[Rania Al-Mashat] Taking a look at, in our case, different governor rates, there’s holdings by small farmers. Consolidating that, giving their design programs that we have with World Food Programme, with others, where there’s a focus on how to design this for them, try to move from using diesel into solar panels for irrigation on the small holdings, and also the resistance of crops. There are targeted programs in different areas for that. Women are definitely part of the, I don’t want to say the equation, but part of the focus of these programs as well. For instance, when we take a look at some of the projects we have with USAID and others, there’s a focus on women cultivating certain products as inputs in a value chain. I’ll just take, for example, potatoes with one of the big companies. They are the ones who produce, and then the private sector company buys it from them. So having supply chains which are well identified to encourage women in this supply chain is something that has to be done in a mindful way. Also, when successes happen, it opens up the door for more. We have very designated and important programs that can be scaled, and they’re used also in other countries.
[Rajini Vaidyanathan] Okay, thanks to both of you. Unfortunately, we’ve run out of time, but again, really interesting to get these first-hand accounts and insights about what you’re doing on the ground and what your priorities are. It’s been great to talk to you both. Thank you very much. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] I’ll just give you... Yeah. Okay, if you want to go that way. Thank you. Well, unfortunately, that wraps up our discussion today, but I don’t know about you. I think it was absolutely fascinating with loads of really personal takeaways. We looked at how food and agriculture might serve as an engine for sustainable jobs and growth. We’ve heard about at how farmers need to be empowered on the ground, including, of course, female farmers. We’ve looked at the role of government and how you balance that with the role of the private sector. We’ve talked about the importance of doing all of this while you have to balance the need for healthy and nutritious food, and of course, the challenges of climate change. Once again, we’d like to thank all of the panelists who are behind the stage here for all of their time today. Please, give them another round of applause. They can hear you. [Applause] [Rajini Vaidyanathan] Some have traveled from all corners of the world. I’d like to thank all of you who are watching online. And last but not least, all of you who have stayed throughout this discussion and have been in the room with us this morning. You can watch the session replayed, or you can send it to your friends, on live.worldbank.org, and you can continue sharing your comments and thoughts on our hashtag, #WBGMeetings. That’s it for now. Thanks very much. [Music]
