Rethinking Debt: Financing the Future Amid Crisis

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Rethinking Debt: Financing the Future Amid Crisis

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  • 00:00 [UPBEAT MUSIC]
  • 00:29 2021 Spring Meetings day two
  • 00:32 [LIVE: WASHINGTON, DC] and we're live once more from the World Bank group headquarters
  • 00:34 in Washington, DC.
  • 00:36 [SRIMATHI SRIDHAR; WORLD BANK GROUP] I'm Srimathi Sridhar and we're about two minutes away
  • 00:39 from our headline event on debt.
  • 00:41 But before we launch into that, here's my colleague, Paul Blake,
  • 00:43 with a quick look at what you can expect from today's live event
  • 00:46 and how you can get involved.
  • 00:48 [UPBEAT MUSIC]
  • 00:53 The World Bank group IMF meetings are virtual once more
  • 00:57 and while our buildings are relatively empty when compared to past years,
  • 01:00 you, connecting wherever you are,
  • 01:02 have more opportunity than ever to take part.
  • 01:05 For weeks we've been convening and recording in-depth conversations
  • 01:09 with some of the world's leading experts
  • 01:11 on the most urgent development issues of our time.
  • 01:15 Now for these Spring Meetings, we're proud to bring you four events
  • 01:19 that will play out over four days and cover four important themes,
  • 01:23 economic recovery, debt, climate, and vaccines.
  • 01:27 And while the main events are recorded,
  • 01:29 our subject matter experts are standing by live online right now,
  • 01:33 to answer your questions and share your comments.
  • 01:37 Hi I'm Nish Mescher, as each event plays
  • 01:39 my colleagues and I will be answering your questions
  • 01:42 in English, French, Spanish, and Arabic in the live chat at live.worldbank.org.
  • 01:47 And while you're here, please vote in our poll.
  • 01:49 There will be a new question every day.
  • 01:51 And after each event, we'll be back here live
  • 01:54 from our headquarters in Washington, DC.
  • 01:56 And on this socially distant set,
  • 01:58 we'll be putting some of the most popular questions that have come in online
  • 02:02 to senior World Bank Group leaders and experts.
  • 02:05 So what are you waiting for?
  • 02:06 Find all the details and share your perspective, live.worldbank.org.
  • 02:15 [JOIN THE CONVERSATION: #DEBT4DEV] And to have your say in today's event, use the hashtag "debt4dev."
  • 02:19 Now I'll be back here in about an hour's time
  • 02:21 for a live discussion with World Bank Group president David Malpass,
  • 02:24 featuring your questions.
  • 02:25 And I'll also share the results of today's poll and much more.
  • 02:28 I do hope you'll stick around for that.
  • 02:30 [MOMENTS AWAY: RETHINKING DEBT: FINANCING THE FUTURE AMID CRISIS] But now let's jump into today's program,
  • 02:32 Rethinking Debt: Financing the Future Amid Crisis
  • 02:36 hosted by the World Bank Group's Paul Blake.
  • 02:38 [UPBEAT MUSIC]
  • 02:40 [SPRING MEETINGS 2021 VIRTUAL WORLD BANK GROUP INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND]
  • 02:45 [MOUNTING DEBT]
  • 02:48 [RISK TO RECOVERY]
  • 02:52 [NEW SOLUTIONS]
  • 02:58 [RETHINKING DEBT: FINANCING THE FUTURE AMID CRISIS]
  • 03:06 [PAUL BLAKE; WORLD BANK GROUP] Hello everyone, welcome to Washington, DC.
  • 03:09 And welcome to the second day of our Spring Meetings in 2021.
  • 03:12 I'm Paul Blake coming to you from the atrium
  • 03:14 of the World Bank Group headquarters.
  • 03:16 And today the spotlight is on how we can help developing countries
  • 03:20 handle debt financing.
  • 03:22 Now, one year in, COVID-19 has aggravated debt distress
  • 03:25 in the poorest countries,
  • 03:26 and that could hurt their ability to finance their future.
  • 03:29 Reducing debt would allow countries
  • 03:31 to focus resources where they're really needed,
  • 03:33 on building a green, resilient, inclusive recovery.
  • 03:37 So what's the best way to do this?
  • 03:38 And how can governments finance development
  • 03:40 without sinking deeper into debt?
  • 03:42 And what can we learn from the past?
  • 03:44 Now over the next hour, we'll be joined by some top level guests
  • 03:47 and hear from people around the world directly affected by these issues.
  • 03:52 [UPBEAT MUSIC]
  • 03:53 [VIRTUAL SPRING MEETINGS 2021 COMING UP]
  • 03:56 [WHY UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT MATTERS, ZAINAB HARUNA; ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR]
  • 04:01 [RETHINKING DEBT: SUSTAINABLE SOLUTIONS FOR INCLUSIVE GROWTH]
  • 04:07 [VERA DAVES DE SOUSA; FINANCE MINISTER, REPUBLIC OF ANGOLA]
  • 04:12 [RETHINKING DEBT: THE PRIVATE SECTOR PERSPECTIVE]
  • 04:15 [JULIE MONACO; MANAGING DIRECTOR, CITI]
  • 04:18 [RETHINKING DEBT: THE IMPACT ON FUTURE GENERATIONS]
  • 04:23 [KEVIN WATKINS; CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SAVE THE CHILDREN]
  • 04:30 [TOWARD EFFICIENT DEBT REDUCTION]
  • 04:32 [K.Y. AMOAKO; PRESIDENT, AFRICAN CENTER FOR ECONOMIC TRANSFORMATION]
  • 04:35 [CARMEN REINHART; CHIEF ECONOMIST, WORLD BANK GROUP]
  • 04:39 Now before we dive in,
  • 04:40 a reminder that there are lots of ways for you to get involved in this event.
  • 04:44 We're streaming in English, French, Spanish, and Arabic
  • 04:47 [LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] on World Bank live and across our social media channels.
  • 04:50 World bank live is also where you'll find our experts
  • 04:53 poised to answer your questions in the live chat.
  • 04:55 And you can also upvote your favorite questions.
  • 04:58 We'll be putting some of those
  • 04:59 to the president of the World Bank Group, David Malpass,
  • 05:01 straight after this event.
  • 05:03 [#DEBT4DEV] So share your comments at any time using the hashtag "debt4dev."
  • 05:07 Before our first discussion, let's take a look at how government debt
  • 05:10 can affect the lives of everyday people for better or for worse.
  • 05:14 Here to explain is One Young World ambassador, Zainab Haruna.
  • 05:17 She's the founder of Decipher Solutions, a youth led social enterprise
  • 05:21 in her home country of Nigeria.
  • 05:26 [ZAINAB HARUNA; ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR, FOUNDER, DECIPHER SOLUTIONS] When you or I need to buy a house,
  • 05:28 you might apply for a loan,
  • 05:30 Governments do the same and borrow money from different lenders
  • 05:34 to build roads, schools, and hospitals.
  • 05:37 It adds up to an enormous amount of money,
  • 05:40 but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
  • 05:43 How countries invest and handle their debts
  • 05:46 can determine whether their people thrive or languish.
  • 05:50 Let's look at why that is.
  • 05:53 Meet Emma, a young girl who lives in a rural village.
  • 05:57 Her country is not rich, but the government is investing in its people.
  • 06:02 Her school has got a new computers and hired skill teachers.
  • 06:06 Emma likes coding and discovers her talents for programming games and websites.
  • 06:11 She wins a scholarship and goes to college.
  • 06:14 After the degree in computer science, she gets a loan and starts a business.
  • 06:20 Her company thrives and employs dozens of people.
  • 06:24 What made it possible for Emma to succeed?
  • 06:28 Every step of the way the government invested in the future.
  • 06:32 It supported Emma and others like her with a robust education budget
  • 06:37 that paid for her teachers, technology, and scholarships.
  • 06:41 The country had to borrow from different lenders, but the investment paid off.
  • 06:46 It led to growth, jobs, and prosperity for its people, like Emma.
  • 06:52 It's when a country is burdened with unsustainable levels of debt
  • 06:56 that problems begin.
  • 06:58 Developing countries had a record $55 trillion in debts
  • 07:03 even before COVID-19 hit.
  • 07:05 That sustainability is a growing concern as countries respond to the pandemic,
  • 07:11 struggling with urgent financing needs.
  • 07:13 Now imagine Emma's life again.
  • 07:17 Her country borrows to fund an ambitious agenda,
  • 07:21 taking out loans from private predators and all of us who are eager to lend.
  • 07:25 But interest rates are high
  • 07:27 and the amounts and terms of the loans are not transparent.
  • 07:32 This kicks off a cycle of mounting bills
  • 07:35 with less money to spend on projects, including education.
  • 07:40 Then the pandemic derails the budget.
  • 07:43 Because the country now has a high debt burden,
  • 07:46 norms for regular citizens also come with higher interest rates.
  • 07:50 Emma's school never gets the extra investment in teachers and computers
  • 07:54 and she never learns to code.
  • 07:57 Without a scholarship, she misses the opportunity to attend college.
  • 08:01 She can't take out a loan and never starts a business.
  • 08:04 Emma and her family stay poor.
  • 08:07 It's a story of unfulfilled potential
  • 08:09 that's all too common in many countries around the world.
  • 08:13 When countries can finance the future in a sustainable way
  • 08:17 and invest in their people, everyone wins.
  • 08:21 That's why debt matters for every single one of us.
  • 08:27 [BISHKEK, KYRGYZ REPUBLIC] I am Julie in Bishkek Kyrgyz Republic,
  • 08:30 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 08:35 Well as Zainab explained, how governments manage debt
  • 08:38 is an issue that affects all of us well into our future.
  • 08:41 Many developing countries were struggling with debt even before COVID-19,
  • 08:46 but the pandemic has made a bad situation worse.
  • 08:49 Low-income countries in particular
  • 08:51 now face debt levels that simply aren't sustainable.
  • 08:54 World Bank Group president David Malpass invited three important thought leaders
  • 08:58 to share their ideas on how to better manage debt crises quickly and efficiently
  • 09:03 to get the world back on track for resilient recovery.
  • 09:06 For the first in this series of flagship conversations on rethinking debt
  • 09:10 he spoke to Angolan finance minister, Vera Daves.
  • 09:13 [RETHINKING DEBT: A CONVERSATION WITH VERA DAVES DE SOUSA]
  • 09:18 [FINANCE MINISTER, REPUBLIC OF ANGOLA]
  • 09:23 Thank you very much, Paul.
  • 09:25 [DAVID MALPASS; PRESIDENT, WORLD BANK GROUP] I'm here with our first guest,
  • 09:27 Minister Daves De Sousa, the finance minister of Angola.
  • 09:33 Vera, very nice to see you.
  • 09:36 Angola has gone through a reprofiling of its debt.
  • 09:39 I wondered if you could describe the impact of debt on the people of Angola.
  • 09:44 Why was the reprofiling important?
  • 09:46 and some of the... how did it go?
  • 09:48 What were some of the challenges?
  • 09:52 [VERA DAVES DE SOUSA; FINANCE MINISTER, REPUBLIC OF ANGOLA] Thank you very much, President Malpass.
  • 09:55 Thank you, David, for this opportunity for being here
  • 09:57 and to share with you and with audience our experience.
  • 10:05 Yes, we were suffering the consequences of the pandemic.
  • 10:13 Of course, we were coming from a starting point that was not easy.
  • 10:18 We were dealing with the recessions for so many years
  • 10:22 and the pandemics just make it worse for the Angolan economy.
  • 10:27 And, as you know, highly dependent on oil,
  • 10:31 so anything that affects the oil sector hits us very, very hard,
  • 10:39 and that reflects on our stock off the debts
  • 10:45 because it reflects on the different indicators.
  • 10:49 The growth, decrease even more our international reserves,
  • 10:56 decrease even more with impact on the exchange rate
  • 11:01 and impact on the debt that is linked to the exchange rate.
  • 11:07 So a set of events put us on a very stressful situation
  • 11:13 that required from our side to work on different fronts
  • 11:22 on the revenue side, on the expenditure side, but also on the debt side.
  • 11:27 We got important assistance from institutions as World Bank and IMF.
  • 11:35 The G20, the DSSI initiative was very useful,
  • 11:40 but also we talk with our main creditors
  • 11:44 to find a solution that enables us to have more breathing space
  • 11:49 on the medium term and to release these financial resources
  • 11:54 to address the social needs on health and on financial support to the families.
  • 12:03 As you know, with your support,
  • 12:06 we had implemented a program to provide financial assistance
  • 12:11 to the families that are more vulnerable.
  • 12:14 So everything that gives us breathing space, that gives us more financing space
  • 12:21 to address the social needs of our population,
  • 12:24 we are doing, and we are doing with your help.
  • 12:30 Thank you, and so the stock of external debt
  • 12:34 went up from some $33 billion to over $50 billion, so it's a sizeable amount.
  • 12:40 I wonder about the interest rate on that and what will happen.
  • 12:44 So you're having some temporary relief now.
  • 12:48 Does that run out and what will be the consequences
  • 12:51 or what's the interest rate that you expect over the coming decade?
  • 12:57 Yes, we can look at the external position and the overall picture of the debt.
  • 13:08 Regarding the external position, we've increased almost $18 billion since 2015.
  • 13:15 But if we look to the, all the debt, we will see that from 2017 to 2020,
  • 13:25 we see a decrease from 88 billion to 68.8 billion.
  • 13:32 So we still have challenges to manage, but we think we are on the right path,
  • 13:40 especially because we are seeing since 2018
  • 13:44 the gross financing needs also decreasing.
  • 13:47 We are being able to pay more expenditures with our tax collection.
  • 13:51 That is good news since 2018, 60% of...
  • 13:57 we see 60% of reductions on our gross financial needs.
  • 14:04 So I think we are on the right track, we did well expanding the tax base.
  • 14:09 We need to keep working on improving the quality of expenditure.
  • 14:15 We need to keep working on building the confidence
  • 14:19 on the macroeconomic indicators, on the commitment of the government,
  • 14:26 with the reforms to make sure
  • 14:30 that the perception of risk of the country decreases.
  • 14:36 That it's important also to decrease the interest rates.
  • 14:40 And we are also intending to continue negotiating with our multilateral partners
  • 14:48 to give privilege on concessional loans,
  • 14:53 to address the financial needs that we still need to address.
  • 14:59 But we really believe that...
  • 15:04 to deal with all these challenges in a sustainable way,
  • 15:11 is to make sure that we diversify our economy,
  • 15:15 that we break our dependency on oil, that we grow in a inclusive manner
  • 15:22 to make sure that we see more jobs coming, we see more tax collection coming,
  • 15:28 and we also increase our ability
  • 15:32 to ask less financing lines even in concessional terms,
  • 15:38 that we are able to collect more money to fund our activities.
  • 15:44 And if that happened, the interest rates we will decrease,
  • 15:48 so that's a medium-term goal, but we need to keep working on that
  • 15:54 to make sure that in the short term with solutions like the common framework
  • 15:59 that will be very useful.
  • 16:03 We can deal with this situation in the short term
  • 16:07 and in the medium term with the economy growing,
  • 16:10 we can be able to get access to more funds
  • 16:15 without increasing our stock, the debt stock.
  • 16:22 Very interesting.
  • 16:24 What a big part of your debt stock is collateralized oil financing.
  • 16:31 But I understood you to say, as you diversify the Angolan economy,
  • 16:36 I imagine it will be important...
  • 16:39 How you can have commercial bank financing for businesses
  • 16:43 via the shorter-term kinds of financing?
  • 16:47 How is that going, your relations with commercial banks?
  • 16:51 Are they staying engaged or is that a challenge as well?
  • 17:01 We feel that they still engage.
  • 17:05 We often receive a lot of proposals to finance specific projects.
  • 17:12 It's our initiative to say come down.
  • 17:18 We want to prioritize,
  • 17:24 to give more importance to the private sector to the direct investment.
  • 17:29 And we want to take off our foot from the accelerator regarding financial lines.
  • 17:36 So yes, we feel that the commercial banks
  • 17:38 are still interested to give financing to Angola,
  • 17:44 but Angola wants to move on with a strategy
  • 17:48 of combining getting funds from the private sector
  • 17:54 to engage with us and participate with us
  • 17:59 on the grow, on exploring the opportunities that we have in our country,
  • 18:05 and to find funds through concessional terms
  • 18:12 that sometimes are not acceptable to commercial banks.
  • 18:17 So it's a process that in somehow it's painful
  • 18:24 because it's a different mindset and a different strategy
  • 18:31 that some of our partners start understanding,
  • 18:39 but at the beginning it was not easy to negotiate on those terms,
  • 18:45 but we still committed with that.
  • 18:47 We still committed with the private investment.
  • 18:49 We still committed with getting financing on concessional terms,
  • 18:53 and we are resisting to sign contracts on commercial terms
  • 19:01 that we understand will add stress to our debt situation.
  • 19:09 I understand.
  • 19:10 And so these are very challenging times for countries because of the pandemic,
  • 19:15 because of the slowdown in the global economy
  • 19:17 or worse, the deep recession for many countries.
  • 19:20 And then the challenge of rebuilding into the future
  • 19:24 in ways that will make it all sustainable.
  • 19:27 So I want to really thank you for joining today
  • 19:32 and good luck with all of the challenges facing Angola.
  • 19:36 Thank you, Vera.
  • 19:40 A big thank you to David and Minister Vera Daves for our first discussion.
  • 19:44 We've got lots more great speakers lined up,
  • 19:47 but now here's another chance for you to get involved.
  • 19:50 We're asking you to vote in our special poll,
  • 19:52 and we want to get a sense of how you're responding to the pandemic.
  • 19:55 So our question is, following the COVID-19 crisis,
  • 19:59 what is your biggest financial priority?
  • 20:01 Is it A, to save for the future
  • 20:04 or B, make wise investments?
  • 20:07 Or is your priority to C, take out a loan,
  • 20:10 or lastly, will you be focusing on D, paying off debts.
  • 20:15 Now let's go through that one more time.
  • 20:16 Following the COVID-19 crisis, what is your biggest financial priority?
  • 20:21 Is it A, to save for the future?
  • 20:24 B, make wise investments?
  • 20:26 Is your priority to C, take out a loan,
  • 20:30 or lastly, will you be focusing on D, paying off debts?
  • 20:34 You can cast your vote at live.worldbank.org.
  • 20:38 And my colleague, Sri Sridhar, and I
  • 20:39 will be revealing the results of the poll live
  • 20:42 at the end of this program.
  • 20:43 Now, as we heard earlier from Angola,
  • 20:45 governments today are grappling with how to finance their future development
  • 20:49 while also supporting their economies through the current crisis.
  • 20:52 Everyday citizens face similar challenges.
  • 20:55 We wanted to hear from you.
  • 20:56 How are you financing your future?
  • 20:59 How does your government's debt
  • 21:00 affect your ability to achieve your financial goals?
  • 21:03 Young leaders and entrepreneurs from all over the world,
  • 21:06 sent us videos sharing their thoughts.
  • 21:08 Let's take a moment to hear what they have to say.
  • 21:13 [RONIC NGAMBWE; STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MARY WASHINGTON, USA] If I could finance my future,
  • 21:14 [D.R. CONGO] I would pursue a graduate degree and invest in a home.
  • 21:18 [VIKTOR MITEVSKI; CO-FOUNDER, ASSOCIATION FOR RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS (ZMA)] If I could finance my future, I would keep on investing in my own business.
  • 21:23 [ANOKA PRIMROSE ABEYRATHNE; SUSTAINABILITY SPECIALIST] I would be supporting more women entrepreneurs
  • 21:26 [ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR, SRI LANKA] through my extended business to empower themselves.
  • 21:30 [EGSHIGLEN ERDENEBAT; PROPERTY MANAGER, MONGOLIA] I will be able to open my business
  • 21:32 which will provide my family a better lifestyle and income.
  • 21:36 [KHERLENTUYA KHUKHUU; HR SPECIALIST, MONGOLIA] I would travel as many places around the world.
  • 21:39 [SANTIAGO CRESPO; ENTREPRENEUR, ARGENTINA] I would expand my business to create new jobs for others.
  • 21:43 [AMY MELKI; RESEARCH ANALYST, LEBANON] I would have peace of mind
  • 21:44 in overcoming the current Lebanese economic crisis.
  • 21:47 [JASON PAREJA JAUREGUI; ENGINEER AND ACTIVIST, ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR] I would get a student loan with a low interest rate
  • 21:50 [PERU] in order to afford my MBA studies.
  • 21:53 [EKIN KORKMAZ; BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AND SALES SPECIALIST, BEAM TECH COMPANY] Right now, my biggest financial goal is to save more.
  • 21:55 [SERGIO DAVID SILVA GUTIÉRREZ; IMPACT ENTREPRENEURSHIP ADVOCATE, COLOMBIA] It's to pay off my student loans.
  • 21:58 [JUBILANTÉ CUTTING; FOUNDER, DIGITIAL MEDIA ADVOCATE, GUYANA] To buy a home, a car, to save more and invest more.
  • 22:06 Now in his first interview,
  • 22:07 President Malpass heard about the challenges facing Angola
  • 22:10 as it battles with the pandemic,
  • 22:12 while also dealing with a very heavy debt burden.
  • 22:15 For his second conversation, he wanted to hear from the private sector
  • 22:19 and how it's responding to this challenge.
  • 22:21 Julie Monaco is the managing director of CITI.
  • 22:23 [RETHINKING DEBT: A CONVERSATION WITH JULIE MONACO; MANAGING DIRECTOR, CITI]
  • 22:33 Hi, I'm here with Julie Monaco, a managing director of CITI bank.
  • 22:37 She has a wealth of experience, decades in the field of international finance.
  • 22:44 And I wanted to really explore and understand better CITI's interaction
  • 22:49 as we explore the overall debt crisis.
  • 22:53 [WASHINGTON, DC, USA; MARYLAND, USA] So, Julie, I know you're an advisor to sovereigns
  • 22:57 or that's one of your roles.
  • 22:59 I wonder if you could go through the various roles
  • 23:01 or connections that CITI bank as a whole has with developing countries
  • 23:06 and especially with the poorest countries.
  • 23:09 [JULIE MONACO; MANAGING DIRECTOR, CITI] So David, we at CITI are the largest provider
  • 23:13 of debt underwriting for the EM sovereigns around the world.
  • 23:16 That is an area of great expertise and leadership from CITI for many decades.
  • 23:23 So we have tons of experience in working with sovereigns through restructurings.
  • 23:27 We have a sovereign rating advisory and a sovereign debt advisory team
  • 23:31 that gets involved with sovereigns that are facing debt distress.
  • 23:35 And we will work and we have had many, many years...
  • 23:38 My team, I should say, has, and the collective CITI team,
  • 23:41 has many years of experience of working in parallel
  • 23:44 with the IMF and with a sovereign and negotiating with private creditors.
  • 23:49 Most recently, we were in that position with the Ecuador restructuring.
  • 23:53 So as it relates to commercial bank lending, as you know,
  • 23:57 there is not a lot of traditional commercial bank lending
  • 24:01 from organizations like CITI or our peer institutions
  • 24:05 into the emerging market sovereigns.
  • 24:07 That is because of what happened in the '80s and '90s.
  • 24:10 Most of the commercial lending that would go...
  • 24:13 commercial bank lending that would happen with sovereigns
  • 24:16 is related to projects.
  • 24:18 And again, it's also tied to EIF type funds financing,
  • 24:23 where there is high alignment with the official community.
  • 24:25 Our lending portfolio into sovereigns
  • 24:28 is mostly focused on FX lines, trade lines,
  • 24:33 as well as EAF, which is export agency finance-backed lending
  • 24:39 from the official community, where the private sector and the public sector
  • 24:43 are very much aligned in that type of lending.
  • 24:46 So that is very different.
  • 24:47 And I think that the bank lending is very small
  • 24:51 compared to the overall official lending as well as the bonds market.
  • 24:57 That was great, and...
  • 24:59 People are very interested in the details of that.
  • 25:02 So as you think about Ecuador, it faced different types of debt
  • 25:05 and they were able to reprofile or restructure some parts of that debt.
  • 25:13 How does the change in contracts affect the country's ability
  • 25:19 or the outcome of those discussions?
  • 25:23 For example, in terms of either collateral or in terms of non-disclosure clause,
  • 25:28 what's changed over recent years in that regard?
  • 25:31 The role that CITI played in Ecuador...
  • 25:34 we were an advisor along with an independent advisor.
  • 25:38 We negotiated with the official creditors
  • 25:42 and we worked in parallel with the IMF and we worked with the bond holders.
  • 25:47 And I think that, I think that situation...
  • 25:52 I think Ecuador is a perfect example that the current process can work.
  • 25:57 And that when you look at a situation
  • 26:01 where the bond holders are willing to take a haircut, as they did.
  • 26:06 They are willing to do that when there is a level of transparency,
  • 26:10 when there is goodwill and the ability to show there are going to be changes
  • 26:16 and reforms and they get confidence in the data
  • 26:19 on how the country is going to move forward.
  • 26:21 I think we've seen time and time again, David,
  • 26:23 that there has been 17 Paris Club restructurings since 2010.
  • 26:28 Twelve of those involved mandatory inclusion of bond holders
  • 26:33 and bond holders are very willing to come to the table
  • 26:37 and restructure debt as long as there is that...
  • 26:41 One is that because of the way
  • 26:42 the more and more uptake of collective action clauses
  • 26:47 has made it easier to make those structurings happen on the bond side.
  • 26:51 Also, what you have is just an expectation.
  • 26:55 I think that it's understood in the bond markets
  • 26:58 that this type of restructuring is part of this asset class in the EM.
  • 27:03 And so I think that there's a level of acceptance there.
  • 27:05 But it also requires goodwill around how that restructuring gets done.
  • 27:10 It's different.
  • 27:12 The mechanism for restructuring the commercial bank debt
  • 27:16 is very different than the bond debt.
  • 27:19 And, as you know, in Ecuador, we restructured Ecuador.
  • 27:23 The bond holders took a cut,
  • 27:24 but nobody touched the official debt under that restructuring.
  • 27:27 And I actually, in preparation to talking to you about the benefits
  • 27:32 of the G20 common framework,
  • 27:34 I actually asked my team would that framework have changed anything
  • 27:39 about how we approached the restructuring in Ecuador?
  • 27:42 And the answer I got back was that potentially the G20 framework,
  • 27:48 because you have all the official creditors at the table
  • 27:52 and key official creditors that are not under the table
  • 27:54 under the Paris club like China,
  • 27:56 that potentially it could have sped up some of the negotiations
  • 28:01 on the official side.
  • 28:04 Let's stay on... Thank you for all of that.
  • 28:07 Let's stay on the common framework.
  • 28:09 So it's aimed at countries in debt distress
  • 28:14 and countries that are lower income than Ecuador.
  • 28:24 And so the constructive part that you described,
  • 28:26 that it brings together Paris Club creditors,
  • 28:29 the non Paris club official creditors, and also the private sector.
  • 28:33 So we're working currently with Chad, with Ethiopia,
  • 28:38 with Zambia who have requested common framework treatment.
  • 28:42 How do you see that playing out?
  • 28:43 Will it work, I wonder?
  • 28:48 I think, it certainly has the potential to work,
  • 28:52 and I think theoretically the common framework does make it better
  • 28:57 because... but there's conditions to that, right?
  • 29:00 There has to be better transparency.
  • 29:04 And there has to be complete transparency to build that goodwill.
  • 29:07 And again, you have to look at does it work?
  • 29:11 And how you're defining, "does it work?"
  • 29:13 You have the debt principle,
  • 29:16 that we go into these restructurings with any sovereign
  • 29:20 is you want to maintain as best you can access to commercial credit
  • 29:25 and to market credit after the restructuring, right?
  • 29:31 For entities that are on the lower end of the income
  • 29:35 that do not... that have lost...
  • 29:37 If a sovereign has already, in such a dire situation,
  • 29:43 that they've already experienced market exclusion,
  • 29:47 then obviously this type of restructuring under the G20 framework
  • 29:55 is something that is going to help them, right?
  • 29:58 They have nothing to lose by going through this type of framework.
  • 30:02 I think where we have to be careful with the framework
  • 30:05 is around sovereigns that may have a decent economy.
  • 30:10 They have the ability to reprofile the debt
  • 30:14 in a way that allows them not to lose access, right?
  • 30:18 To either bank credit or to the capital markets.
  • 30:22 And that's what we want to make sure.
  • 30:24 And that's why we're very encouraged.
  • 30:26 I just want to say, one statement is that,
  • 30:28 we are very encouraged by the way the G20 and the Paris Club
  • 30:31 has engaged the private sector on the G20 framework.
  • 30:35 And we believe that's going to be critical to make sure that it works
  • 30:39 in terms of having the private sector at the table early.
  • 30:42 Julie, how do you think about the short-term
  • 30:44 versus long-term trade-offs for countries?
  • 30:47 You could think about it as a liquidity problem
  • 30:50 versus the longer-term sustainability or solvency issues
  • 30:54 that the people of the country face.
  • 30:57 Are those incentives all in line...
  • 31:00 It seems to me that creditors have a large incentive
  • 31:04 to see the liquidity problem solved,
  • 31:06 meaning the short-run problem, and then maybe do it again.
  • 31:10 You mentioned all of the high number
  • 31:12 of Paris Club reschedulings that have already been underway.
  • 31:18 Yeah, I think that in terms of the trade-offs,
  • 31:20 you're trading off immediate relief with long-term access.
  • 31:25 And the funding growth needed, right?
  • 31:28 So when you think about how a country that goes through that process
  • 31:33 is going to have to balance that
  • 31:35 against their desire to finance their SDGs.
  • 31:38 And all of that... And there's not going to be enough official money to do that.
  • 31:43 So I think that the trade-offs that you're constantly trying to balance
  • 31:47 when you go through one of these negotiations
  • 31:49 is how to do it in a way that doesn't cut off a country
  • 31:53 from the additional private sector funding that's going to be needed for them.
  • 31:58 You know, because as we know, there's trillions of dollars of gap
  • 32:02 that the private sector have to fill
  • 32:04 on helping these countries achieve their SDGs.
  • 32:07 So you don't want to be in a situation where they don't have access to funding,
  • 32:11 or you have to look at the, like I said, the bond market,
  • 32:13 the mechanism of the bond market and the bank market are very different.
  • 32:16 On the bank side,
  • 32:18 if commercial banks are forced to take a restructuring
  • 32:23 that is going to have long-term implications for the country
  • 32:26 because credit committees, regulatory constraints...
  • 32:30 It's one of the reasons why there's very little traditional commercial credit
  • 32:35 from large institutions like CITI right now.
  • 32:39 So you see that there is long tail risk
  • 32:43 associated with forcing commercial bank restructuring.
  • 32:46 So you have to be very careful on that.
  • 32:48 And there's also implications where it's not just lending that gets impacted.
  • 32:52 It's the FX lines, it's the trade lines, and other impacts.
  • 32:56 So you have to be...
  • 32:58 So I think when we say under the framework,
  • 33:01 and I think the devil's in the details,
  • 33:02 that everything has to be done on an equal basis.
  • 33:05 If we apply the same methodology to the bond holders
  • 33:09 that we do to commercial bank credit,
  • 33:11 That's not necessarily going to work because they're very different mechanisms
  • 33:14 and very different considerations that we have to take when we're advising.
  • 33:18 And one final question, does collateral...
  • 33:21 More of the lending has been done with collateral
  • 33:25 and also with non-disclosure clauses in it by...
  • 33:29 Not by CITI, but by others.
  • 33:31 Does that change the dynamic of the reprofiling or of the restructuring?
  • 33:36 Yes.
  • 33:38 So I think that when we talk about the transparency principles,
  • 33:41 disclosures of liabilities are key.
  • 33:44 And what we're seeing is there are indirect pledges of central bank reserves.
  • 33:51 Even the banks ownership of its, their own bank repo agreements,
  • 33:56 their long-term commercial commitments with set-offs, right?
  • 34:00 And that's very common with countries that are oil exporting countries
  • 34:04 and have SOEs that are oil companies.
  • 34:06 So those are points of concern.
  • 34:09 And I think that we have to figure out through the transparency principles...
  • 34:13 Those aren't considered as they're not included in the transparency requirements
  • 34:18 and we have to move to get there.
  • 34:20 And I think one of the most...
  • 34:23 I think we at CITI have very much been a supporter
  • 34:28 of the transparency principles that the IMF has put forward in 2019.
  • 34:33 I think a lot of great solutions to transparency
  • 34:36 were in the World Bank report that you did in the fall.
  • 34:41 And I think that we need to address these transparency issues
  • 34:45 if we're going to get there because it is problematic as you go into these.
  • 34:49 And I can tell you that it's a forensics exercise
  • 34:55 to get access to all this information when you're doing a restructuring.
  • 34:59 And without going into the details,
  • 35:01 I can tell you that it was a forensic exercise as we approached it in Ecuador.
  • 35:06 And it will be the same thing in other countries.
  • 35:08 So I think the IIF has recently gotten...
  • 35:14 The IIF recently has asked the OECD
  • 35:18 to take implementing the transparency principles
  • 35:21 because they've been out there for a few years and haven't really been taken up.
  • 35:24 And if the OECD gets backing from the G20
  • 35:27 and it's actually implemented, and we build upon that,
  • 35:30 I think that's going to be critically important
  • 35:32 to make these restructurings work better.
  • 35:36 Thank you very much, Julie.
  • 35:37 Very interesting conversation, I appreciate it.
  • 35:42 [LOMÉ, TOGO] I'm Eric Keglan in Lomé, Togo,
  • 35:45 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 35:51 A reminder that President Malpass will be joining us again
  • 35:53 to answer your questions in a special live show, following this event.
  • 35:57 So be sure to stick around.
  • 35:58 And in the meantime, you can upvote your favorite question
  • 36:01 [LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] at live.worldbank.org.
  • 36:03 That's also where our experts are already answering your questions
  • 36:06 in English, Arabic, Spanish, and French on our live chat.
  • 36:10 That's all at live.worldbank.org.
  • 36:13 And if you've just joined us, welcome.
  • 36:14 I'm Paul Blake and you're watching our Spring Meetings event on Rethinking Debt.
  • 36:18 Now it's fair to say that in this debt crisis,
  • 36:20 children are among those hardest hit.
  • 36:23 Kevin Watkins, chief executive officer of Save the Children,
  • 36:26 knows from experience how debt crises can hurt future generations.
  • 36:30 He joined President Malpass for the final segment
  • 36:33 in today's series of conversations on Rethinking Debt.
  • 36:36 [RETHINKING DEBT: A CONVERSATION WITH KEVIN WATKINS, CEO, SAVE THE CHILDREN]
  • 36:46 [WASHINGTON, DC, USA; LONDON, UK] Hello, I'm here with Kevin Watkins.
  • 36:48 Kevin, you've been involved in development for a long time, for decades.
  • 36:53 I wonder if you have reflections on debt itself
  • 36:56 and how it interacts with countries.
  • 36:59 What are your thoughts in general?
  • 37:02 [KEVIN WATKINS; CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SAVE THE CHILDREN] Thanks David, and it's great to be here with you.
  • 37:05 Well, I think my most immediate reflection is,
  • 37:08 when I look back to when I started in Oxfam, which was back in the early 1990s,
  • 37:15 it was really at the tail end of what had been a lost decade for Latin America.
  • 37:21 And what was the start of the second lost decade for Sub-Saharan Africa.
  • 37:28 And of course, debt wasn't the only problem driving these last decades
  • 37:33 for some of the poorest parts of the world, but it was a significant part.
  • 37:38 And looking back on that episode now, I think there are a couple of lessons
  • 37:44 that have an important bearing on the work that the World Bank
  • 37:48 and you personally are leading, which is first of all,
  • 37:52 a mistake was made both in Latin America and in Africa,
  • 37:56 which was to treat what was a solvency problem as a liquidity problem.
  • 38:03 And so we had a succession of failed initiatives
  • 38:07 until, in the case of the low-income countries, we had the HIPC initiative,
  • 38:12 which of course the bank played a central part in framing and driving through,
  • 38:18 but it really took us the best part of two decades to solve the problem.
  • 38:22 And I think the second lesson that comes out of that period
  • 38:26 is that it's really critical that all creditors participate
  • 38:30 in solving the problem.
  • 38:33 And again, there were a lot of delays in those early stages
  • 38:36 of getting all creditors together and to treat that in a coherent way.
  • 38:43 And of course there was a lack of transparency in the system.
  • 38:46 For many countries it was very difficult to work out where the debt was held
  • 38:51 and how much that was held by who.
  • 38:53 When you say solvency and liquidity...
  • 38:55 So liquidity is looking at the shorter term
  • 38:58 and recognizing that the country is out of cash
  • 39:00 and solvency is the idea of how do you have sustainable debt.
  • 39:04 And so do you think the system has improved over these decades?
  • 39:10 Are we in a better position now to tackle that specific dichotomy
  • 39:15 that the temptation of creditors is to say,
  • 39:18 "well, as long as I get paid over the next three years, I should be okay."
  • 39:23 Versus the longer-term goals of the country
  • 39:26 are to have children grow up with enough food, with enough healthcare.
  • 39:31 How are we in a better place now?
  • 39:35 Well, I think that's a great question
  • 39:37 and you're quite right to draw attention to the human dimension of this.
  • 39:42 What concerned me most about that when I was working in Oxfam
  • 39:47 back in the '90s and the early 2000s
  • 39:50 was the impact that it was having in diverting investment
  • 39:56 that could have been going into nutrition,
  • 39:59 into education, into child health, to creditors
  • 40:02 in a way that was holding back the progress of countries.
  • 40:06 Now as to whether the system is more transparent
  • 40:10 and clearer now than it was back in those days,
  • 40:14 I think that's an open question because if you look at what happened after HIPC,
  • 40:19 of course, a lot of money was saved, about just under 2% of GDP actually
  • 40:24 for the 37 countries covered on average.
  • 40:28 A lot of that money did go into healthcare and education,
  • 40:32 but unfortunately, many of the countries that benefited from the HIPC initiative
  • 40:38 off the back of the commodities boom that happened after 2007
  • 40:45 started taking on credit on terms, which we now look back
  • 40:51 and say was probably not affordable in the case of a lot of sovereign debt.
  • 40:57 And in the case of debt that was incurred,
  • 41:00 in particular from China, was very nontransparent.
  • 41:04 This was debt that was often collateralized against productive assets,
  • 41:08 much of which was held off the books, as it were, in parastatal enterprises.
  • 41:14 And we're now coming to terms with the fact that,
  • 41:17 even before the COVID-19 pandemic struck,
  • 41:22 about half of countries eligible for IDA lending,
  • 41:26 were either back in that distress or in danger
  • 41:30 of falling back into that distress.
  • 41:32 And so I fear not enough lessons were learned from that earlier period.
  • 41:37 And it's absolutely critical that we now do take on board those lessons
  • 41:42 as we work to make the debt sustainability initiative work.
  • 41:48 One of the lessons is the need for transparency,
  • 41:51 for much deeper understanding of what the contracts are,
  • 41:54 what the terms are, what the collateral might be.
  • 41:57 We're working hard on that at the World Bank,
  • 41:59 including our international debt statistics system.
  • 42:04 To have it have more scope and to include more types of debt
  • 42:09 because the creditors are quite skillful at finding ways
  • 42:14 that debt doesn't count in the statistics, and yet it still bears the burden.
  • 42:20 So I think we can make progress on transparency,
  • 42:23 but there still is a tendency or there is an increasing tendency
  • 42:28 to have non-disclosure clauses and collateral, as you say,
  • 42:32 which makes it all difficult.
  • 42:34 At the core of the G20 common framework
  • 42:37 is the idea of trying to have comparable treatment for all creditors.
  • 42:44 And one of the challenges, and I wonder if you'll comment,
  • 42:46 is on the makeup of the international financial system or the legal structure.
  • 42:52 Is it given...
  • 42:54 Is there really a way to have comparable treatment
  • 42:58 that includes private sector creditors?
  • 43:02 Well, I think it's absolutely critical, David,
  • 43:05 that private sector creditors are part of the deal here.
  • 43:08 And both in the common framework and actually in the DSSI framework,
  • 43:14 it's absolutely clear that the expectation
  • 43:16 is that all creditors will participate
  • 43:20 in providing debt relief and supporting the moratorium.
  • 43:25 The reality is you just have to look at the simple arithmetic of debt servicing.
  • 43:30 The Paris Club,
  • 43:31 which is the main group of creditors that have provided debt relief so far,
  • 43:36 account for something in the order of six and a half billion in debt servicing.
  • 43:43 China and private creditors account for something
  • 43:47 in the order of over 35 billion.
  • 43:50 So if we don't have private creditors participating,
  • 43:54 if we don't have China participating,
  • 43:57 we're not going to be able to provide the support
  • 44:00 that countries so desperately need
  • 44:02 as they try to adjust to the fiscal crisis that they're now in.
  • 44:06 Yeah, that's a huge shift from your early days in the 1990s of...
  • 44:12 The Paris club used to be one of the big players within the credit,
  • 44:16 but you're saying six billion versus 35 billion of debt service.
  • 44:20 So it's become lopsided the other way.
  • 44:24 That used to be, in the 1980s, the commercial banks had a big chunk of the debt.
  • 44:31 That's less so the case now, so we have different problems.
  • 44:35 Well, Kevin, do you have other...
  • 44:39 I mean, any direct advice that you want to give to the international community
  • 44:45 on the debt problem?
  • 44:47 Is it a big problem and what could be done?
  • 44:50 One or two things that would make it move along
  • 44:53 in a better direction than in the past?
  • 44:58 Well, I think I'd have to proposition support on that.
  • 45:01 So the first is that it's very clear that for a large group of countries
  • 45:09 that debt servicing is now compromising
  • 45:13 the ability of government to provide basic services
  • 45:17 for some of their most vulnerable citizens and for children.
  • 45:21 I mean, to give one illustration of the problem,
  • 45:24 there are about 35 countries who are covered by the DSSI initiative,
  • 45:31 who are currently spending more on debt servicing
  • 45:35 than they're spending on health.
  • 45:36 This is at a time when child malnutrition is rising
  • 45:42 when child poverty is rising,
  • 45:44 when we have evidence from the World Bank
  • 45:46 the education budgets are being cut very deeply
  • 45:50 as governments respond to fiscal pressures.
  • 45:53 So surely this is an opportunity
  • 45:56 for the world to come together on behalf of children
  • 46:00 and to convert what are essentially unpayable debt liabilities in many cases
  • 46:07 into investments in human capital
  • 46:09 and in particular capital and support for children
  • 46:14 to make sure that they get the education and nutrition,
  • 46:16 the decent health that they have a right to.
  • 46:20 The second point I would make is that, in order for this initiative to work,
  • 46:26 and we really appreciate your leadership, David, in driving this initiative,
  • 46:31 it is critical that all creditors participate.
  • 46:35 It's simply not acceptable for sovereign bond holders
  • 46:38 to sit on the sidelines, to hide behind opaque deals,
  • 46:43 and to assume that they have some sort of exemption ticket
  • 46:47 from their moral responsibilities
  • 46:51 and their obligations towards the countries in question.
  • 46:54 So we would really like to see all creditors participating.
  • 46:59 We know from the experience of Bolivia.
  • 47:02 That when private creditors step up and provide relief,
  • 47:07 it can actually improve the credit rating of countries
  • 47:11 and it can certainly improve the financial sustainability prospects.
  • 47:16 So I think David they would be my two primary recommendations.
  • 47:21 Thank you, that's a great conclusion.
  • 47:23 Kevin, thank you very much for your insights.
  • 47:27 Good luck in all.
  • 47:29 Thank you so much, David. Good to see you.
  • 47:32 [UGANDA] <i>Gyebale ko.</i> I'm Kunda Esther in Uganda,
  • 47:35 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 47:41 And a big thank you to President Malpass and all of his guests today.
  • 47:44 Let's remind you of the poll we're running throughout this event.
  • 47:47 We're asking you to vote at live.worldbank.org, and the question is
  • 47:50 following the COVID-19 crisis, what is your biggest financial priority?
  • 47:55 Is it A, to save for the future or B, make wise investments,
  • 48:00 or is your priority to C, take out a loan
  • 48:02 or lastly, will you be focusing on D, paying off debts?
  • 48:06 [LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] You can cast your vote at live.worldbank.org.
  • 48:09 That's also where you can dive deeper
  • 48:11 into some of the issues raised by our guests.
  • 48:13 We've put together a list of reports, blogs, and briefs,
  • 48:16 so you can learn more about the topics we're discussing today.
  • 48:19 Now it's time to turn to our final discussion.
  • 48:21 This debt crisis is unprecedented because it's linked to a global pandemic,
  • 48:26 but it sure isn't the first time that the world has confronted this challenge.
  • 48:30 In fact, there've been reccurring cycles of debt
  • 48:32 in many parts of the world throughout history.
  • 48:35 I'm joined today by two experts
  • 48:36 to discuss what we can learn from this experience
  • 48:38 to chart a better course for permanent debt reduction.
  • 48:41 [WASHINGTON, DC, USA; FLORIDA, USA; VIRGINIA, USA] Carmen Reinhardt is the World Bank Group Chief Economist,
  • 48:44 and K.Y. Amoako is the president
  • 48:46 of the African Center for Economic Transformation.
  • 48:49 Welcome to you both.
  • 48:50 Carmen, let me start with you.
  • 48:52 You've studied financial crises over the past 800 years.
  • 48:56 What's different about this crisis?
  • 49:00 [CARMEN REINHART; CHIEF ECONOMIST, WORLD BANK GROUP] Well, the list is really too long to go over, but let me highlight a couple...
  • 49:06 I mean, it started as a health crisis.
  • 49:09 Didn't have its roots in a financial bubble or financial-driven...
  • 49:17 It's a pandemic.
  • 49:19 Because it's a pandemic one of the exceptional things about this crisis
  • 49:24 is that it's really hit everyone.
  • 49:26 The synchronicity in output declines in 2020
  • 49:31 is something you have not seen historically.
  • 49:35 Another feature that makes it very different from the 2008, 2009 crisis.
  • 49:42 It's that it's a very regressive crisis.
  • 49:46 It's regressive within countries, hitting the poorest within countries,
  • 49:51 households, smaller firms, and across countries.
  • 49:56 This is different from 2008, 2009,
  • 50:00 where a big focal point of the crisis were about a dozen advanced economies.
  • 50:07 Now the low-income countries,
  • 50:10 the emerging markets are really disproportionately hurting.
  • 50:17 Okay, well, let's talk about some of those emerging economies.
  • 50:19 Over the years, Africa has been hit by cycles of debt buildups, and then crises.
  • 50:25 You've seen the setbacks when budgets become tight
  • 50:28 and payment difficulties become the greatest concern.
  • 50:31 How are people and development programs affected during those crises?
  • 50:37 [DR K.Y. AMOAKO; PRESIDENT, AFRICAN CENTER FOR ECONOMIC TRANSFORMATION] Yeah, the first point I would like to make is that [indistinct] in crisis
  • 50:43 are accompanied by high debt payments,
  • 50:46 which naturally restrict the fiscal space to respond.
  • 50:52 When countries are in that distress or a debt crisis,
  • 50:56 they spend their limited finances to pay interest
  • 50:59 rather than to invest in human capital, develop critical infrastructure,
  • 51:05 and facilitate economic growth and job creation.
  • 51:09 As a result countries already struggling to transform their economies
  • 51:13 and invest in their people, suffer further setbacks.
  • 51:19 Let me put it in the context of Africa, that I know best.
  • 51:24 Our growing young population
  • 51:26 requires governments invest in education, skills, and job creation,
  • 51:31 but we increase in debt payments
  • 51:34 and in economic downturn the amount of money countries can invest is reduced.
  • 51:40 As a result, there's a severe risk
  • 51:44 we'll be adding another generation of poorly educated
  • 51:48 and unskilled young people to the ones we already have
  • 51:52 because we have spent our limited resources on debt repayments
  • 51:56 on social protection for the most vulnerable.
  • 52:00 This in Africa would substantially, seems to me,
  • 52:04 affect our ability to transform our great youth population
  • 52:08 into the growing demographic dividend that we are looking for.
  • 52:13 So as I see it by 2020, we all know this,
  • 52:17 Africa will have more people entering the labor market than any world region.
  • 52:23 If they are not gainfully employed, we will have social and political unrest.
  • 52:28 So it seems to me, we need a robust solution.
  • 52:32 We are laying the foundations without a robust solution.
  • 52:36 We'll be laying the foundation for ascertaining the potential risks
  • 52:40 associated with these challenges.
  • 52:42 So it's real.
  • 52:45 Let's talk about some of those solutions,
  • 52:46 and you're talking about some of the risks involved.
  • 52:49 Carmen, I know you've been stressing the need for quick debt resolution.
  • 52:53 Are there examples where decisive debt reduction worked
  • 52:56 and led to better economic conditions
  • 52:58 and in particular, what about in the emerging market...
  • 53:01 emerging markets crises of the 1980s to 2000s?
  • 53:06 Well, so there are examples of quick resolutions,
  • 53:10 but they tend to be unfortunately of the more isolated, idiosyncratic variety.
  • 53:18 Meaning a country that was hit by a natural disaster,
  • 53:23 and it was able to quickly renegotiate with its creditors.
  • 53:27 But when you asked me about the 1980s,
  • 53:31 a big takeaway from the 1980s is precisely we don't want to repeat that.
  • 53:37 For the very reasons that K.Y. alluded to.
  • 53:44 You know, the burden of having resources devoted to debt servicing
  • 53:50 at a time when resource needs to recover from the pandemic crises are so dire.
  • 54:00 This highlights the importance of debt relief.
  • 54:02 But what am I afraid of right now?
  • 54:04 I'm afraid of that, so far, the move in that direction is very, very slow.
  • 54:16 We have not seen private creditor participation in DSSI as yet.
  • 54:25 And if history is any guide,
  • 54:28 unfortunately the creditors will also move slowly in granting debt relief.
  • 54:40 And we have a much more complex creditor base today than we did in the 1980s.
  • 54:50 Countries have bond holders, a variety of private creditors,
  • 54:57 a broader array of official creditors.
  • 54:59 It's complicated.
  • 55:01 So the need for speedy debt reduction is clearly there.
  • 55:08 But as I said, the problem, historically,
  • 55:14 has been a very slow movement on the creditor side.
  • 55:19 I think more transparency.
  • 55:21 Something that the bank has been really working very assiduously for some time,
  • 55:30 to increase transparency of debt and credits and terms of borrowing and so on,
  • 55:38 can increase the creditor coordination and speed things along.
  • 55:45 It won't solve the issues, but it may help speed things up.
  • 55:50 And K.Y Carmen was just talking there about the changing creditor base.
  • 55:54 And I've been reading a little bit about this.
  • 55:56 Diversifying creditor base with private creditors increasing their share.
  • 56:01 Tell us a little bit about why that is a challenge
  • 56:04 and how countries in Africa are dealing with this new challenge.
  • 56:07 Are there any lessons that can be learned from past experiences
  • 56:11 to improve debt management today?
  • 56:14 Yeah, I think both of you and Carmen are very correct
  • 56:17 that the debt situation is a lot more complex
  • 56:21 In that first part we all agree,
  • 56:23 but we also agreed that everybody wants to ensure that Africa transforms.
  • 56:29 As I say, with our growing population we must spend more
  • 56:32 on infrastructure, education, urbanization.
  • 56:35 We need smart agriculture, we need smart technology, and we need smart people.
  • 56:41 But we see that over the years,
  • 56:42 so the last few decades, China, for example,
  • 56:46 has emerged as the biggest bilateral lender to Africa.
  • 56:51 Transferring nearly $150 billion.
  • 56:55 In addition, there's much more private sector debt
  • 57:01 and Russia and Middle Eastern cities are becoming big lenders to Africa.
  • 57:07 These new players often, let's say, operate by rules
  • 57:12 that may seem less transparent.
  • 57:14 That's a fact.
  • 57:16 Making it more difficult to understand the scale of the problem.
  • 57:21 So capacity across the continent to manage debt
  • 57:24 is more robust, it seems to be, than it was in the 1990s.
  • 57:29 But after the COVID crisis,
  • 57:31 several African countries are facing debt distress or a debt crisis.
  • 57:37 But as you say, we need to learn from the past.
  • 57:40 I've just written a book about Africa and development
  • 57:43 called " If you know the beginning well, the end shall not trouble you,"
  • 57:47 from an African proverb.
  • 57:49 So we need to learn lessons from the past to inform the future.
  • 57:53 That's the essence of what I'm trying to say.
  • 57:55 So what are some of the...
  • 57:56 First national and regional debt problems are not individually events
  • 58:02 for countries with temporary liquidity shortages.
  • 58:05 They will over time have significant repercussions
  • 58:09 for global financial stability.
  • 58:12 That's one lesson.
  • 58:13 Second, negotiating ad hoc solutions with different borrowers does not work.
  • 58:20 Any solution developed must work for all lenders, official and commercial.
  • 58:27 Third point I'll make is that the process, as Carmen said, must be transparent.
  • 58:33 Covering any new financing sources
  • 58:36 and the framer for subsequent transactions between parties.
  • 58:41 Fourth and finally, by pursuing a green, strong policy reform program
  • 58:47 at the country level,
  • 58:48 putting the money in the game, and giving creditors real options.
  • 58:55 if you do so, uncertainty can be minimized and investor confidence restored.
  • 59:02 So those are some of the lessons that I think
  • 59:04 are applicable to our situation today.
  • 59:08 And Carmen three countries have applied so far for debt relief
  • 59:11 under the G20 common framework for debt treatments.
  • 59:14 Now, for those of us who might not be aware,
  • 59:16 can you tell us briefly what that is?
  • 59:18 And then can you talk to us about whether, in your assessment,
  • 59:21 this is a step in the right direction
  • 59:23 in shaping debt restructuring going forward?
  • 59:29 So, first of all,
  • 59:30 let's start out with the debt suspension initiative,
  • 59:36 the DSSI, the debt service suspension initiative.
  • 59:40 We were dealt, we have a once in a hundred year pandemic.
  • 59:45 This is an exceptional shock as we've already discussed.
  • 59:50 So the DSSI was primarily designed with the view
  • 59:56 that, during the pandemic,
  • 01:00:01 countries would be far better off diverting resources away from debt servicing
  • 01:00:08 to deal with the health and social emergency
  • 01:00:12 and the social needs with the pandemic,
  • 01:00:16 but it's a temporary solution.
  • 01:00:19 And it was designed as a temporary solution.
  • 01:00:22 Now, K.Y has already alluded to this.
  • 01:00:27 Even before COVID, a significant share of countries
  • 01:00:31 were either in debt distress or in a high likelihood of debt distress.
  • 01:00:37 Since COVID that number has increased.
  • 01:00:39 So the common framework moves from the recognition
  • 01:00:44 that these problems are temporary
  • 01:00:47 to that the problems are more structural,
  • 01:00:51 that debt reduction of one form or another is needed.
  • 01:00:56 And by debt reduction, it can take many forms.
  • 01:00:59 It can be face value reductions
  • 01:01:02 or it could be lengthening maturities and giving better lending terms.
  • 01:01:08 It can take a variety of forms.
  • 01:01:12 That's not what we're discussing here,
  • 01:01:14 but the main point is that you need debt reduction in net present value terms,
  • 01:01:19 which is something beyond the DSSI.
  • 01:01:24 And K.Y. and I also mentioned the issue of transparency.
  • 01:01:29 Right now I think a very important driver
  • 01:01:34 of how quickly the common framework can move forward
  • 01:01:39 in the cases of Chad, Ethiopia, and Zambia,
  • 01:01:43 the three countries that have applied,
  • 01:01:45 importantly, relies on creditors' being able to get together
  • 01:01:50 and work something out.
  • 01:01:51 And for creditors to be able to work something out, you need transparency.
  • 01:01:56 And as K.Y has noted,
  • 01:02:02 we have a lot of new entrants into the creditor pool, and...
  • 01:02:09 So it will be a challenge.
  • 01:02:12 I will conclude by saying it's a step in the right direction.
  • 01:02:16 It opens the door to the recognition
  • 01:02:20 that the problems are bigger than a temporary pandemic
  • 01:02:27 And, you know...
  • 01:02:30 But in these things, I always say the devil is in the details.
  • 01:02:34 So we'll see how creditors can coordinate to produce a good outcome
  • 01:02:43 for the countries that have applied.
  • 01:02:45 K.Y., let's just get the final thought from you.
  • 01:02:47 What can the international community do to reach a more permanent solution?
  • 01:02:52 Wow, that's a big one.
  • 01:02:54 I think that starts with the DSSI that Carmen has just mentioned.
  • 01:03:00 It's a step in the right direction, but it's not sufficient.
  • 01:03:04 And then, so we need to build upon that.
  • 01:03:07 I think in the first stage we need to extend it to the end of 2021
  • 01:03:12 to give countries more fiscal space to keep investing
  • 01:03:16 in the priorities that I've already mentioned.
  • 01:03:18 And then there's obviously the issue of a common framework
  • 01:03:21 and how we'll work on that. So this is a first step, but how do we deepen that going forward?
  • 01:03:26 So very much, I agree with what Carmen has said on that.
  • 01:03:29 We also need to work on innovation, solutions to the current debt challenge
  • 01:03:34 so that they respond to diverse needs of borrowers and lenders.
  • 01:03:40 My colleagues at the Economic Commission for Africa, which I headed before.
  • 01:03:46 have been arguing, for example, that we need to acknowledge,
  • 01:03:50 come up with a fairer rating system
  • 01:03:53 for African borrowers, borrowing countries.
  • 01:03:56 For example, they indicate Greece has a worse debt to GDP ratio than Ghana,
  • 01:04:04 but Greece can borrow at less than 2%,
  • 01:04:09 whereas it's at least 4.5% for Ghana.
  • 01:04:13 So the whole international rating system
  • 01:04:15 and how African countries cannot access the market
  • 01:04:19 is also an issue that they've been talking about,
  • 01:04:23 are the requests of the African finance ministers
  • 01:04:25 and they met in Addis Ababa only a few days ago.
  • 01:04:29 The ministers came out with their recommendation.
  • 01:04:32 That the SDR amount should create up to $650 billion worth of SDRs.
  • 01:04:42 And to establish an online mechanism
  • 01:04:45 for G7 countries to transfer their SDRs to shares...
  • 01:04:50 SDR shares to low- and middle-income countries.
  • 01:04:53 That's a specific recommendation from African finance ministers.
  • 01:04:58 I'm glad that, only yesterday I believe,
  • 01:05:01 the managing director of the IMF has indicated
  • 01:05:04 she is committed to recommending to her board, the creation of additional SDRs.
  • 01:05:11 I think they're the kind of integrated solutions we need.
  • 01:05:13 But we should not just focus on debt, and that's my main point.
  • 01:05:18 If Africa is to achieve...
  • 01:05:23 Rekindle loss to COVID in terms of meeting our SDG goals in the decade ahead,
  • 01:05:32 we must transform our economies at a faster pace than we have been so far.
  • 01:05:40 I think it goes beyond that, it's about transformation.
  • 01:05:44 And to transform, African countries, like countries everywhere, must borrow.
  • 01:05:50 But to ensure that this borrowing is manageable,
  • 01:05:52 it must be affordable to ensure we can repay our debts.
  • 01:05:57 So these are the fundamental issues
  • 01:05:59 that I want to put on the table in the long term.
  • 01:06:01 K.Y. Amoako and Carmen M. Reinhart,
  • 01:06:03 thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
  • 01:06:05 Now, we've heard a lot about how much debt and financing
  • 01:06:08 can help or hinder a resilient recovery in developing countries.
  • 01:06:12 The way countries handle their borrowing today
  • 01:06:14 will determine whether they can achieve their development goals
  • 01:06:17 tomorrow and into the future.
  • 01:06:19 It will also weigh heavily on the financial hopes and dreams
  • 01:06:22 of citizens everywhere, especially youth.
  • 01:06:26 Now, throughout this event, we've been hearing from young global leaders
  • 01:06:29 and let's hear from them once more.
  • 01:06:32 [IMPACT ENTREPRENEURSHIP ADVOCATE, COLOMBIA] In five years, I hope that I can buy a home for my parents.
  • 01:06:36 [RESARCH ANALYST, LEBANON] I hope that I would have recovered resources that I lost
  • 01:06:39 due to the government defaulting on its debt.
  • 01:06:41 [STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MARY WASHINGTON, USA, D.R. CONGO] I hope that I am living debt-free and financially stable.
  • 01:06:46 [SHAZEEB M. KHAIRUL ISLAM; OBAMA SCHOLAR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY] I hope that I am able to give access to financing
  • 01:06:49 [FOUNDERY YY VENTURES, ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR, BANGLADESH] to 100 people of my generation from emerging countries.
  • 01:06:53 [IVANNA VELISONE; COLLEGE STUDENT, ARGENTINA] I hope to own my own home and feel more comfortable managing my budget.
  • 01:06:57 [CO-FOUNDER, ASSOCIATION FOR RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS (ZMA), NORTH MACEDONIA] I hope that I would start a family and get on the Aggie 100 list.
  • 01:07:02 [ANGAR ENKHTUR; TEAM ASSISTANT, WORLD BANK, MONGOLIA] To travel to the countries that I have never traveled to
  • 01:07:07 and consider saving up for cash for any kind of emergency situations.
  • 01:07:13 [LAMIJA HRELJIC; STUDENT, SARAJEVO, BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA] The current financial system doesn't work for me. Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:16 [SUSTAINABILITY SPECIALIST, ONE YOUNG WORLD AMBASSADOR, SRI LANKA] The current financial system doesn't work for me. Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:22 [ENTREPRENEUER, ARGENTINA] The current financial system doesn't work for me. Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:26 [BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AND SALES SPECIALIST, BEAM TECH COMPANY, TURKEY] Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:27 Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:28 Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:29 [CARITTA SEPPA; CO-FOUNDER AND COO, TESPACIK, FINLAND] Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:30 [SALIH MAHMOUD; FOUNDER, MOSUL SPACE, IRAQ] Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:32 Let's fix it.
  • 01:07:36 So great to hear all of those positive hopes for the future.
  • 01:07:39 Now we're only halfway through this week's events,
  • 01:07:41 and if you want to share your thoughts on any aspect of our Spring Meetings,
  • 01:07:45 [#RESILIENTRECOVERY] you can use the hashtag "ResilientRecovery."
  • 01:07:48 Now, please don't go anywhere.
  • 01:07:49 The show continues live from the World Bank Group headquarters,
  • 01:07:52 where my colleague Srimathi Sridhar is standing by
  • 01:07:54 with World Bank Group president, David Malpass.
  • 01:07:57 We'll be looking at your questions, your comments,
  • 01:08:00 revealing the results of today's poll, and much more.
  • 01:08:15 [LIVE: WASHINGTON, DC] And we're live once more from the World Bank Group headquarters
  • 01:08:17 in Washington, DC.
  • 01:08:19 [SRIMATHI SRIDHAR; WORLD BANK GROUP] I'm Srimathi Sridhar and over the next half hour or so,
  • 01:08:21 we'll hear from youth in Japan, Lesotho, and Nigeria
  • 01:08:25 on their hopes for a COVID-19 recovery.
  • 01:08:27 We'll also reveal the results of our poll
  • 01:08:30 [LIVE: WORLD BANK GROUOP PRESIDENT DAVID MALPASS ON RETHINKING DEBT] and speak to our country directors in India and Benin
  • 01:08:32 about the climate challenges and action taking place in those countries.
  • 01:08:36 But first, to get his thoughts, I'm delighted to be joined
  • 01:08:38 by World Bank group president David Malpass.
  • 01:08:41 David it's so nice to see you again, thanks for being here.
  • 01:08:43 Hi Sri, good to be here.
  • 01:08:44 So we've gotten a lot of great questions over the past few weeks
  • 01:08:47 on the role debt could play in helping countries recover from the pandemic.
  • 01:08:51 So let's get started with this first question.
  • 01:08:52 It was sent to us on video by Ebuka Orjiakor in Nigeria.
  • 01:08:57 Let's take a look.
  • 01:08:58 [EBUKA ORJIAKOR, NIGERIA] Hello everyone, hi, my name is Christian Ebuka Orjiakor.
  • 01:09:03 So the big question, the question here
  • 01:09:05 is how does the debt affect development?
  • 01:09:08 Does debt promote development or deter development?
  • 01:09:11 Or can debt be a double edge sword?
  • 01:09:14 Thank you.
  • 01:09:18 So how does debt affect development?
  • 01:09:20 What would you tell Ebuka, David?
  • 01:09:21 Yep, and these are really interesting topics
  • 01:09:25 that people have been discussing today.
  • 01:09:26 [DAVID MALPASS; PRESIDENT, WORLD BANK GROUP] And that's a critical one, it is a double edge sword.
  • 01:09:30 If you borrow and don't have a good purpose for it,
  • 01:09:34 it's going to come back because you have to pay debt service,
  • 01:09:37 you have to repay the debt
  • 01:09:39 and you won't get what you want out of the debt.
  • 01:09:41 But on the other hand, for developing countries, for everyone really,
  • 01:09:46 debt can be an important part of a growth initiative.
  • 01:09:49 You can fund health initiatives,
  • 01:09:51 you can fund, very importantly, new businesses.
  • 01:09:55 So if we think of development, there should be more and more debt.
  • 01:09:59 And that's what we're trying to create that
  • 01:10:01 with some of our transparency initiatives.
  • 01:10:03 If the people of the country know what their governments are borrowing,
  • 01:10:07 and there's some transparency of the contracts.
  • 01:10:10 What's the interest rate on the contract?
  • 01:10:13 What's the purpose of the contract?
  • 01:10:15 That helps a lot.
  • 01:10:16 [LIVE DISCUSSION: FINANCING THE FUTURE AMID CRISIS] And you know, it works also on the investment side,
  • 01:10:19 meaning what are we getting for our money?
  • 01:10:22 Will it be useful to the community?
  • 01:10:24 Will it be useful to the nation?
  • 01:10:26 And what really is the plan for using this debt capacity of the country?
  • 01:10:31 I think those are valid, relevant questions.
  • 01:10:34 And we're right now at a point in the world,
  • 01:10:36 where some of the countries are over indebted.
  • 01:10:39 There's an unsustainable amount of debt.
  • 01:10:41 So that's a big challenge that we're working on.
  • 01:10:44 So understanding how that affects development, now
  • 01:10:46 let's bring in the youth perspective.
  • 01:10:48 We have a question online from Tara
  • 01:10:50 who wants to know what youth can do in their communities
  • 01:10:53 to create more awareness around debt and debt financing.
  • 01:10:58 Well, that can apply to lots of things.
  • 01:11:00 What can they do to be more engaged in health and in education?
  • 01:11:04 And I think that to engage in institutions
  • 01:11:07 and to help build stronger institutions,
  • 01:11:10 ones that, for example, as a starting point for a lot of countries
  • 01:11:14 is do you know which government officials have the authority to authorize debt
  • 01:11:19 or to commit the country to debt or the community?
  • 01:11:23 It works at really all levels of government.
  • 01:11:26 And so I think young people can be engaged, be educated
  • 01:11:29 about finance, about what's an interest rate.
  • 01:11:32 How does it work?
  • 01:11:34 And then how do you get involved in the institutions of your country, too?
  • 01:11:38 Because the goal is to have debt used in ways that really help development.
  • 01:11:44 So that means engaging, who makes the decisions
  • 01:11:49 on when there can be a debt contract.
  • 01:11:52 How did they decide what to invest in
  • 01:11:55 and how do you get good use out of all of that?
  • 01:11:57 I think there should be a lot of engagement.
  • 01:12:00 And that starts, frankly, with a lot of education
  • 01:12:03 about what are the goals of your country?
  • 01:12:07 How does it interact with health and education and climate?
  • 01:12:11 What you want as a nation.
  • 01:12:13 Those are all questions I think that are really important.
  • 01:12:16 So a lot of ways for youths to be proactive and education is key there.
  • 01:12:20 This next online question is about negative interest rates.
  • 01:12:23 This online viewer wants to know how do they work
  • 01:12:26 and can they be a solution for the world's poorest?
  • 01:12:30 Economists have been trying to figure that out.
  • 01:12:33 So for some years now there's been this question
  • 01:12:35 of why is inflation as low as it is
  • 01:12:38 given the amount of growth in central bank balance sheets.
  • 01:12:40 So these are questions that we probably can't resolve, figure out right now,
  • 01:12:46 but negative interest rates are, one way to think about them
  • 01:12:52 is they're the result of institutional success over 50 years
  • 01:12:58 where central banks and budgets of countries had some kind of discipline.
  • 01:13:04 And so then you get to the point
  • 01:13:06 where you can borrow at a very low interest rate
  • 01:13:09 or even a negative interest rate.
  • 01:13:11 The challenge with that is you get to do that,
  • 01:13:16 people get to do that once in a generation maybe
  • 01:13:19 because you're borrowing from future generations
  • 01:13:22 at a very low or a negative interest rate.
  • 01:13:25 And therefore that you're going to need to repay that debt.
  • 01:13:29 And so the country, or the borrowing authority
  • 01:13:33 sometimes it might be a municipality, even a city,
  • 01:13:37 needs to make really good use of the debt or of the borrowing
  • 01:13:43 because you're going to have to pay it back.
  • 01:13:44 And you don't get to do it over and over again.
  • 01:13:47 There'll be a period of years maybe
  • 01:13:49 where the world enjoys this super low interest rate.
  • 01:13:53 One challenge for development
  • 01:13:55 is the developing countries themselves don't get to fully participate in this.
  • 01:14:00 The interest rates have fallen for the advanced economies,
  • 01:14:03 but very few of the developing countries have gotten as much benefit from that.
  • 01:14:10 So there's an inherent unfairness in this,
  • 01:14:14 in that people that already had some national wealth
  • 01:14:18 are getting the low interest rate.
  • 01:14:20 And so that is I think a challenge, we want to address that as the World Bank
  • 01:14:25 with good practices in the developing countries,
  • 01:14:27 if there can be transparency, good choice of projects
  • 01:14:31 that can help the country get lower interest rates.
  • 01:14:37 Now this next question comes from Ngugi Irungu in Kenya,
  • 01:14:41 and he wants to know if there are models of financing public projects
  • 01:14:46 that ensure governments can repay debts comfortably?
  • 01:14:51 Emphasis on comfortably.
  • 01:14:53 So the way to do that
  • 01:14:55 is if you get a really good return from your project.
  • 01:14:58 So if I have a public private partnership or investment that's well chosen.
  • 01:15:05 And so Kenya has huge challenges with transportation and with agriculture.
  • 01:15:10 So choose projects that really have a payoff,
  • 01:15:14 then you can afford the debt service and do it comfortably.
  • 01:15:19 That gets into this institutional structure
  • 01:15:22 of how did you decide on the projects that your country wants to undertake?
  • 01:15:29 This gets into all these challenges of urban and city planning.
  • 01:15:33 World Bank is very involved in those because as cities get bigger and bigger,
  • 01:15:38 they need to make investments that will help people be able to get to work,
  • 01:15:42 do it in an environmentally friendly way,
  • 01:15:45 that will help people save time
  • 01:15:48 by not having to travel for hours and hours a day.
  • 01:15:53 One of the successful World Bank projects
  • 01:15:55 has been in cities where they have mountainous areas or bad roads into the city
  • 01:16:03 putting aerial tram car or some kind of mass transit
  • 01:16:07 and can really help people get to work in fewer hours per day.
  • 01:16:12 And that saves them.
  • 01:16:14 So how do you create a public-private investment
  • 01:16:18 that can do the right things at the time that it's needed?
  • 01:16:21 These are challenges, we call them, or I think of them as governance challenges.
  • 01:16:27 Do you have a city council that makes good decisions?
  • 01:16:31 Who's involved? How do they disclose what the decision...
  • 01:16:35 You know, a big part of this, I think is the transparency that's needed
  • 01:16:40 so that people know how did a decision get made
  • 01:16:44 and what was the evidence, what was the basis for the decision?
  • 01:16:49 That can really help get us to good decision making.
  • 01:16:52 Sure, this is actually a great segue into my next and last question,
  • 01:16:56 which is about debt transparency.
  • 01:16:57 So one of our online viewers says,
  • 01:17:00 "debt transparency is obviously critical for impact,
  • 01:17:02 but COVID-19 has changed that, and how has it changed it
  • 01:17:06 and how can we overcome this huge economic and financial hurdle
  • 01:17:10 as we look to recover?"
  • 01:17:14 Yeah, so one of the challenges working from home,
  • 01:17:18 and that's happening in countries around the world
  • 01:17:21 with different degrees of success.
  • 01:17:23 Some countries don't really have electricity access for a lot of the people.
  • 01:17:27 And so it's very hard to then be working from home.
  • 01:17:30 Also in the informal sector, a lot of workers are left out.
  • 01:17:34 They don't get a social safety net
  • 01:17:37 and there's not the concept of working from home.
  • 01:17:40 You have to be at the job.
  • 01:17:42 And so this has created challenges.
  • 01:17:46 So we think of them in the advanced economies
  • 01:17:50 as one of transparency or connectivity.
  • 01:17:54 How do you really get connected?
  • 01:17:56 I think for a lot of the poor countries, it's more of a survival question
  • 01:18:01 and nutrition, a food insecurity question that are very pressing needs.
  • 01:18:07 You know, one of the harmful aspects of the COVID crisis
  • 01:18:11 is kids getting left out of school
  • 01:18:13 because they fall backward in their education.
  • 01:18:16 They may not get the vaccinations that they need,
  • 01:18:19 that schools may have been one of the systems
  • 01:18:21 that gave them nutritious food during the day.
  • 01:18:26 And so these are all... so I think in terms of transparency,
  • 01:18:31 we can also add in digitalization or having data that helps countries
  • 01:18:38 and governments know where they need to put resources.
  • 01:18:42 World Bank works extensively in those areas of trying to have data and surveys
  • 01:18:47 that are meaningful to people in countries so that they can make progress.
  • 01:18:54 All that's been made harder by COVID.
  • 01:18:57 And so we, I think, need to really work urgently
  • 01:19:02 toward that recovery on the other side of COVID.
  • 01:19:06 Can I say a final word on vaccinations and transparency importance?
  • 01:19:10 Who's been able to get vaccinations?
  • 01:19:12 The World Bank has extensive programs.
  • 01:19:15 Now we'll have 50 countries with financing available for vaccines.
  • 01:19:19 And that means some system of keeping track of who's gotten vaccinated
  • 01:19:23 so that people aren't mistakenly getting vaccinated twice
  • 01:19:28 or more than they need to.
  • 01:19:30 But also how do you get full coverage
  • 01:19:32 to those people that want it, and that are most vulnerable?
  • 01:19:36 How do you do that?
  • 01:19:37 And that can be an aspect of digitalization and of transparency.
  • 01:19:43 Now COVID-19 has changed so much for us here, so it's really great to hear
  • 01:19:47 about how debt transparency is still a priority for us.
  • 01:19:50 David, with that I want to thank you so much for joining me here today.
  • 01:19:53 And for telling us more about the role debt can play
  • 01:19:55 in helping countries build a green, inclusive, and resilient recovery.
  • 01:19:59 Super, Sri, thank you and thanks, everybody.
  • 01:20:02 I'm glad people are interested in these topics.
  • 01:20:04 Absolutely, thank you.
  • 01:20:05 Thanks.
  • 01:20:08 [BRASÍLIA, BRAZIL] Hello everyone, I'm Mariana Serachi in Brasília, Brazil
  • 01:20:11 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 01:20:17 [LIVE: WASHINGTON, DC] Now throughout these Spring Meetings,
  • 01:20:18 we're highlighting the voices and perspectives
  • 01:20:20 [FINANCING THE FUTURE: YOUTH VOICES] of youth leaders and thinkers around the world.
  • 01:20:23 For the past few weeks, we've been collecting video submissions
  • 01:20:26 from hundreds of young people.
  • 01:20:28 We ask them about the role that they and their peers
  • 01:20:30 could play in a resilient recovery.
  • 01:20:32 Today, we hear from Jin in Japan, Mapaseka in Lesotho,
  • 01:20:36 and Benjamin and Anthony, both from Nigeria.
  • 01:20:40 [HOW CAN YOUTH IN YOUR COUNTRY PARTICIPATE IN A RESILIENT RECOVERY]
  • 01:20:43 [FROM THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC?]
  • 01:20:45 [MAPASEKA MPHAHAMA, LESOTHO] I believe an establishment of a national youth council
  • 01:20:49 is a strategy for resilience recovery plan for COVID-19
  • 01:20:53 and national youth council is a platform for youth to be part
  • 01:20:57 of processes, decision making, and hold leaders accountable.
  • 01:21:01 [BENJAMIN ONYEMA, NIGERIA] For a resilient recovery from the pandemic,
  • 01:21:03 you should use your various social media platforms
  • 01:21:06 to promote good information about the COVID-19 vaccine.
  • 01:21:09 This will help to reduce vaccine hesitancy
  • 01:21:11 that is very common among the Nigerian population today.
  • 01:21:14 With massive broad vaccination coverage,
  • 01:21:16 we can begin to release our foot off the pedal
  • 01:21:19 of some of the intervention and restrictions, lockdown
  • 01:21:22 that is hurting directly or indirectly hurting the economy.
  • 01:21:25 [JIN TANAKA, JAPAN] I believe that young people can contribute
  • 01:21:28 in the new jobs created by public project and at building green infrastructure
  • 01:21:33 will lead to a resilient recovery.
  • 01:21:36 [ONUM ANTHONY, NIGERIA] Reach out to young people considering factors such as sex, age, and gender.
  • 01:21:41 Putting diversity at the center, leveraging the agency of young people
  • 01:21:45 in the context of information, technology, social media,
  • 01:21:49 and networking is the way to go.
  • 01:21:52 The youth will be able to advocate for implementation of policies
  • 01:21:56 that help women-owned businesses that have been affected to be resuscitated,
  • 01:22:02 policies that foster youth employment,
  • 01:22:05 policies that tackle technological gaps that are visible
  • 01:22:09 in rural communities that hinder education.
  • 01:22:13 We are in an era whereby a whole lot of jobs has gone obsolete
  • 01:22:16 and new ones are springing up.
  • 01:22:17 They are springing up with different new skill set requirements.
  • 01:22:20 The youth should endeavor to engage in skill acquisition
  • 01:22:23 that will make them more employable.
  • 01:22:25 This will help to reduce the high rates of unemployment in the country today.
  • 01:22:29 In addition to that, government should make credit facilities,
  • 01:22:32 loans easily accessible to the youth.
  • 01:22:34 This will encourage business startups and SMEs that will directly boost the GDP.
  • 01:22:39 Listen to young people.
  • 01:22:40 Young people of the 21st century have a language.
  • 01:22:44 It's necessary, crucial, and pertinent
  • 01:22:46 for governments across the world to ask the question,
  • 01:22:49 "what is the language of young people?"
  • 01:22:51 [#YOUTHONCOVID19]
  • 01:23:01 [VIENTIANE, LAO PDR] <i>Sabaidi.</i> Hello, I'm Naidalaine Manosa in Vientiane Lao PDR
  • 01:23:08 and you are watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 01:23:15 And my colleague, Paul Blake now joins us
  • 01:23:16 in the World Bank Group headquarters.
  • 01:23:18 Paul let's talk polls.
  • 01:23:20 We've been running them all this week for each of our events
  • 01:23:22 so what was today's question?
  • 01:23:23 Yeah, that's right, we have a different poll each day.
  • 01:23:25 Today's poll is following the COVID-19 crisis,
  • 01:23:28 what is your biggest financial priority?
  • 01:23:31 And the options are save for the future,
  • 01:23:34 make wise investments, take out a loan, or pay off debts.
  • 01:23:37 And here's how everyone's voting.
  • 01:23:39 In first place, 55.8% of the vote goes to make wise investments.
  • 01:23:44 27.3% of the vote goes to save for the future, that's coming in second place.
  • 01:23:49 Third place is paying off debt, that's 11.8% of the vote.
  • 01:23:52 And finally taking out a loan,
  • 01:23:54 5.1% of folks say that is their biggest financial priority
  • 01:23:57 after the COVID-19 pandemic has abated.
  • 01:24:00 Okay, I was a bit surprised by that.
  • 01:24:03 I was a little surprised by it,
  • 01:24:04 although I would have thought paying off debts,
  • 01:24:05 but that's my own personal one.
  • 01:24:07 I've got some student loans that I need to pay off.
  • 01:24:10 [PAUL BLAKE; WORLD BANK GROUP] That'll be my priority for sure.
  • 01:24:11 I thought that would be a little higher up.
  • 01:24:12 I personally voted for save for the future.
  • 01:24:15 Which maybe I can argue that, I think that's making a wise investment.
  • 01:24:19 There's some overlap there, but yeah, it's good.
  • 01:24:21 I mean, if you save for the future,
  • 01:24:23 next crisis or anything that comes along, you'll have a little more cushion.
  • 01:24:27 Exactly, well, thanks for that, Paul.
  • 01:24:30 For sure.
  • 01:24:31 Now all this week, we've been speaking with country directors and managers
  • 01:24:34 [COUNTRY SPOTLIGHT ON INDIA] around the world on their climate challenges
  • 01:24:36 and the actions they've been taking in their countries.
  • 01:24:39 Today we head to India.
  • 01:24:40 It's from New Delhi that I spoke to country director Junaid Ahmad
  • 01:24:44 and I asked him what a resilient recovery looks like
  • 01:24:47 in the world's second most populous country.
  • 01:24:50 Paul, that's a very tough question you asked, but a very important one.
  • 01:24:54 [JUNAID KAMALAHMAD; COUNTRY DIRECTOR, INDIA] I think there are two aspects to what a resilient recovery looks like.
  • 01:24:58 One is first, we recognize that India is a federal system
  • 01:25:02 with states in size as big as Brazil and Nigeria and Germany.
  • 01:25:07 So any recovery has to be about a state recovery,
  • 01:25:11 and indeed the future of India lies in the states of India.
  • 01:25:14 But the biggest story that's coming out of India
  • 01:25:17 is how it's completely changing the social protection system.
  • 01:25:21 We're in a world of shocks.
  • 01:25:23 There's going to be more shocks in the future,
  • 01:25:24 whether it's climate shocks, pandemics, income shocks
  • 01:25:28 and countries have to begin to protect not only its poor and vulnerable,
  • 01:25:34 but also its workers against those shocks.
  • 01:25:36 And final point Paul, very, very important.
  • 01:25:39 The world's largest direct transfers to women-headed households.
  • 01:25:43 Three hundred million women-headed households
  • 01:25:46 get direct cash transfers, especially during shocks.
  • 01:25:50 That's what a recovery will look like in the future.
  • 01:25:53 Strong social protection to protect the poor,
  • 01:25:56 the vulnerable, and the human capital of India.
  • 01:25:59 So it sounds like social protection
  • 01:26:01 is playing this sort of central role in the recovery.
  • 01:26:04 When the bank is working with India,
  • 01:26:06 is it also really putting priority on sustainability in the recovery?
  • 01:26:12 Absolutely.
  • 01:26:13 There's some very, very important news coming out of India.
  • 01:26:17 First, India will be one of the very few countries
  • 01:26:21 that will meet its NDC commitments that it made in Paris at COP26.
  • 01:26:27 In particular, the energy intensity is coming down.
  • 01:26:30 The level of support that you see from a green transition coming up.
  • 01:26:35 The fact that it'll keep its NDC,
  • 01:26:37 so that its contribution to less than two degrees centigrade,
  • 01:26:41 is big news for India, but that's not the only news.
  • 01:26:45 India is in the middle of some complex development transitions.
  • 01:26:49 These are transitions in the urban sector,
  • 01:26:51 in the energy sector, in the transport sector, the technology sector,
  • 01:26:55 and these are only few of the sectors.
  • 01:26:57 And as India succeeds in completing its development transitions,
  • 01:27:01 it will help the world secure its climate transition.
  • 01:27:04 That's how powerful the impact of India is globally.
  • 01:27:08 And for those of us who aren't as familiar with India
  • 01:27:10 and it's kind of development story.
  • 01:27:12 Talk to me about the significance of some of these transitions
  • 01:27:15 and in particular, talk to me about what it's going to take
  • 01:27:17 to invest in the next wave of transition.
  • 01:27:19 So both the significance now
  • 01:27:21 and also what the world needs to do to invest in India's greener future.
  • 01:27:27 I'll give you an example.
  • 01:27:28 Today one of the biggest underground metros in a city is in Delhi
  • 01:27:35 and it transports millions of people, you know.
  • 01:27:38 Delhi's is a city of about 18 to 20 million people and growing.
  • 01:27:42 And that underground metro is a major public transport system.
  • 01:27:48 Sixty percent of the energy of Delhi's metro
  • 01:27:54 is from a renewable park in Madhya Pradesh.
  • 01:27:58 A state hundreds of miles away.
  • 01:28:01 And the World Bank has helped Madhya Pradesh develop that renewable energy park.
  • 01:28:07 And the grid is transmitting that renewable energy
  • 01:28:10 into financing this transport system in India.
  • 01:28:13 Perhaps one of the most powerful ones, that I often refer to,
  • 01:28:17 India is one of the few countries in the world
  • 01:28:19 that can have a passenger railway system and a freight railway system.
  • 01:28:24 Australia, Canada, China are the other countries that have it.
  • 01:28:28 But why would such a parallel system matter?
  • 01:28:31 As I mentioned earlier, if you can move freight
  • 01:28:34 from road onto the freight rail corridor, you'll take I would say 30, 40%
  • 01:28:41 of the greenhouse gas emission from road transport
  • 01:28:45 and put it into electric freight transport.
  • 01:28:49 Those are the type of shifts that we're making.
  • 01:28:51 And here, too, the World Bank has invested in the freight corridor of India.
  • 01:28:57 The next one, this is going to be the hardest question
  • 01:28:58 you'll probably get all day and it's about you.
  • 01:29:01 I want to know what's the best part of your job
  • 01:29:03 and what inspires you in your work?
  • 01:29:05 I wasn't expecting that question.
  • 01:29:08 Paul, we're very privileged to be working
  • 01:29:12 in a multilateral institution like the World Bank.
  • 01:29:15 It offers us a platform to make a difference in the world.
  • 01:29:19 And that I think is...
  • 01:29:21 perhaps the biggest source of inspiration all of us get.
  • 01:29:24 To be in India, which can make such a huge difference
  • 01:29:27 on climate change around the world, it is a privilege.
  • 01:29:31 If the World Bank did not exist today, we would have to recreate it.
  • 01:29:35 And that's why I say it's a privilege to be working in this institution.
  • 01:29:40 Some inspiring words.
  • 01:29:41 Junaid Ahmad, country director for India, thank you so much.
  • 01:29:44 Thank you.
  • 01:29:45 [KINGSTON, JAMAICA] <i>Wah Gwaan.</i> I'm Charmine Wright from Kingston Jamaica
  • 01:29:49 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 01:29:54 [LIVE: WASHINGTON, DC] And now let's check in on the social media scene.
  • 01:29:56 Paul, what can you tell us about today's conversation?
  • 01:29:59 I've just been talking to our social media moderators,
  • 01:30:01 Who've been across the conversation throughout the day
  • 01:30:04 and they said that many people out there are reiterating online
  • 01:30:08 the need for comprehensive solutions that are green, resilient, and inclusive.
  • 01:30:12 We just had that conversation with World Bank Group president, David Malpass.
  • 01:30:15 And he talked a lot about the intersection between debt
  • 01:30:18 and finding these solutions.
  • 01:30:21 They've also told us, the moderators have told us,
  • 01:30:23 that a lot of the conversation is happening
  • 01:30:25 in Nigeria, Kenya, India, Canada, Ghana, the UK,
  • 01:30:30 the Philippines, and Mexico.
  • 01:30:31 So hello to everyone out there in those countries
  • 01:30:33 and in other countries, really appreciate you taking part.
  • 01:30:36 [JOIN THE CONVERSATION: #DEBT4DEV] Yeah, that's great.
  • 01:30:37 And we also have some notable comments coming in on Twitter.
  • 01:30:41 Can you tell me about some of those mentions.
  • 01:30:43 For sure, we heard from Badruddeen Naseem.
  • 01:30:47 They are with the Maldives Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
  • 01:30:50 and they wrote in to say that learning more about debt financing
  • 01:30:53 and how countries can have a resilient recovery
  • 01:30:55 is the main reason they tuned in
  • 01:30:57 and what they were looking forward to hearing today.
  • 01:31:00 We also heard from Richard Watts, a senior advisor at Save the Children,
  • 01:31:03 who tweeted that the end of the debt service suspension initiative
  • 01:31:07 should be needs-based.
  • 01:31:08 And he's hoping to hear more new ideas,
  • 01:31:12 to get private creditors, to participate in debt relief efforts.
  • 01:31:15 We heard from Kevin Watkins earlier in the program,
  • 01:31:18 also at Save the Children there.
  • 01:31:19 [JOIN THE CONVERSATION: #DEBT4DEV] So if you missed that, be sure to watch it back, it was a great conversation.
  • 01:31:22 And we finally have Sani from Nigeria on Twitter,
  • 01:31:24 and he was saying, he's interested in A long-term overhaul
  • 01:31:26 to solve Africa's debt crisis.
  • 01:31:28 So great to see all this conversation on Twitter,
  • 01:31:31 but it's also happening on LinkedIn.
  • 01:31:32 So tell me a bit about what's happening there.
  • 01:31:35 For sure, we heard from Elizabeth Irungu.
  • 01:31:38 She is a financial analyst from Kenya.
  • 01:31:40 She commented that the uncertainty around eight to five jobs has been magnified
  • 01:31:43 by the pandemic, meaning kind of our everyday jobs.
  • 01:31:46 And she was saying that investing wisely
  • 01:31:48 will reduce overdependence on salary loans.
  • 01:31:50 We know how she probably voted in the poll, making wise investments,
  • 01:31:53 saving for the future like you there.
  • 01:31:56 And then we also heard from Akil, a senior accountant in Ethiopia,
  • 01:32:00 and they wrote that making wise investments is the best choice,
  • 01:32:03 especially for import dependent countries.
  • 01:32:05 So it really was the top vote.
  • 01:32:06 It does sound like it for sure.
  • 01:32:08 Well, we really love seeing all this conversation
  • 01:32:11 happening on our social platforms
  • 01:32:13 and hope it continues for the next couple of days,
  • 01:32:15 but now let's go to our second country spotlight.
  • 01:32:18 [COUNTRY SPOTLIGHT ON BENIN] And for this we're headed to Benin.
  • 01:32:20 That's right, and it's from the capital city of Porto-Novo
  • 01:32:22 that I recently spoke to country director, Atou Seck.
  • 01:32:25 And I started by asking him about the challenges
  • 01:32:27 that everyday Beninese face when it comes to climate and COVID-19.
  • 01:32:31 [ATOU SECK; COUNTRY MANAGER, BENIN] Benin's major challenge is job creation, decent job creation,
  • 01:32:39 access to education and health services,
  • 01:32:41 as well as water and electricity.
  • 01:32:45 So there are also climate related challenges,
  • 01:32:48 including coastal erosion and also deforestation
  • 01:32:53 that affect communities' livelihoods.
  • 01:32:56 You mentioned there some of the climate challenges.
  • 01:32:58 Can you talk to me about the West Africa Coastal Areas Management System,
  • 01:33:03 and specifically, I understand that Benin has a 121 kilometer-long coastline.
  • 01:33:09 How does the project, the Areas Management program affect that coastline?
  • 01:33:16 You may know that Benin coastal zone is extremely vulnerable.
  • 01:33:22 It is exposed to the highest risk of coastal erosion in the Gulf of Guinea.
  • 01:33:27 Erosion can reach up to 15 meters per year here.
  • 01:33:34 The country also is exposed to heavy rain and floods.
  • 01:33:39 So, for example, in 2018 there was a flood
  • 01:33:45 that would have affected 54 villages amongst the river, Mono river.
  • 01:33:53 So Waka provided funds for emergency protection work
  • 01:33:58 to stabilize the river bank.
  • 01:34:02 Thanks to which more than 25,000 vulnerable people
  • 01:34:08 living along the river were protected from being flooded.
  • 01:34:14 And I understand your climate portfolio, isn't limited to the coast.
  • 01:34:17 You're also doing work on Benin's timber resources.
  • 01:34:22 Can you tell us a little bit about that?
  • 01:34:23 Benin natural forest harvested in an uncontrolled manner.
  • 01:34:31 For timber but also for fuel wood.
  • 01:34:36 Eighty-five percent of the people, population depend on wood
  • 01:34:40 and charcoal for their cooking needs.
  • 01:34:44 And furthermore natural forests are harvested for timber,
  • 01:34:49 to make furniture or for export.
  • 01:34:53 As a result Benin lost over 215,000 hectares between 2016 and 2017.
  • 01:35:03 So to reduce this human pressure on natural forests,
  • 01:35:08 we finance the kind of forest management project
  • 01:35:13 that is investing in large scale forest plantation
  • 01:35:17 as an alternative to the use of natural forest for fuel wood and timber.
  • 01:35:23 The aim is to establish 22,000 hectares of fuel wood and timber plantation
  • 01:35:31 To contribute to the much needed wood energy demand
  • 01:35:35 in big cities, such as Cotonou, Abomey-Calavi, and Porto-Novo.
  • 01:35:41 Fantastic, and just to shift gears here a little bit,
  • 01:35:44 it's 2021, we're a year into the COVID-19 pandemic.
  • 01:35:47 I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about that
  • 01:35:49 and ask about the situation in Benin.
  • 01:35:52 Tell me what does a resilient recovery from COVID-19
  • 01:35:55 look like in the context of Benin?
  • 01:35:59 You must learn from this crisis
  • 01:36:01 and see it as an opportunity to build a better world.
  • 01:36:06 It has not been easy for any human being around the globe
  • 01:36:12 and even worse for the most vulnerable people.
  • 01:36:16 This is definitely a new world now,
  • 01:36:19 and we need to pay more attention to nature
  • 01:36:22 and be more careful with climate crisis.
  • 01:36:24 We have been alarmed how deforestation, for example,
  • 01:36:27 is bringing the wildlife closer to human beings
  • 01:36:31 and how we can work to avoid diseases such as COVID-19.
  • 01:36:38 So this is in my opinion, how sustainable recovery...
  • 01:36:42 What it will look like in the years to come.
  • 01:36:45 Just to wrap up on a lighter note, for those of us who might not be familiar
  • 01:36:49 with you or the country of Benin,
  • 01:36:51 talk to us about the best part of working there
  • 01:36:53 and what inspires you in your job.
  • 01:36:55 I'm really energized working daily with dedicated professionals in Cotonou
  • 01:37:02 and in the bank ecosystem and with clients.
  • 01:37:08 These people are working relentlessly.
  • 01:37:11 Every single bank or bank staff must keep in mind
  • 01:37:16 that our mission is to serve people.
  • 01:37:19 I feel privileged to lead such a talented team
  • 01:37:25 that is more virtual now and dedicated also.
  • 01:37:30 I think I would agree with you on that.
  • 01:37:31 I think part of the best part of working here is all the great people.
  • 01:37:35 But Atou Seck, country manager for Benin,
  • 01:37:37 thank you so much for taking the time this morning.
  • 01:37:39 Thank you very much, it was a pleasure having the conversation with you.
  • 01:37:44 [MONTELÍBANO, COLOMBIA] Hola, I am Jairo Hidoya in Montelíbano Columbia,
  • 01:37:46 and you're watching the World Bank Group IMF Spring Meetings.
  • 01:37:52 Well, it's time to wind down for the day,
  • 01:37:54 but before we say goodbye,
  • 01:37:55 Paul, what can folks expect tomorrow and the day after?
  • 01:37:57 So it's hard to believe, but two days down, two more to go.
  • 01:38:00 We're halfway through the public events of the Spring Meetings 2021.
  • 01:38:04 Tomorrow, the focus turns to climate
  • 01:38:07 and on Friday, the focus turns to vaccines.
  • 01:38:09 If anyone missed any of the programming yesterday,
  • 01:38:12 if you tuned in late today, or you want to watch anything back
  • 01:38:15 you can do so on the World Bank's YouTube channel.
  • 01:38:17 [JOIN US TOMORROW: LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] Be sure to subscribe while you're there.
  • 01:38:18 But all the events will be there including our live discussions
  • 01:38:22 that come off the back of them.
  • 01:38:24 And I should also mention that tomorrow's live discussion,
  • 01:38:27 you'll be moderating that
  • 01:38:28 with Mari Pangestu and Stephanie von Friedeburg all about climate.
  • 01:38:31 So get those questions in, live.worldbank.org.
  • 01:38:34 Get them in tonight, this afternoon.
  • 01:38:36 And we'll get some of these questions to Mari and Stephanie tomorrow.
  • 01:38:39 Yeah, I think it's gonna be a great conversation, looking forward to it.
  • 01:38:42 Thank you, Paul.
  • 01:38:43 Of course, thank you, Sri.
  • 01:38:44 And thank you everyone for joining us today,
  • 01:38:46 and please do join us tomorrow at 11:00 a.m., Washington, DC time
  • 01:38:50 for our event on climate.
  • 01:38:52 Until then goodbye.
  • 01:39:00 [UPBEAT MUSIC]
Read the chat
Torie Smith

Hello everyone, and welcome to Rethinking Debt: Financing the Future Amid Crisis. 
Wed, 04/07/2021 - 11:41
Torie Smith

While we wait for the event to begin, learn more about the Debt Service Suspension Initiative (DSSI), which will be a key topic of today’s discussion. Since it took effect on May 1, 2020, the initiative has delivered roughly $5 billion in relief to more than 40 eligible countries.
Wed, 04/07/2021 - 11:42
Musa. Kelleh

Hi I'm musa from Liberia thanks for everything
Wed, 04/07/2021 - 11:55
vasa

Ukraine here
Wed, 04/07/2021 - 11:55
Ismaila A. Hassan

Hello from Jigawa in Nigeria.
Wed, 04/07/2021 - 12:00
2021 Spring Meetings

Watch the full replays of the Spring Meetings 2021 World Bank Group public events