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This event took place on April 22, 2022

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00:01 [Upbeat Music]
00:12 [Spring Meetings 2022]
00:15 [Fragility & Conflict]
00:18 [Climate Change]
00:21 [Food Insecurity]
00:23 [Compounding Risks]
00:25 [Forced Displacement]
00:28 [ON THE FRONTLINES OF RISING FRAGILITY]
00:38 [Kathleen Hays] Welcome to this very special World Bank event,
00:41 On the Front Lines of Rising Fragility.
00:44 I'm Kathleen Hays.
00:45 I'm Bloomberg's Television and Radio Global Economics and Policy Editor,
00:51 and I am going to be your moderator today.
00:54 We're meeting here in Washington, DC,
00:57 Spring Meetings of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.
01:00 Unfortunately, under the show of war.
01:02 [Kathleen Hays, Global Economic and Policy Editor, Bloomberg]
01:03 In the last few months, the threats to stability in Asia, Latin America, Africa,
01:07 and now the war in Ukraine, Europe joins that list.
01:11 It's becoming crystal clear no country will be untouched
01:14 by the ruffle effects of the war in Ukraine.
01:16 What can we do to help?
01:19 Today we're going to hear from experts, changemakers,
01:21 people on the front lines.
01:23 We're going to learn how the international community
01:25 can come together to help the most vulnerable people.
01:29 A reminder, we're streaming this event in English, French, Spanish and Arabic
01:32 [LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] at live.worldbank.org.
01:34 We want to reach as many people as possible.
01:36 Let's start with a look at what's coming up over the next hour.
01:42 [COMING UP]
01:47 [RESPONDING TO RISING FRAGILITY]
01:49 [David Malpass, President, World Bank Group]
01:52 [YEMEN: CHALLENGES AND PRIORITIES]
01:53 [Maeen Abdulmalik Saeed, Prime Minister, Yemen]
01:57 [ENGAGING DURING CRISES]
01:59 [Hervé Ndoba, Minister of Finance and Budget, Central African Republic]
02:01 [Svenja Schulze, Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development, Germany]
02:05 [Catherine Russel, Executive Director, UNICEF]
02:07 [Axel Van Trotsenburg, Managing Director of Operations, World Bank]
02:12 [A REFUGEE'S STORY]
02:13 [Victor Ochen, Founder and Executive Director, African Youth Initiative Network]
02:17 [RESPONDING TO THE REFUGEE CRISIS]
02:18 [Ion Gumene, State Secretary, Ministry of Finance] [Moldova]
02:19 [Alejandra Botero, Director General, Department of Planning] [Colombia]
02:21 [Raouf Mazou, Assistant High Commissioner for Operations UNHCR]
02:26 [Kathleen Hays] As I watch those pictures worldwide, I'm getting very excited.
02:29 We're going to have some really interesting conversations ahead.
02:32 Before, however, we're going to dive into our first discussion.
02:35 We're going to hear now
02:36 from David Malpass, President of the World Bank Group.
02:41 [David Malpass] Thank you for joining us today.
02:43 This year's Spring Meetings are taking place at a very difficult time.
02:47 I've been deeply shocked and horrified at the war in Ukraine.
02:52 It has already led 4.6 million Ukrainians to flee their country,
02:57 while an additional seven million are internally displaced.
03:01 The war comes at a time when the economic recovery
03:04 from COVID-19 had already begun to falter.
03:08 The ongoing war will further erode short term economic prospects.
03:13 Countries in Europe and Central Asia will be directly affected
03:17 through refugee inflows, trade and remittances,
03:21 as well as increased uncertainty and risk aversion.
03:25 Globally, countries will suffer from spikes in food and energy prices.
03:35 The poorest and most vulnerable countries will be hit the hardest.
03:39 In response to these challenges, we will be discussing options
03:43 with our board for a 15-month crisis response envelope
03:47 of around $170 billion dollars
03:50 to cover April 2022 through June 2023.
03:55 This extraordinary surge of support is being designed to help
04:00 developing countries address the setbacks caused by overlapping crises,
04:05 impacts of the war, food and fuel price shocks,
04:08 disruptions to trade, supply chains and investment,
04:12 as well as the ongoing threats from pandemic, climate change
04:16 and unsustainable debt.
04:19 The war in Ukraine comes at a time when fragility, violent conflict
04:24 and social unrest have increased dramatically.
04:27 We estimate that 39 of our 189 member countries
04:33 are experiencing open conflict situations or remain worryingly fragile.
04:39 Conflicts are triggering the rapid displacement of millions of people.
04:44 By the end of 2020, the number of people who were forcibly displaced reached
04:49 a record high of 82 million, and it keeps growing.
04:54 This reflects major displacement crises in the Sahel and the Horn of Africa
04:59 and in countries around the globe.
05:02 Afghanistan, Haiti, Myanmar, Syria, Yemen, to name just a few.
05:08 Conflicts are further fostered by the flow of weapons.
05:12 We need to stop the flow of weapons into fragile and conflict affected situations
05:17 and help reduce the stockpiles of firearms and landmines
05:22 that remain from previous outbreaks of violence.
05:25 Working on the front lines of rising fragility requires
05:29 dedicated financing, international collaboration
05:33 and sound analytical work, and private sector involvement.
05:38 And yet the success is not guaranteed.
05:41 First, there's financing.
05:43 Our financial support to fragile and conflict affected countries
05:47 increased four-fold, from 3.9 billion dollars in 2015
05:52 to 15.8 billion dollars in 2020.
05:56 We have also increased our financing
05:59 to tackle forced displacement during IDA18 and IDA19.
06:05 We made a combined total of 3.4 billion dollars of dedicated funding
06:09 available under the window for host communities and refugees,
06:15 and we have a further allocation of 2.4 billion dollars planned under IDA20.
06:21 We have also shown that we can act swiftly.
06:24 IDA participants have just endorsed 1 billion dollars to Ukraine
06:28 and 100 million dollars to Moldova from IDA19.
06:32 The Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund, ARTF, which the Bank administers,
06:38 provided 280 million dollars to UNICEF
06:42 and the World Food Program for humanitarian support.
06:45 Second, international coordination and analytical work are vital.
06:50 We must work in concert with diplomatic security and humanitarian actors
06:56 in increasingly complex and protracted crises.
07:01 Sustainable peace requires engagement on all fronts
07:06 by development partners in line with their comparative advantages.
07:10 The launch of our FCV strategy two years ago underscored
07:14 a change in how we approach these situations
07:18 and provides a strong foundation for our long-term engagement
07:22 before, during, and after situations of conflict and fragility.
07:28 We have strengthened our analytics,
07:30 become more flexible in our operations, and invested heavily in institutions
07:36 and infrastructure in the most fragile environments.
07:41 Finally, it's important to involve the private sector early on.
07:45 Even in the most difficult of situations,
07:48 private sector provides jobs and services, and keeps markets moving.
07:54 In many cases, it's the primary bulwark
07:57 against acute vulnerability and deprivation.
08:01 For example, in Jordan, we have supported private sector jobs
08:04 and financial inclusion of refugees.
08:07 In the Sahel, IFC is investing to increase financial and insurance services
08:12 for small enterprises owned or led by women.
08:17 As development actors,
08:19 we must not wait for the conflict to end before we engage and start rebuilding.
08:25 Today, we will hear from leading world figures
08:28 on key aspects of the rising conflict and fragility
08:33 and what we must do to address these challenges.
08:36 I want to thank you.
08:37 I wish you all a good discussion, and I look forward to hearing your ideas.
08:43 [SUVA, FIJI]
08:44 [Sameer] I'm Sammer in Suva, Fiji,
08:46 and you're watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
08:52 [Kathleen Hays] Let me also say thank you, David,
08:54 for laying out the challenges
08:55 and how the international community can be part of the solutions.
08:59 As for you, you can share your thoughts on those remarks
09:02 and the conversations to come using the hashtag #RisingFragility.
09:06 You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, anyone?
09:10 [#RISINGFRAGILITY] All of them.
09:11 You can also post comments and questions at live.worldbank.org.
09:15 And believe me, we're going to be watching those very closely.
09:18 That's where we have experts standing by
09:20 to answer your questions in English, Spanish, French and Arabic.
09:23 You can see they're hard at work doing their job.
09:27 We're just very excited they're there.
09:28 Again, very excited you're going to be in touch with us.
09:30 By the way, we're going to put some of the most popular questions
09:33 to two Bank experts live at the end of today's event.
09:37 First, though, to really understand
09:39 the scale of the challenge, let's look at some of the facts.
09:41 We talk about looking at the numbers,
09:43 looking at data, and so does the World Bank.
09:46 Let me show you this chart.
09:47 It's where the world's extreme poor live.
09:50 The Orange bar on the left represents
09:53 the number located in fragile and conflict affected situations, FCS.
09:59 Now, take a look at the right hand bar.
10:01 It's much bigger.
10:02 It's the number not living in those challenging settings.
10:05 At least that was the situation in the year 2000.
10:08 Four out of five of the world's extreme poor
10:11 lived in economies not suffering from fragility or conflict.
10:16 Now we'll show you what has happened as the century has progressed.
10:21 Proportion of poor people living in those non fragile countries.
10:26 You can see it falling at quite a fast rate.
10:28 That's because poverty in these economies
10:31 was massively declining, a very good trend.
10:34 Now, today it's estimated that more than half the world's poor,
10:37 however, still reside in economies that are suffering
10:40 from fragility and conflict improvement, but not really perfect yet.
10:44 So now let's take a look at the projections, too.
10:47 By 2030, it's not nearly two thirds of the world's poor will be living
10:51 in these challenging situations.
10:54 This is an important finding as well.
10:57 You can see now, I hope,
11:00 how important it is eliminating extreme poverty.
11:03 It requires an urgent focus on these very fragile contexts,
11:08 they are still so many in the world and in some cases there and getting worse.
11:13 Earlier, I had the great pleasure of speaking to
11:15 His Excellency Maeen Adulmalik Saeed, Prime Minister of Yemen.
11:19 I started by asking the Prime Minister
11:21 about the developmental challenges repeated crises have presented
11:26 and the key steps the government has taken to address them.
11:30 Your Excellency, Yemen has been living through
11:33 a prolonged series of crises, conflict, the pandemic, climate events.
11:39 These all present big developmental challenges.
11:43 What are the key actions the government's been taking to address these challenges?
11:48 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] Thank you, Kathleen.
11:49 Like you mentioned, Yemen is facing a complicated, severe crisis
11:56 and now accumulated during the seven years before humanitarian crisis.
12:02 We have degenerating an economy, UNDB has estimated the Yemeni economy
12:08 has set back two decades and it would go back maybe to four decades
12:12 if it continues to lose 126 billion US dollar in total in GDP during the six years before.
12:20 We have 4 million IDPs, internally displaced people.
12:24 We have 20 million food insecure persons in Yemen.
12:29 So all that accumulated and also the COVID-19 that we faced in 2020.
12:33 The main concern for the government is to preserve the economy.
12:40 We don't want the people to lose the purchasing power.
12:43 We need to control the duration of the currency and surging the inflation.
12:48 This is the main concerns that we have during the last years.
12:53 We took some action reforms in the central bank.
12:57 We control the budget deficit.
12:59 We bring it back to 30% in 2021
13:04 compared to 54% in 2020.
13:10 Revenues were raised from oil sector and non oil sector
13:13 traced 47% during 2021 compared to 2020.
13:18 This is one of the main things that we want to control
13:23 and we inject money to the health sector so we can face COVID-19 pandemic.
13:29 We build around 26 isolation camp around the country, 14 oxygen factories.
13:37 We face a lot of difficulties providing oxygen to the isolation camps.
13:42 We built that in 2020 and 2021,
13:45 enhancing the capacity of the health sector and run vaccination campaigns.
13:52 All that with the support of the international community.
13:56 [Kathleen Hays] Let's talk more about the role the international community has played.
14:01 What steps have been most important?
14:03 Where could this assistance, this cooperation improve?
14:10 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] It's important and one of the key issues is
14:14 to stay engaging, engaging in those crises,
14:19 because sometimes to close doors causes a lot of problems.
14:24 The cost of disengaging is high.
14:29 IDA, for example, is an example of global solidarity.
14:35 The amount that they support countries like Yemen helps in our situation.
14:40 For the international community is important to stay engaging
14:44 and also mitigating risk rather than avoiding risks is important.
14:52 That's why an examples is the World Bank's interventions during the crisis.
14:57 I think they have an example in Yemen and we work together and we enhance that.
15:02 Also presence on the ground.
15:05 If the donors know more about the political and economic atmosphere
15:12 inside the country, they can design good ways
15:17 to implement and help the country.
15:19 Also balancing between emergency response and long-term development.
15:26 It's always emergency response, but we need to balance that.
15:29 We need to capitalize in more sustainable and inclusive growth.
15:34 That's important.
15:36 This is one of the main issues that I can recall.
15:41 [Kathleen Hays] The world is watching the war in Ukraine.
15:43 We know there are several countries around the world that are in crisis.
15:48 What lessons can they learn from Yemen,
15:51 from the steps you have taken, how you've gotten through this?
15:55 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] We are in major problems with food insecurity.
16:00 I mentioned it at the beginning.
16:01 We have 20 million Yemeni insecured or food insecured.
16:05 The war in Ukraine shows how fragile we could end up by the end of this year.
16:12 Not only Yemen, other countries are facing crisis similar to that.
16:17 We have 31% of our wheat come from Ukraine.
16:24 At the beginning this year, when we set up with the traders,
16:27 we sit with them and we try to find different sources for that.
16:32 That's why the wheat prices have raised seven times between 2015 until now.
16:40 In a country like Yemen with the loss of purchasing power,
16:44 that affects a big sector of people.
16:48 That's why we think about all the situation.
16:52 We are facing a devastating situation by the end of this year.
16:59 I think seizing a window of hope is important.
17:04 Now in Yemen, we have the truth.
17:07 In countries facing crises, seizing the opportunities
17:11 for bringing peace is important and giving hope to the people.
17:16 Also there is a different element, like supporting private sector.
17:22 In countries like Yemen,
17:24 if the place is more secure, people can create jobs.
17:28 That's why we always support the private sector.
17:32 They can work and we can rely on the private sector to help us.
17:37 And also aligned with that is investing in human capital.
17:42 Another important issue is also to scaling support to countries like Yemen.
17:48 Unprecedented times need unprecedented actions.
17:54 It's not the response for the crisis, not the crisis itself.
17:58 The response of the crisis determine
18:01 how we can build back better after the crisis.
18:05 So the response should be unique in response to the crisis itself.
18:14 It's one of the lessons learned from the Ukraine-Russian war
18:21 that affects the whole world, not only Yemen.
18:24 We are talking about fragility and fragile countries facing crisis.
18:31 As we talked in the beginning, we have multiple layers of crisis
18:36 aligned with COVID-19 and natural disasters.
18:39 And we face that as a government in different governments
18:42 in the many different crisis we've had.
18:50 [Kathleen Hays] You Excellency, Thank you very much
18:53 for an illuminating and inspiring conversation.
18:58 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] Thank you.
19:01 [BUJUMBURA, BURUNDI]
19:01 [Sandrine] I'm Sandrine in Bujumura, Burundi
19:05 and you're watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
19:12 [Kathleen Hays] Now we're going to look at
19:13 how to actually support fragile communities,
19:16 how to provide immediate aid during conflict
19:18 and not lose focus on long-term resilience.
19:21 Our guests today are all leaders in the Humanitarian-Development-Peace Nexus.
19:27 Hervé Ndoba is Minister of Finance for the Central African Republic,
19:31 Svenja Schulze is Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development
19:35 in Germany.
19:37 Axel Van Trotsenburg is the Managing Director of Operations here at the World Bank.
19:41 and Catherine Russell is Executive Director for UNICEF.
19:45 I welcome you all.
19:46 It's a busy week and I'm glad you could take time ever.
19:48 Hervé, let me start with you because Central African Republic
19:51 has been going through this transition from a long period.
19:55 Rocky period of instability, lasting recovery.
19:58 That's quite an accomplishment.
20:00 How did that occur? How did you make that happen?
20:04 How has the World Bank supported your efforts?
20:07 [Hervé Ndoba] Thank you very much for this question and for the opportunity
20:09 to give in and talk about Central African Republic.
20:12 My country, which is known or the last three decades,
20:15 to live in a period of social crisis.
20:21 We actually have been able to establish security into the country.
20:27 We are working very hard to try to sell the different ways in order to
20:34 change the cycle of fragility, conflicts and violence in the country
20:40 just by having some measures that we have started to set into the country.
20:49 Some of those measures are political measures
20:54 and some are financial measures.
20:56 For the political measures, for example,
20:59 we've started to establish some tools into the country,
21:04 for example, the DDRR, which is demobilization, disarmaments,
21:10 reintegration, and repatriation
21:13 of people who used to be in the war
21:20 so that we can integrate them back into the society.
21:27 We also have setting up another tool which is APPR,
21:32 which is political agreements with all the stakeholders of those conflicts.
21:40 [LIVE: ENGAGING DURING CRISES] Because just for you to take into account,
21:44 at the high take of the crisis,
21:48 we count 17 army groups in the country.
21:54 But we have been able to manage all those army group
21:57 with these different tools.
22:00 We are actually moving forward to the Republican dialogue,
22:05 which is very important in order to understand what is going on in this country
22:09 and why we are facing those cycles of war for those three decades.
22:17 Having said that, we are also doing important things
22:24 on the financial parts because of course, when we're facing fragility,
22:29 the fiscal space is very reduced and we have to find solutions
22:35 in order to increase this fiscal space so that the government can ensure
22:41 the expenses which it has to face.
22:49 Then, we have started a cleanup of the public financing.
22:55 This is very important and I'm very pleased to have
22:58 the World Bank on the call because we have two projects
23:01 which are very important for us, Digitalization, for example,
23:05 and we are working on the subject in order to move forward.
23:09 [Kathleen Hays] It's interesting though, how you show us
23:11 there are so many different elements that they all come together
23:14 to help create this moving forward and stability.
23:16 Svenja, for Germany, exciting year in many ways,
23:20 but you're hosting the G7 presidency this year.
23:24 Germany the largest, richest country in Europe.
23:27 You play a very important role in so many of these the questions now,
23:30 fragility hotspots, you've already stepped up
23:33 and done a lot for Ukraine and surrounding countries.
23:35 But broadly speaking, who's on your radar screen
23:38 and how do you target responses to countries and situations
23:41 that are so very different?
23:43 [Svenja Schulze] It is very important to see we have overlapping crises.
23:47 We have the crisis because of the pandemic.
23:50 We still have not won the fight against the pandemic.
23:53 We see the climate crisis.
23:54 We see the loss of biodiversity.
23:57 Now, the war against Ukraine and all the consequences we see in the world.
24:01 So having that all together that needs really coordinated answers
24:06 and someone need to coordinate these answers.
24:09 We see that G7 has to take a leading role
24:12 and that the World Bank needs to have a leading role.
24:16 Just an example for food security.
24:20 We see a lot of action now, but the coordination and leadership
24:25 in this action to say, okay, we share our analysis,
24:29 we just discuss who is responsible for what
24:33 this coordination, that is what we like to bring forward.
24:37 We are very happy the World Bank is able to coordinate that,
24:42 and we can help to deal with that.
24:45 I think that is really important.
24:47 We need to change the agricultural system.
24:50 We need to adapt on what climate change is bringing with us.
24:54 We need short-term action and long-term engagement.
24:58 To bring that together, that is the challenge we have.
25:02 [Kathleen Hays] I think a lot of people in our government always understand
25:03 the importance of all that coordination, communication, et cetera.
25:07 So, Catherine, hundreds of millions of children
25:10 have had their education not just disrupted,
25:13 but maybe permanently damaged, thrown off track around the world.
25:18 It seems also in some of the poorest countries,
25:21 they're going to have the hardest time catching up
25:22 because they don't have the richness of resources.
25:25 How is UNICEF..?
25:26 Are you going to use all the partnerships you have
25:29 with so many countries, so many other agencies to work on this?
25:32 [Catherine Russel] I think, first of all, you're 100% right, that even before COVID,
25:37 we had a global humanitarian and learning crisis in this world, right.
25:43 We had 260 million kids who weren't in school.
25:46 This is pre COVID. Right.
25:48 We had 50% of 10 year olds in low and middle-income countries
25:53 couldn't understand a simple sentence,
25:55 read and understand the symbols.
25:56 So now, we have COVID, on top of that, we've had school closures.
25:59 We have 23 countries still where schools are not fully back on track.
26:04 These children have been out of classes for so long,
26:07 they've lost so much learning.
26:09 Our estimate now is that it's close to 70% of children
26:12 in some of these countries at age 10 don't have very basic skills.
26:17 So you're right, UNICEF is very focused on this,
26:20 very committed to this, but we cannot do this alone.
26:22 We need partnerships.
26:24 One really good example of that is the work we've been doing in Yemen,
26:27 where we work with several people,
26:29 Save the Children is doing teacher training,
26:31 the World Bank has thankfully come and done financing for us.
26:36 UNICEF is doing a lot of work building and refurbishing schools
26:41 and also providing a lot of the basics for children to learn.
26:47 Then, the World Food Program is they are providing food.
26:51 So everybody comes together.
26:53 To spend this point,
26:55 you have to have the coordination efforts,
26:57 and the bank is critical with that.
26:59 I mean, we work very closely with the bank in many places.
27:02 We know how to do that, but it is not easy
27:04 to coordinate in these places.
27:06 But we now have 1000 schools that are open
27:08 and operating in Yemen,
27:09 where it's a dreadful situation overall.
27:12 And so many children are still out of school
27:14 and hungry and lots of problems.
27:15 But you can show that we can make progress
27:18 even in the most difficult circumstances.
27:19 When you say that 1000 schools open
27:21 I just almost kept goosebumps.
27:22 It's really very exciting.
27:23 Axel, I want to ask you about the Fragility,
27:28 Conflict and Violence Strategy of the World Bank
27:30 officially in place with real focus in the last couple years.
27:33 Obviously, it's something the World Bank
27:35 has been involved in for decades.
27:37 In this, what we have been calling
27:40 the FCV focus and strategy.
27:43 What have you learned?
27:46 What would you say that the main focus is now?
27:49 [Axel Van Trotsenburg] Well, you just heard it.
27:51 I always concentrate this where is the extreme poverty.
27:54 And increasingly in the FCV,
27:56 the extreme poverty is concentrated.
27:59 And what we have had for decades,
28:01 far too long was a paradigm of pillars.
28:04 Here you have humanitarian, here you have development
28:07 Here you have security.
28:08 So now we talk about the Nexus,
28:10 and here is basically what it is.
28:13 Nobody can do it alone.
28:14 You have to work together and see how we can complement
28:19 each other's strengths.
28:21 And this is badly needed, not only for actually having
28:25 results on the ground,
28:27 but actually the situations are difficult.
28:29 [LIVE: BUILDING LONG-TERM RESILIENCE]
28:30 They can take in Afghanistan,
28:31 when you cannot really deal with the Taliban,
28:35 but, at the same time, people are suffering.
28:38 How can you deal with that?
28:39 The UN is a great organ, UNICEF, WFP,
28:46 but there are many other interventions that you have to do.
28:50 That means that you have to coordinate that
28:52 smartly with bilateral, with multilateral.
28:55 I think that is where we need...
28:59 what I'm learning is actually most what I've learned now
29:02 with Afghanistan since August last year
29:06 is we have an Afghanistan reconstruction trust fund
29:09 where donors are coordinated
29:11 and where we are actually discussing the hard questions,
29:15 not to find an excuse not to do it, but to do it.
29:19 I think we have been able to make progress,
29:21 because you need also to find consensus on this.
29:25 Ultimately, what is from an operational perspective,
29:28 about a third of the IDA resources
29:32 are going to FCV countries.
29:35 And it's also the right thing to do.
29:37 But we have also to realize
29:39 that the last year has been a total disaster.
29:41 What FCV countries started was coup d'états
29:45 in Myanmar, you saw Afghanistan, Yemen,
29:49 Horn of Africa, Sahel, and not to forget Haiti.
29:53 So, we have a lot of countries where we need to have this.
29:56 The most important thing is we need to stay engaged.
30:00 We cannot walk away just because it is difficult.
30:03 [Kathleen Hays] Well, let's move to the question for everybody
30:08 a little bit more of a lightning round here,
30:11 because now you have a better sense of all the shocks,
30:14 all you're dealing with.
30:15 I think you put that more specific steps
30:18 in individuals, real people into this.
30:20 The last couple of years have been especially bad.
30:23 Who knew that the pandemic would also have these
30:25 terrible climate events, big fire all over the world, etc.
30:30 And of course, now war in more places, in Ukraine.
30:33 So, with that in mind, looking ahead,
30:36 what should be on our radar screens?
30:38 What's the first one or two things that
30:40 Hervé, you are going to be looking at
30:42 that you want the people who are listening to think about?
30:45 [Hervé Ndoba] I think for me,
30:47 one thing which is very important is the coordination.
30:51 We heard about it already.
30:53 Ion has talked about our coordination,
30:55 the World Bank also.
30:56 It is very important because in our country, for example,
31:00 we realize that after having made some work
31:05 together with all the partners,
31:08 then we realized that sometimes
31:09 there's a lot of money which are put on
31:12 only one topic or two topics and the others are not covered.
31:17 We have to prioritize what we want to do
31:23 with this money which comes from the partners.
31:28 This is the first point.
31:30 The second point is just that
31:31 we learned from this global situation in the world
31:35 that the countries which are facing fragility
31:39 are in a situation where they should invest
31:44 in their infrastructure
31:46 in order to be prepared to face those kinds of shocks.
31:50 Because for us with the pandemic of COVID,
31:54 this was the last shock that we are supposed to have.
31:58 And now we have a new shock with the crisis in Ukraine.
32:02 So, we have to be prepared for this.
32:05 And to be prepared for this,
32:06 we have to invest into our infrastructure
32:09 in order to be prepared
32:11 particularly in the fragile countries.
32:13 [Kathleen Hays] Axel, how do you answer that question?
32:15 [Axel Van Trotsenburg] I would say we need political support.
32:17 Therefore, a G7 or G20, or this type of meetings
32:20 are so essential.
32:21 Secondly, we should actually discuss openly
32:24 security arrangements very difficult in exiled zones.
32:27 Third, you need to focus on delivering.
32:32 I think that talking is nice,
32:35 but at the end, we still also shall stay focused.
32:39 Ukraine is going to take a lot of attention.
32:42 That should take a lot of attention.
32:44 Also, the other FCV countries deserve a lot of attention.
32:48 So, we need to do the dual task.
32:51 There can be a hotspot.
32:53 That's where we need now to focus on.
32:55 We cannot forget the other countries.
32:57 Then, particularly in the delivery and the coordination,
33:01 it needs to be on the delivery,
33:02 for example, in the UN family,
33:05 you have different agencies who are good at the delivery.
33:09 I think UNICEF has an excellent record
33:11 WFP they are on and they're moving it
33:14 with those agencies, you can actually move a lot.
33:18 And I think the final thing is we need to stay very focused on this,
33:24 because our estimate shows that extreme poverty
33:28 will be concentrated in the FCV in the next couple of years.
33:32 If we want to stop that trend,
33:36 we have to invest.
33:37 [Kathleen Hays] Svenja.
33:38 [Svenja Schulze] I just kind of underline what Axel was saying.
33:42 Kristalina Georgieva said this morning
33:44 we need to expect the unexpected.
33:47 It means that we have to take care
33:49 that our societies are more resilient
33:51 and for the fragile state,
33:53 is that really a challenge to be more resilient,
33:57 to prevent the next crisis.
34:00 That is where the world needs to help
34:02 and where we need this multilateral approach,
34:05 not every country by its own,
34:07 but more in a multilateral way.
34:09 I think that is what we should stay in the center.
34:12 We need real partnership,
34:14 not only talking about partnership,
34:16 but really doing it in a multilateral way,
34:19 financing the things that are needed
34:22 to prevent the next crisis.
34:25 [Kathleen Hays] Catherine?
34:26 [Catherine Russel] I would agree with that.
34:27 I would say roughly 425 million children
34:31 right now are living in conflict zones.
34:34 That's more than ever before in UNICEF history.
34:37 You have that and you have a crisis with the climate
34:42 and you have a conflict, and you have COVID.
34:44 So these children are living in places
34:47 where the compounding of the efforts,
34:49 or the challenges requires a compounding of the responses.
34:53 We need to be smarter about how we try
34:55 to deliver responses to these people.
34:58 I think it means being smarter
34:59 about how we do education.
35:01 It means building resilience into our sanitation
35:03 and water programs.
35:05 It means really doing our best to deliver
35:07 the best for the people who are most in need,
35:09 because those are the people who never...
35:12 it's always the most fragile situations,
35:15 the poorest children,
35:16 and children who are out of school,
35:18 and they have conflict, and it's just one thing after another.
35:21 I think we have to try to respond to that
35:23 in a multilateral coordinated and multi-sectoral way.
35:26 Otherwise, we are not going to make any progress.
35:28 [Kathleen Hays] I want to thank you all for this,
35:29 because you made us think about
35:32 the real people who are effective,
35:34 but it also makes us think about the real people
35:36 who are involved, trying to do this,
35:38 trying to make this all work.
35:40 I think it really helps us connect with our challenges
35:43 and with the best of hopes and intentions.
35:46 You still can't necessarily deliver.
35:47 I think you really gave us a window on that today,
35:50 and I appreciate it.
35:51 I'm sure everybody watching does as well.
35:52 So, if you've just joined us,
35:54 let me tell you that I'm Kathleen Hays,
35:56 and you're watching the Spring Meetings event
35:59 at the World Bank on Rising Fragility.
36:01 A reminder now you can join the conversation on today's event
36:05 at any time using the hashtag #RisingFragility.
36:08 We're inviting you to take part in a poll.
36:10 We're asking what do you think should be the top priority
36:13 for a country going through conflict and fragility?
36:15 You have six choices.
36:17 A, social protection for the poor.
36:21 How about B, addressing food insecurity,
36:24 it is becoming a bigger problem every day.
36:27 C, inclusion of vulnerable groups like women,
36:30 people with disabilities, internally displaced persons.
36:34 D, survival of local businesses supporting the private sector.
36:40 E, peace talks, conflict resolution.
36:43 And your last option,
36:44 addressing domestic and interpersonal violence.
36:47 I know it's hard to choose, because they're all so important
36:50 but even so, pick one.
36:51 Cast your vote right now at live.worldbank.org,
36:54 and we'll bring you the results at the end of this event.
36:58 Now we're going to hear from an inspiring voice,
37:00 one of strength in the face of adversity.
37:03 Victor Ochen is the founder and executive director
37:05 for the African Youth Initiative Network.
37:08 Victor, who was a 2015 Nobel Peace Prize nominee,
37:12 spent 20 years of his life in a camp
37:14 for internally displaced persons.
37:16 Today, his organization
37:17 has helped tens of thousands impacted by war.
37:20 What is it that kept him going?
37:22 Let's hear from Victor himself.
37:35 [Victor Ochen] Our world is in turmoil,
37:37 with conflicts of war and suffering around us.
37:44 This is the story that I identify with.
37:46 After spending 21 years of my life
37:49 growing up in the conflict and internally displaced persons
37:52 in the northern part of my country, Uganda.
37:57 I quickly learned that my next meal was not guaranteed.
38:01 In fact, I spent over seven years surviving one meal a day.
38:07 Whenever I was sick,
38:09 finding medicine was an oppression in itself.
38:13 The challenges kept on coming,
38:16 and I saw my friends, just like me,
38:21 who had missed out on years of education
38:25 without the right skills to find jobs
38:27 and get back on their feet.
38:30 Thankfully, despite the hardships,
38:33 some of us found hope that filled our resilience.
38:39 For me, it inspired the entrepreneurship spirit.
38:43 Today I am so honored
38:45 to be working with young people from across Africa
38:49 as we empower the victims of war
38:53 and work with these young people as leaders in promoting peace.
38:59 I see young people struggling to put food on their plates,
39:04 farmers suffering from climate change,
39:08 and worst, present COVID-19 pandemic,
39:13 which has been so difficult in many communities.
39:17 To me, [inaudible].
39:21 I applaud the World Bank Group and their partners
39:26 for working in the frontline of conflict affected areas
39:29 to spark the much needed hope.
39:34 Hope can come in so many forms, including solidarity
39:37 from the host government and the local population
39:41 or even the vaccination program that keeps all of us safe.
39:46 Hope is the most powerful glue that sticks humanity together.
39:55 [Kathleen Hays] Many thanks to you, Victor,
39:56 for sharing your compelling story.
39:58 It's very relevant to our next guest,
40:00 who will examine the refugee crisis
40:02 and how to respond effectively.
40:04 Joining me now via video link is Raouf Mazou.
40:08 He is the Assistant High Commissioner for Refugees at UNHCR,
40:12 shaking his head, hello.
40:14 And we have here in Washington, Ion Gumene,
40:17 the State Secretary at the Ministry of Finance
40:20 for the government of Moldova.
40:21 And Alejandra Botero,
40:23 she's the Director General in the Department of Planning
40:25 for the government of Colombia.
40:27 So, I welcome you all here.
40:29 It's a very busy week.
40:30 We're very happy you could take out time for us.
40:34 Ion Gumene, I want to start with you,
40:36 because we have seen now well more than 4 million refugees
40:40 leaving Ukraine, going to their neighboring countries.
40:42 And your country, Moldova,
40:43 has taken more refugees per capita than any other one.
40:47 You have stepped up, you've opened your arms.
40:50 Tell us what it's like dealing this,
40:51 what are you doing, what's working,
40:53 how big of a challenge has this been?
40:55 [Ion Gumene] Thank you, first of all,
40:57 for the opportunity to share our experience.
41:00 Indeed, 10% of those 4 million entered Moldova,
41:06 about 400 thousand.
41:08 Out of these refugees, 100 thousand remained in Moldova,
41:14 which is actually 4% of the population in our country.
41:17 A huge number, as you said.
41:20 50% of those refugees remaining in Moldova are children,
41:25 the rest are women and elderly people.
41:31 The first thing for the government to do was to react quickly.
41:37 Actually, there was no room to strategize, to elaborate policy.
41:46 The priority was to move quickly
41:49 to ensure that those people have shelter.
41:52 Actually, the immediate challenges were to ensure
41:58 that the huge flow of people are safely entering Moldova.
42:02 At the same time, securing the border of Moldova,
42:05 acknowledging the risks and the threats.
42:10 The second challenge was to ensure shelter, food,
42:14 essential for those people, for a huge amount of people.
42:17 The third, to ensure medical care for those people,
42:21 especially taking into consideration the COVID pandemic,
42:26 and that a lot of the people were elder.
42:29 These were immediate challenges.
42:32 For these, what were the solutions?
42:36 The solutions were not there,
42:38 as you can guess, because nobody expected this to happen.
42:43 The solution was that the Parliament
42:47 mandated the government to create an immediate solution.
42:51 The government actually took daily decision
42:55 on how to manage this flow of people,
42:58 how to ensure shelters, how to insure food.
43:01 It created a single center for refugees
43:05 which developed the mechanism, how to allocate money,
43:08 relocate money from other budget programs,
43:11 how to create all kinds of shelter, how to help those people.
43:18 These were, as I said, very quick decision-making.
43:24 At the same time we have the war,
43:27 we don't know when the war will stop.
43:29 So, 100 thousand people will remain
43:32 probably for a longer time in Moldova.
43:34 The challenges for this period
43:37 is to integrate these people in the society.
43:39 to reduce the burden on social system.
43:44 [Kathleen Hays] Raouf, I want to turn to you now
43:49 in the office of the United Nations
43:51 High Commissioner for Refugees.
43:53 You deal with refugee crises all over the world.
43:58 Tell us what you have seen working best
44:01 to help the refugees and then support,
44:04 all the things that have to happen
44:06 once they landed in a new place.
44:10 [Raouf Mazou] Thanks a lot.
44:12 I would like to also thank the Bank
44:14 for having invited us to participate in this event.
44:18 The involvement of the Bank in the past few years
44:23 in the search for solution for refugees
44:27 and other internally displaced persons
44:29 has really been a game changer.
44:31 And I'm also particularly pleased to be on this panel with
44:34 the Director General Botero and State Secretary Gumene
44:37 since I was fortunate to travel to Colombia last November
44:41 and to Moldova earlier this month.
44:44 As you heard from the Secretary of State Gumene,
44:48 both countries are models in the way they are receiving
44:53 and including people forced to flee their home.
44:58 To respond to your question, there are many lessons
45:01 that we are learning from, unfortunately, the growing of forced displacement crisis
45:06 that we are seeing around the world.
45:08 Earlier, we made reference to Venezuela, Afghanistan, to Myanmar,
45:13 to Yemen, the Sahel, Ethiopia, just to name a few.
45:16 And many of these situations are protracted.
45:19 I would say that the key lesson is that
45:22 purely humanitarian responses are insufficient and often inadequate.
45:29 What we need is the involvement
45:31 of the development sector from the outside of the crisis
45:37 to ensure a long-term perspective.
45:40 The inclusion of refugees in national services,
45:43 such as health, education, and the ability to be economic actors
45:48 are the best and most effective paths towards [inaudible].
45:55 This is what I've seen in Colombia,
45:58 where I am sure we will hear later on,
46:02 the government has regularized 1.7 million nationals,
46:07 allowing them to work, allowing them to be a part of,
46:10 to have access to social services.
46:13 And this is also what we're seeing happening now in Moldova.
46:20 [Kathleen Hays] Alejandra, let's turn to you now
46:22 because Colombia has become for several years now
46:28 a critical refuge for Venezuelans.
46:30 Venezuelan migrants who are leaving
46:32 because of insecurity, instability, violence.
46:35 How did this evolve? How did you do what you had to do?
46:39 And could you have any suggestions, any share of your experience
46:43 for what other countries can do in this position?
46:45 [Alejandra Botero] Thank you for your question
46:47 and thank you to the World Bank for this invitation
46:49 and for being able to share this space with such interesting colleagues.
46:55 Effectively, this has been, as the State Secretary was saying,
46:59 we have about 4% of the population, right now,
47:02 of Colombia is comprised of Venezuelan migrants.
47:05 Six million Venezuelans have left Venezuela.
47:08 Of them, five are staying in Latin America.
47:10 And it is estimated that around two million of them are in Colombia.
47:14 We're a country of 50 million people, so about 4%.
47:16 [RESPONDING TO THE REFUGEE CRISIS] Of these 2 million people,
47:19 half of them are undocumented.
47:21 So, they come, they cross the border without any documents,
47:23 without anything.
47:24 97% of them are under 55,
47:27 40% are between 25 and 50, so, working age.
47:34 and rest are young, youth.
47:36 You have to have a very focused mechanism
47:38 on families who are coming.
47:40 Mostly looking for economic opportunities.
47:42 And they're coming.
47:43 People are coming to work and the children.
47:45 What I think is the key issue, I think what has been recognized
47:48 internationally is a temporary protection statute
47:51 that we emitted last year.
47:53 It's a temporary protection statute for 10 years.
47:55 Very few countries in the world
47:56 have done a 10 year working permit.
47:59 It gives every single right except voting rights.
48:02 Social rights, civil rights, economic rights.
48:04 It's like being a Colombian citizen without the voting,
48:07 but it has every single other opportunity.
48:09 It's very integral
48:11 and it's very long-term in its approach
48:13 because it's really going to allow these families
48:15 to set up a life in Colombia.
48:18 Now, this can't be done if we don't think about
48:20 an articulation of all the other sectors in addition to migration,
48:24 both on a national level or on a territorial level.
48:27 If we're going to promise to give them all the services,
48:30 so that they can be a part of the social system
48:32 that they can be part of the health system,
48:34 that they can go to the schools, everything,
48:36 you have to have a plan to integrate the migrants at all these sectors
48:39 and that's why setting up a center of government approach,
48:43 it's an office in the presidency
48:45 that makes sure that all the sectors are doing the plan at the same time.
48:49 This has been very short and very recent.
48:52 To give you an example, we have to make sure
48:54 that the banks accept the temporary credit
48:57 to be able to open an account.
48:58 You have to make sure that they are in the health service,
49:01 so that they can access the health program and so on,
49:03 That's why you need to have a national level approach
49:07 that has to come hand in hand
49:08 with the work with the local governments.
49:10 That would be the other recommendation.
49:12 I think that would be in summary what we need to do,
49:14 like a big plan, a very inclusive fraternal plan,
49:17 but that has the whole government working together,
49:19 both on a national level and on a territory level.
49:22 [Kathleen Hays] This is a great idea turned into action
49:24 All the nuts and bolts you need to get it done.
49:26 Very impressive, very exciting.
49:28 [Alejandra Botero] Thank you.
49:28 [Kathleen Hays] Back to you, Secretary Gumene.
49:30 Obviously, the international community is helping Moldova
49:32 take in all these refugees.
49:34 I know you're very grateful.
49:36 I still want to know what more could they do?
49:38 What could be done better?
49:39 I'm seeing so clearly in this event today
49:43 there are lots of great ideas,
49:45 but one of the biggest challenges
49:46 is making the idea the intention,
49:48 even the money flow through to what it needs to do.
49:52 [Ion Gumene] Thank you.
49:53 First of all, for this opportunity and for your support,
49:57 for the support of the donor community.
50:00 I would like to say
50:03 that the economy, the budget was hit
50:07 by the energy crisis last year,
50:10 the prices on energy increased by 360%.
50:15 It's a lot, so the pressure on the budget was there.
50:20 Then, the refugee crisis came.
50:23 The government did it quickly.
50:25 I didn't expect some additional support for donors,
50:29 just relocating the money from one development program
50:33 to the refugees.
50:36 We had a great support so it's an example
50:40 how donors' community communicated, coordinated themselves.
50:45 The World Bank, IMF, and the EU mobilized very quickly
50:49 so decision was taken in several months.
50:53 To put additional budget support
50:57 for the national budget of Moldova
51:02 to close the budget deficit, first of all.
51:06 But we somehow reached the borrowing level.
51:09 That's why we are requesting for new grant support.
51:19 First of all, budget support
51:21 which could be absorbed quickly,
51:24 and there is no room to wait for project development,
51:25 There is no room to wait for project development,
51:28 to wait for years for things to happen.
51:34 Budget support is one channel.
51:37 The second channel is to readjust existing projects.
51:40 We have, as I said, the energy crisis.
51:43 Our primary priority is energy efficiency.
51:47 We are looking forward
51:49 to adapt all existing projects.
51:54 Coming first of all for Moldova is
51:58 energy efficiency and then economic resilience.
52:02 As I said, we have
52:04 an economic crisis due the other crisis,
52:08 then social cohesion.
52:11 And the most important...
52:15 An equally important thing is to reduce
52:17 the threats of hybrid war
52:21 which is there in Moldova.
52:23 If we want financing,
52:25 we risk jeopardizing economic development
52:33 and to split the society because we have this political fragmentation.
52:37 We have pro-Russian political parties and cities as well.
52:46 We are looking forward to modernizing
52:51 all the resources quickly
52:53 and to ensure that there is social cohesion in society.
52:58 We are moving,
53:01 despite the crisis, the refugee crisis, the energy crisis.
53:05 We're looking forward to implement
53:06 the reforms developed at the model of society.
53:10 [Kathleen Hays] Very complicated moving parts.
53:12 In the end, they all work together and it matters to get them working together.
53:16 Let's get back to Raouf now.
53:17 Food insecurity.
53:19 This is a major concern in the world due to the war in Ukraine.
53:24 Clearly. We had it, but this has ramped it up in so much.
53:29 What are you doing to relieve hunger
53:32 and to create ways for refugees at the same time to make a living?
53:36 A two-part question.
53:37 You got to be able to eat and get the food.
53:39 But even then, if you're a refugee, you need to have a livelihood.
53:43 [Raouf Mazou] Yes, indeed.
53:45 It's important to also underline
53:47 that the countries that are most exposed
53:50 to the crisis or to the impact of the crisis in Ukraine
53:54 are more immediately in contact in Central Asia,
53:58 Eastern Europe, Middle East and [inaudible] Africa,
54:03 which together host more than 85% of the war refugees.
54:08 A lot of the refugee population
54:11 also depends directly on humanitarian food assistance.
54:15 Ten million refugees
54:18 are receiving food assistance from WFP
54:22 to meet their food needs.
54:24 It is clear that the increase in food cost
54:28 is going to also have an impact
54:30 on people who really, truly need assistance.
54:36 We will continue to advocate for humanitarian assistance.
54:42 As you say,
54:43 the best way to mitigate the impact in the long run
54:46 is to try and reduce dependence.
54:51 For that we need to allow refugees to contribute
54:58 to the productive capacity to the economy of the country.
55:02 There are many places where refugees
55:05 could actually farm
55:06 and contribute to the economy of the country where they are.
55:12 For that they need support.
55:14 We have several programs with the World Bank,
55:19 The WFP helps to try and make sure that we work with governments
55:24 and make sure that we try to reduce the dependency
55:28 on external food assistance like right now.
55:32 There is potential in that.
55:33 We are even doing very innovative things with the World Bank.
55:38 Insect and hydroponic farming for instance.
55:41 These are things that we are pushing for.
55:45 Last year there was a number of reference made to the private sector.
55:51 We are initiating a very innovative and promising partnership
55:58 with the IFC to help structure
56:01 and better harness the role that the private sector can play
56:06 in the search for solution for displacement.
56:10 This collaboration will also help
56:12 support agricultural production around the world
56:16 in refugee settings, among others.
56:20 [Kathleen Hays] A lot going on.
56:22 Alejandra, want to go to you now because the big question is a very simple one.
56:26 How about helping the most vulnerable, women, women with children, kids?
56:33 [Alejandra Botero] Absolutely. That is the key focus.
56:35 As Raouf was saying,
56:37 the focus on the humanitarian in the long-term
56:39 and in the very closely medium-term is on the social economic inclusion.
56:44 In that sense,
56:45 the numbers of the temporary protection status
56:48 show that almost 100%
56:50 of the Venezuelan population that is now in Colombia
56:53 has applied for the temporary protection status.
56:56 We've given around 700 thousand already physically.
56:59 When they apply, they have to fill up a questionnaire.
57:03 That questionnaire serves to understand who they are
57:06 because half of them were undocumented.
57:08 Who they are, what education level do they have?
57:11 What skills do they have?
57:12 Where do they think we're going?
57:14 That information is fundamental
57:16 to be able to target the most vulnerable population.
57:19 In that sense, for example,
57:21 one of the biggest issues that we've had is the fiscal way that this has meant
57:25 on the health system.
57:27 They're coming in very dire conditions
57:29 directly to the emergency system when they're not regulated.
57:32 In the emergency system versus being part of the health system,
57:36 it costs 2.5 times more to help someone.
57:39 We make sure with the temporary protection status
57:42 that they are in the health system.
57:44 That way it's less expensive for the country to be able to help them.
57:48 It has been one of the key success factors
57:50 regarding the health program.
57:52 We work with the local governments to see which hospitals
57:55 are attending the biggest number of migrants
57:59 and refugees on one sense.
58:01 On the other sense,
58:02 about 55% of the population that is coming in is under 24.
58:06 To have a differentiated approach
58:09 for education and for young children is fundamental.
58:13 For example, as the director of UNICEF was saying,
58:16 the desertion rate is much higher
58:18 in the migrant than in the general population
58:21 because they're traveling itinerantly
58:23 until they know what they're going to stay.
58:25 Having a very focused approach
58:28 on these migrant children in particular
58:30 to make sure that they go to school,
58:32 that their track continues is fundamental.
58:34 Finally, I think one of the great success factors that we've had in Colombia
58:38 is skill set programs and certification programs
58:41 to make sure that very quickly
58:43 they are productive, get a job
58:44 and are able to support their families and so on and so forth.
58:48 In that sense, certification programs of the skill set.
58:51 If you work in construction,
58:53 show that you know these skills in construction.
58:55 or you work in engineering, you know these skills.
58:58 That's important to send a message.
59:00 It's like an invitation letter that I know what I'm doing, and I can get a job,
59:03 which I think has been a very differentiate approach.
59:07 To give you an example,
59:08 we did a pilot program called Certification a few months ago
59:12 with three thousand Colombians and Venezuelans who applied for this program.
59:16 Of the three thousand, one thousand were Venezuelans.
59:19 So almost a third.
59:21 They needed to have that certification to be able to get a job
59:25 with a skill set that has been certified.
59:27 [Kathleen Hays] It's been a great discussion, the three of you,
59:31 bringing together the immediate problems,
59:34 how you're dealing with them right now, the big picture from the UN,
59:39 and then this very specific program. Fascinating.
59:42 I think it's been very illuminating and we appreciate it so much.
59:46 It's clear that all these things
59:48 have long-term benefits for helping displaced and their host communities.
59:54 Now we want to turn to another part of the world.
59:56 In the West Bank amid persistent and unpredictable power cuts.
01:00:00 Think of how that disrupts your daily life.
01:00:02 A local company is investing in solar power to light up classrooms and futures.
01:00:08 Let's hear from a student now.
01:00:12 [BEIT HANINA, WEST BANK]
01:00:16 [Abdullah] My name is Abdulah Yasser Ahmed Suliman.
01:00:18 [Abdullah's education has been disrupted by power blackouts.]
01:00:24 [Leaving students without fans, lights and computers.]
01:00:29 In the winter, the power goes out almost every day.
01:00:34 Teachers struggle to give their lessons because we don't have things like projectors.
01:00:41 We can't turn heaters on in our classrooms,
01:00:44 which are cold most of the time.
01:00:48 Now that the solar panels have been installed, things have improved.
01:00:53 There are no more blackouts and classes can continue uninterrupted.
01:00:59 Education will help start businesses and employ people, improving the country.
01:01:07 As long as the sun is there, we will have electricity and things will be better.
01:01:17 [BISHKEK, KYRGYZ REPUBLIC]
01:01:18 [Jyldyz] I'm Jyldyz in BishkeK, Kyrgyz Republic,
01:01:20 and you are watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
01:01:27 [Kathleen Hays] We just saw an impressive example in the West Bank
01:01:31 how innovative private sector investments
01:01:33 can make a big difference in people's everyday lives.
01:01:36 Let's find out more about how the private sector
01:01:39 can play an essential role even in situations
01:01:42 where there is ongoing conflict or a lack of strong institutions.
01:01:46 Makhtar Diop is the Managing Director of the International Finance Corporation,
01:01:51 It is a member of the World Bank Group,
01:01:52 and the largest global development institution
01:01:55 focused on the private sector in emerging markets.
01:01:59 He is going to lead our next discussion.
01:02:01 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:02:03 We have been hearing about the multiple crisis
01:02:05 that countries are facing across the globe.
01:02:08 War, conflicts, climate change, forced displacement,
01:02:12 and the lasting impact of these COVID-19 pandemic.
01:02:15 We have also heard that this compounding crisis
01:02:19 requires collective response and innovative partnership.
01:02:23 I must say that in my entire career,
01:02:26 I've never seen a period like this,
01:02:28 with so many shocks and so many different types of shocks
01:02:32 and the magnitude and the size of these shocks.
01:02:35 We are faced with a multi-faced challenge
01:02:39 in a very unpredictable geopolitical environment.
01:02:43 At the same time, more than ever,
01:02:46 we know the private sector can play a role
01:02:49 in promoting peace and prosperity.
01:02:52 The situation demands, obviously,
01:02:54 bold action to venture the world in the most difficult places.
01:03:00 We need to be persuasive enough
01:03:02 to convince our private sector partner to invest in fragile countries
01:03:06 but we also need to think differently about this context.
01:03:10 I'm delighted to welcome today
01:03:12 Donald Kaberuka and Mary Nazzal, two champions of impact investing.
01:03:18 With them, we will explore how the private sector
01:03:21 can be a force for good
01:03:22 even in the most challenging circumstances.
01:03:26 Donald Kaberuka is very known in the world.
01:03:29 He is a current Chairman and Managing Partner of SouthBridge
01:03:35 and the African Union High Representative
01:03:37 on Financing, Peace Fund and the COVID-19 crisis.
01:03:42 For ten years, he's also been
01:03:45 President of the African Development Bank,
01:03:47 and, before that, Minister for Finance in Rwanda.
01:03:50 A very large experience in development policy.
01:03:55 Mary is the founder of Landmark Hotels & 17 Ventures,
01:04:00 an impact investment and advisory firm
01:04:03 focused on advancing the UN sustainable development goals.
01:04:07 In 2019 she was considered
01:04:11 the best businesswoman in the region,
01:04:13 and she has received many awards for a fantastic job.
01:04:17 Donald, let's start with you.
01:04:19 I know you are passionate about what you have been doing on fragility.
01:04:23 Tell me,
01:04:25 what role can the private sector play in the absence of a functioning government
01:04:29 and in a period of active conflict?
01:04:34 [Donald Kaberuka] Makhtar, thank you very much for inviting me
01:04:38 to be here with my colleague.
01:04:42 Let me first of all say that when I was president of the African Development Bank,
01:04:46 one of the first things I did was to create a department,
01:04:50 a fully-fledged department, to deal with the fragility
01:04:56 in some parts of Africa
01:04:58 because I found that we are not good at doing it.
01:05:01 International organizations who are used to rewarding good performance.
01:05:06 Indeed, the way they allocate resources is known as performance-based allocation,
01:05:11 which means that those countries who are in conflict
01:05:15 are not getting the resources they need actually to get things done.
01:05:19 I keep that Department.
01:05:21 Second, I recognize that, when we say situation fragility,
01:05:28 it basically means that there's no effective state
01:05:31 to deliver services and to perform its legal function.
01:05:37 I'll give you an example.
01:05:38 A place where the state doesn't have enough money to provide for security,
01:05:43 or sometimes they create insecurity themselves.
01:05:46 They don't control all parts of the country.
01:05:49 Often, the fiscal base is so narrow,
01:05:53 that citizens have to self-provide their own infrastructure.
01:05:57 If you consider Somalia, Africa's failed state,
01:06:02 which was a failed state for almost 40 years.
01:06:04 there is a business community
01:06:06 which actually kept the country together in some ways.
01:06:10 If you go to a place like Hargeisa or even Mogadishu,
01:06:14 what was providing hospitals, schools, infrastructure, digital facility
01:06:20 was the business people supported by banks like Dahabshiil,
01:06:27 which had found a way of making transfers from Somalis abroad quite effective.
01:06:34 So, yeah, business can actually
01:06:38 function reasonably well
01:06:41 even when the state isn't able to perform its function.
01:06:45 But this is what it means.
01:06:48 Makhtar, number one, business does not have to mean big business,
01:06:53 because often when it's a private sector, when it's a business,
01:06:57 people immediately think of the large businesses of this world,
01:06:59 Microsoft and the like of that.
01:07:02 No, it means the smallest company delivering digital payments,
01:07:07 the smallest company delivering goods and services
01:07:13 and a lot of jobs in IDP camps.
01:07:18 I recently shared a panel
01:07:20 with the former Prime Minister of the UK, David Cameron,
01:07:23 on internally displaced persons, 70 million of them worldwide.
01:07:27 One of the things we're looking at is
01:07:29 what is a lot of business, what is the opportunity for business?
01:07:34 We found that far too often, actually, these small businesses,
01:07:42 what we call the informal sector, unfortunately,
01:07:45 are actually the ones able to provide the diligence which people need.
01:07:51 The absence of government, curiously enough actually,
01:07:56 often removed the burden,
01:08:01 especially the regulatory burden on some of them.
01:08:04 Now, I'm not saying that that is necessarily a good thing
01:08:08 because you need a business environment which is regulated,
01:08:11 which can set the disputes and a lot of it.
01:08:14 The experiences since Somalia, are basically
01:08:17 people have been set up informal rules and regulations,
01:08:20 informal dispute resolution mechanisms,
01:08:23 and business has been booming,
01:08:25 including some large companies like Coca Cola and so on under franchise.
01:08:31 It is not easy.
01:08:34 It does not mean big business always.
01:08:38 It means that for governments that don't control the whole country
01:08:42 or don't have enough fiscal resources to provide for food and services,
01:08:46 people have to self-provide.
01:08:48 What is the plan for the skills and acumen of these business men and women?
01:08:55 Issue number one for us, Makhtar,
01:08:57 is to identify those kinds of men and women
01:09:01 who have skills and acumen to operate in difficult environments
01:09:04 where governments are failing or have failed.
01:09:07 Far too often we focus on only the large companies.
01:09:11 The second thing, the World Bank a long time ago
01:09:15 set up something which I find completely exemplary.
01:09:21 It worked with governments of some African countries,
01:09:24 I was in government around that time,
01:09:26 and we agreed to part with a bit of our IDA allocation money
01:09:32 to seed an organization called the ATI, the African Trade Insurance Agency,
01:09:36 which basically picked up the risks in countries
01:09:40 in civil wars or coming out of civil wars
01:09:44 where business, both production and trading, was difficult.
01:09:47 Unfortunately, this example is not good to scale,
01:09:50 but I really hope that we learn from the ATI.
01:09:53 I agreed as Minister finance to part
01:09:56 with part of our IDA allocation to seed the ATI.
01:09:59 I can tell you ATI has been exemplary.
01:10:01 I just wish it had been brought to scale
01:10:04 because it has the capacity to pick up some of those risks
01:10:08 which some business people are not willing to take up.
01:10:11 Over to you, Makhtar.
01:10:13 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you. You brought me to a time
01:10:16 when I visited Somalia
01:10:19 and it was amazing to see how the private sector
01:10:22 was brilliant and was creative.
01:10:24 Mary, you might think that the situation is very different
01:10:27 in the Palestinian territories, but there are a lot of similarities
01:10:31 with what has been said by Donald in some parts of Africa.
01:10:37 If I look at your experience, you've been someone who's extraordinary,
01:10:40 moving from Jordan to bringing your business to Gaza.
01:10:47 Tell me a little bit,
01:10:49 what is the success of your model
01:10:51 and how do you measure success in general?
01:10:57 [Mary Nazzal] Thank you for the question and for having me.
01:11:00 I think the importance of the private sector
01:11:02 in all kinds of states is extremely important.
01:11:08 My work or the model of our work
01:11:11 has always been at the nexus of business, social justice and human rights.
01:11:17 Our family business, which is Landmark,
01:11:20 has operated with the community needs always being at the forefront.
01:11:26 I think with our platforms,
01:11:28 our employee base, our client base, it shows that medium-sized companies
01:11:33 have a huge platform to help push towards change for good.
01:11:40 The model that we have, our core value,
01:11:43 is that you can do well and do good at the same time.
01:11:47 We have adopted several causes, whether they are poverty, displacement,
01:11:54 gender equality, sustainable agriculture as part of our business.
01:11:59 We have also partnered with organizations such as Endeavor
01:12:03 to create an innovation impact hub within our hotel.
01:12:08 This shows, because the private sector is so agile,
01:12:13 it can take on causes beyond their core business.
01:12:17 I think, looking at the multiple crises that we are facing as humanity,
01:12:22 even pre-pandemic,
01:12:24 it shows that the public sector, private sector and civil society
01:12:29 need to work together within the spirit of SDG 17,
01:12:33 and 17 is the guiding principle of my company, 17 Ventures.
01:12:38 I think the previous speaker
01:12:40 made an excellent point regarding the size of the company that can make an impact.
01:12:45 As you brought that point up, I'd like to state that I am speaking
01:12:50 to you today from a very small but aspiring company called Kama.
01:12:56 This is a social enterprise that is empowering women all over Jordan
01:13:01 to create artisan products for exports.
01:13:04 It's an example of how a small company
01:13:07 can create jobs for women who need it the most.
01:13:10 There is another company that I'd like to highlight
01:13:13 that I've been supporting for the past 10 years:
01:13:16 called SEP Jordan.
01:13:18 This is Jordan's first B Corps.
01:13:21 They are creating jobs
01:13:24 in the poorest refugee camp in Jordan, the most marginalized.
01:13:28 You mentioned Gaza in your introduction.
01:13:31 These women come from the Gaza refugee camp,
01:13:34 but it is a social enterprise.
01:13:36 It is a business that has the empowerment of women as their key goal.
01:13:43 The point is that, no matter what your business is,
01:13:47 whether it's making Za'atar, which is a local herb,
01:13:50 or whether it's embroidery on scarves like SEP Jordan,
01:13:54 you can always incorporate
01:13:56 social justice work or human rights work within your business.
01:14:00 I think now we realize that all of us, including the private sector at the helm,
01:14:06 need to be working on these issues with urgency.
01:14:10 [Makhtar Diop] You made a powerful point.
01:14:12 Actually, it was a conversation that I had with the head of UNHCR
01:14:18 in a place that Donald knows very well
01:14:21 in the north of Kenya at the border of Somalia,
01:14:23 where we try to work with UNHCR to develop economic activity within the camp.
01:14:29 It's an old economy is existing in those camps.
01:14:34 Both of you made a very strong point:
01:14:36 let's not look only at large companies, small companies matter,
01:14:41 and they're the ones who are starting and will be creating those markets.
01:14:46 What needs to be done to attract them, to derisk them?
01:14:50 There are companies which don't have a lot of financial resources
01:14:54 which are entering a difficult environment.
01:14:56 What can we do more to support you
01:14:59 and to support from a policy stand what they are doing?
01:15:03 Donald mentioned ATI which was an experience, but what else?
01:15:06 We are talking more and more about blended finance.
01:15:09 What do you think about it? Donald?
01:15:14 [Donald Kaberuka] First of all, what these people need
01:15:17 is what you and I understand.
01:15:20 They need security, security for themselves
01:15:23 and security for their people and their workers.
01:15:28 The first thing I'm talking about
01:15:31 is that often these people are operating in areas of very high insecurity.
01:15:36 There's nothing you or the World Bank can do about it
01:15:41 In Somalia, they have created their own forms of community security.
01:15:47 That is the big problem which I cannot resolve.
01:15:50 The second point I felt I made at the beginning
01:15:54 is that, curiously enough, large companies,
01:15:58 when it comes to the extractive industry,
01:16:03 they find a way around it,
01:16:07 due to the specific reasons of rent available there, especially at that time,
01:16:14 What they need most
01:16:17 is someone to pick up some of the risks that they face.
01:16:22 I said to pick up some of the risk that they face,
01:16:25 though they cannot share all the risk.
01:16:28 The World Bank in the past
01:16:29 has been very instrumental in experimenting
01:16:32 with some of those risk-mitigating instruments
01:16:35 for some of these small businesses.
01:16:40 I'm talking about things like
01:16:42 partial guarantees, first loss, which can be covered.
01:16:46 We need to figure out how they can operate at all levels,
01:16:49 not simply for big businesses.
01:16:51 In particular,
01:16:53 first loss has been very effective.
01:16:57 Partial guarantees is very effective.
01:16:59 The way we have applied so far
01:17:03 begins at companies of similar size to the ones the colleagues mention.
01:17:10 That would be helpful.
01:17:12 The second is what I call "fluid forms of finance"
01:17:16 and which are described this way.
01:17:18 If we could use just a bit of IDA, like they are trying to do now,
01:17:23 to provide some of that first loss, for example,
01:17:28 that would be hugely important for the countries,
01:17:31 maybe more than just passive returns in closed envelopes.
01:17:35 I want you to figure out how this can be done.
01:17:39 The first thing they will need is data, information,
01:17:42 because I told you, in these countries,
01:17:45 maybe security or infrastructure are shut,
01:17:48 but there are business people with amazing skills and knowledge.
01:17:52 They need data and that you can easily provide.
01:17:58 Finally,
01:18:00 I think we have to figure out
01:18:03 how to work with the local financial institutions,
01:18:07 what remains of those institutions.
01:18:10 Look, take a bank like Dahabshiil.
01:18:13 First time, the issue of money laundering
01:18:16 or terrorist financing was becoming a threat
01:18:19 and banks were being sanctioned.
01:18:25 A lot of European banks stop dealing with Dahabshiil.
01:18:29 You know this.
01:18:31 So all these transfers,
01:18:34 Somalis living in Scandinavia or Canada was difficult to transfer to their country.
01:18:38 I wrote a personal letter from European leaders in a number of banks.
01:18:43 I said, this is the wrong thing to do.
01:18:45 Let us identify who is the sender of the money,
01:18:48 who is the receiver of the money.
01:18:50 Let us have that data.
01:18:53 Once we have that,
01:18:54 then criminality in between can be minimized.
01:18:58 Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
01:19:02 Fluid finance,
01:19:04 somebody to take the lost,
01:19:06 a bit of data
01:19:07 and some imagination around traditional products
01:19:10 like partial guarantees and first loss.
01:19:12 My colleague knows more than me on this.
01:19:16 Working from the Jordan.
01:19:18 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you very much, Donald.
01:19:20 Mary, what is your take on this?
01:19:22 Same question.
01:19:23 What will make you invest more and do more of what you're already doing?
01:19:29 [Mary Bazzal] We have worked from 2018
01:19:33 to design the first blended finance investment fund for Jordan,
01:19:38 and we used the first loss facility.
01:19:41 The idea there, of course, was to derisk, real risk or perceived risk.
01:19:46 I don't really know sometimes what it is
01:19:49 but the whole idea behind blending at the fund level
01:19:54 was to try and drive new capital,
01:19:56 private capital, to the region within which we work.
01:20:01 I think it's early to tell from my perspective
01:20:04 whether that level of blending and innovation at the fund level
01:20:09 can actually have the effect of moving the capital
01:20:13 we really need to move.
01:20:15 It's not about having DFIs or donors come in a funds like that.
01:20:21 The whole point of having the first loss, or sub debt
01:20:24 or whatever is guaranteed facility is to drive new capital,
01:20:28 and I think we know that that is what we need to be doing.
01:20:31 I think the other issue generally
01:20:34 is a change of mindset within the investor mindset.
01:20:38 For example, Jordan and Palestine are perfect examples
01:20:43 of where impact capital could be going.
01:20:46 Our fund,
01:20:48 the Jordan Growth and Impact Fund, which also looks at Palestine,
01:20:52 has a clear SDG lens in the sense that
01:20:55 we have an impact management and measurement framework
01:20:59 to forward the SDG agenda.
01:21:02 Also, for those who are interested in gender equality,
01:21:05 we are seeking to invest in companies
01:21:07 that increase female participation in the workforce.
01:21:11 Additionally, we have a refugee lens in the sense that we are looking
01:21:15 to invest in companies that hire refugees or are run by refugees.
01:21:19 We're also looking at companies that are inclusive
01:21:22 when it comes to people with disabilities.
01:21:25 We have to identify and increase the amount of impact capital providers
01:21:31 that are looking beyond the bottom line.
01:21:34 But I think for all investors,
01:21:37 countries need to have an investment climate
01:21:40 where they find consistency, transparency,
01:21:45 especially when it comes to tax regulations.
01:21:49 There needs to be a healthy environment for all investors.
01:21:54 This is something that is exceedingly difficult in Palestine
01:21:58 given the dysfunctional political realities on the ground there.
01:22:01 But even in a country like Jordan,
01:22:04 which is very stable and has a thriving ecosystem,
01:22:08 the investor climate is still something that needs work.
01:22:11 Now Jordan has recently created a Ministry of Investment
01:22:16 that I would be supporting to ensure that all investors feel secure
01:22:21 when deploying their capital in Jordan.
01:22:24 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you very much, Donald and Mary,
01:22:26 for joining us for this discussion.
01:22:29 It was fantastic to hear so many interesting ideas,
01:22:33 but also a lot of experience.
01:22:34 You raise a large number of very important points
01:22:39 which will help us think again at the way we are working in federal state.
01:22:44 But luckily, there is a lot of convergence of views around what you said.
01:22:49 You talked about financial institution.
01:22:51 You talk about size of companies investing in financial countries.
01:22:55 You talked about security.
01:22:57 You talk about violence.
01:22:58 You talk more importantly about blending finance.
01:23:01 They need to bring more resources to help companies with their first losses,
01:23:07 to be able to reduce the cost of capital and to be able to add the social impact
01:23:11 that we all want to have in those countries.
01:23:15 Looking forward, we will be working towards
01:23:18 increasing the size of branded finance, to mobilize more resources
01:23:23 from donor countries, but also in IDA to have
01:23:27 broader and larger PSW, private sector window,
01:23:31 to derisk those investments that you talked about.
01:23:34 By derisking them,
01:23:36 not only will you be able to have a small bit of money prices you mentioned,
01:23:40 but also you would be able to attract more capital.
01:23:43 That's what will be our agenda for the coming years.
01:23:48 We are looking forward to working with you.
01:23:51 Thank you so very much for joining us and providing us so much insight.
01:23:55 Talk to you next time.
01:23:57 Bye.
01:24:01 [Kathleen Hays] I'm joined now by Sri Sridhar,
01:24:03 who's been following the conversation online on social media.
01:24:07 So, Sri, I'm very curious to know what people have been saying
01:24:10 because we've had all these great examples
01:24:12 of what's really going on on the ground,
01:24:15 how so many agencies, different people are trying to help.
01:24:18 So I'm curious what the audience has picked up on.
01:24:20 [Srimathi Sridhar] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:24:21 Great to be here with you today.
01:24:22 So people are joining us from all over the world.
01:24:24 A snapshot, they're here from India, France, Philippines,
01:24:27 [Srimathi Sridhar, Communications Officer, WBG]
01:24:28 Egypt, Kenya, Malaysia,
01:24:30 and of course, here in the United States.
01:24:32 They're using the hashtag for today's event, which is #RisingFragility.
01:24:37 They're joining on our Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and also Instagram channels.
01:24:42 But what are they talking about, Kathleen?
01:24:43 They're talking about the need to invest in communities to address
01:24:47 the causes of fragility and conflict, like poverty, injustice, inequality.
01:24:52 But they're also noting that it's important
01:24:54 to protect the most vulnerable and also support refugees.
01:24:58 Why don't we take a look now at some of the comments
01:25:00 that has been coming in social channels.
01:25:02 We have a comment here on LinkedIn for Priscila and Brazil.
01:25:06 She says that "countries should direct their resources
01:25:09 to help vulnerable people and countries"
01:25:11 and that "in adverse and fragile times, there should be world cooperation and wisdom
01:25:16 to address issues such as climate change and poverty."
01:25:20 [Kathleen Hays] Wisdom is very important.
01:25:21 [Srimathi Sridhar] Very much so.
01:25:22 Our next comment here comes in on Facebook from Paul in Kenya.
01:25:27 He's saying, "some of the conflicts occur in the most remote areas of countries.
01:25:31 To create a long-term solution and ensure sustainable peace,
01:25:35 governments and development partners should open up these areas
01:25:39 through infrastructure development."
01:25:41 So hitting on a key area there.
01:25:44 And to wrap things up, on Instagram, Dpika talks about women and children
01:25:49 and says that support to fragile countries really starts by helping them first.
01:25:54 [Kathleen Hays] We can see so much of that nowadays.
01:25:56 Speaking of women and children, speaking about questions,
01:26:00 what are our poll results?
01:26:03 There's some very tough decisions in there about well, you set it up.
01:26:07 [Srimathi Sridhar] This is a great segue to our poll today.
01:26:09 We asked what should be the top priority for a country
01:26:12 that's going through conflict and fragility?
01:26:15 Six options here.
01:26:16 Is it social protection for the poor,
01:26:19 addressing food insecurity, inclusion of vulnerable groups,
01:26:23 survival of local businesses, peace talks and conflict resolution,
01:26:27 or is it addressing domestic and interpersonal violence?
01:26:30 I mean, these are all really such great options.
01:26:34 It's hard to pick.
01:26:35 [Kathleen Hays] It is.
01:26:35 [Srimathi Sridhar] What are you leaning towards?
01:26:36 [Kathleen Hays] I'm leaning towards
01:26:37 food insecurity or social protection for the poor.
01:26:40 So I think I'm going to go for food insecurity for the poor.
01:26:45 [Srimathi Sridhar] I am going to go for social protection for the poor.
01:26:47 But shall we see how people voted?
01:26:49 [Kathleen Hays] Yes, please.
01:26:50 [Srimathi Sridhar] We had over 200 people take part in this poll.
01:26:53 results coming up here on the right,
01:26:55 23%, believe the top priority is social protection for the poor.
01:26:58 22%, addressing food and security,
01:27:01 11%, inclusion of vulnerable groups,
01:27:04 7%, survival of local businesses.
01:27:07 [Kathleen Hays] Peace talks and conflict resolution.
01:27:09 [Srimathi Sridhar] 28% is peace talks and conflict resolution,
01:27:12 and finally at 9%, addressing domestic and interpersonal violence.
01:27:15 So most people here believe peace talks and conflict resolution is the top priority.
01:27:19 [Kathleen Hays] It's hard not to say that any one of those isn't so vital.
01:27:22 [Srimathi Sridhar] Exactly.
01:27:23 [Kathleen Hays] Sri, thank you so much for joining us.
01:27:25 Great job with the social media and the poll.
01:27:27 We really appreciate it.
01:27:30 [NIAMEY, NIGER] [Mouslim] I'm Mouslim in Niamey, Niger,
01:27:33 and you are watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
01:27:43 [Kathleen Hays] I'm joined here now
01:27:44 in the atrium of the World Bank Group by Soukeyna Kane.
01:27:47 She's the Director of the Fragility, Conflict and Violence Group at the World Bank.
01:27:51 And by Aisha Williams, who is the Director of Blended Finance and Corporate Strategy
01:27:55 at the IFC
01:27:56 They're going to be answering some of the questions
01:27:58 you've been posting in just a moment.
01:28:00 But first, I want to recap the main points we've heard in the past hour,
01:28:03 how we can help the most vulnerable.
01:28:05 We heard that, for example, we live in a world of multidimensional risk.
01:28:10 It's not just war, it's also pandemics, weak institutions,
01:28:13 social tension, food insecurity, inequality, climate change,
01:28:17 they all impact human lives, especially the most vulnerable.
01:28:20 Fragile and conflicted affected economies need investment and a vibrant private sector
01:28:25 to create local jobs, generate economic growth and revenues,
01:28:29 build infrastructure, support their families.
01:28:32 Effective and accountable institutions are crucial
01:28:36 in preventing and responding to conflict.
01:28:38 We heard a lot of people from institutions talking about their efforts today.
01:28:42 Forced displacement is a global crisis, yet if managed with inclusive policies.
01:28:47 We heard a lot about that in Colombia.
01:28:49 Refugees can bring about social and economic prosperity
01:28:53 to their whole communities.
01:28:55 Now got it all set up.
01:28:57 Let's hear from Soukeyna Kane and Aisha William.
01:29:00 Soukeyna, I'm going to start with you.
01:29:02 We have a question from Patricia Coma, and it is this,
01:29:06 how does the World Bank manage or address
01:29:09 social situations or tensions in conflict zones
01:29:12 and in areas or countries that host refugees?
01:29:15 That has got to be so very tough,
01:29:17 particularly trying to get anything done in a conflict zone.
01:29:20 [Soukeyna Kane] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:29:21 First of all, it's critical for the Bank to address the issues in social conflict,
01:29:27 [Soukeyna Kane, Director, Fragility, Conflict and Violence Group, World Bank]
01:29:29 when you have tension by doing a lot of based on our toolkit.
01:29:34 First what we need, Kathy, is to have a good understanding
01:29:38 of what is or what are the sources of the tension,
01:29:43 and what can we do to build resilience in those communities.
01:29:49 The Bank has invested a significant amount of resources
01:29:53 in understanding the drivers of fragility, the root causes of fragile,
01:29:58 and more importantly,
01:29:59 translating those drivers of fragility into development projects.
01:30:07 That's the first thing we do.
01:30:10 The second thing is, Kathleen,
01:30:12 we heard today about the forcibly displaced people,
01:30:17 the number has doubled during the past decade.
01:30:22 We've seen that addressing the large flow of people
01:30:29 from countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Syria,
01:30:37 and now Ukraine, including as well, not to forget about the Sahel
01:30:42 is a key focus today of the Bank's intervention.
01:30:46 So, our focus is on short-term, medium-term and long-term.
01:30:53 What we try to do is really to provide basic access to basic services,
01:30:59 basic infrastructure,
01:31:01 provide as well social protection not only to the refugees,
01:31:06 but to include to the host communities.
01:31:10 By doing that, we need partnership, strong partnerships.
01:31:14 We cannot do it alone.
01:31:16 We developed strategic partnership with humanitarian, including
01:31:21 for the force displacement population work significantly with you and [inaudible].
01:31:27 As a result, we've seen it and we've heard it
01:31:30 from the director of planning early in Colombia
01:31:33 in countries like Colombia or Peru,
01:31:36 through multi-sectoral intervention and partnership,
01:31:39 we were really able to address and support
01:31:44 the forcibly displaced people and the host communities.
01:31:47 [Kathleen Hays] I agree.
01:31:48 It's a tremendous example for others to learn from us.
01:31:52 Aisha, now a question submitted by Ahmed through the website for this event.
01:31:57 It's submitted in Arabic.
01:31:58 Got that global reach.
01:31:59 That's what we wanted.
01:32:01 Financial. Financial, that's what I was stressed.
01:32:03 Financial inclusion is a sensitive issue, requires urgent solutions.
01:32:08 It's so important, I think of inclusion in so many ways.
01:32:11 What do you suggest to encourage to get to financial inclusion?
01:32:17 That's what so many people need.
01:32:18 [Aisha William] First of all, thank you very much
01:32:20 for not asking me the question in Arabic.
01:32:23 That would have been an additional challenge.
01:32:25 Clearly, financial inclusion is critical to development.
01:32:30 We believe in the World Bank that the private sector
01:32:33 has a really important role to play in supporting financial inclusion.
01:32:36 [Aisha William, Director, Blended Finance and Corporate Strategy, IFC]
01:32:38 A few statistics.
01:32:39 Nine out of ten companies firms in emerging markets
01:32:42 are medium, small and micro-sized enterprises.
01:32:46 These firms contribute upwards of 50% to the GDP and 60% to 70% to employment.
01:32:52 So supporting these firms is critical
01:32:55 to supporting development more broadly in these countries.
01:32:59 How do we do that?
01:33:00 Through a number of different ways.
01:33:02 At IFC, we work with SMEs through financial intermediaries.
01:33:08 We provide loans to financial intermediaries
01:33:12 for on lending to SME clients.
01:33:14 For example, in Haiti,
01:33:16 IFC lends to Sogesol, which is one of the largest
01:33:19 micro-finance institutions in the country,
01:33:21 which then supports women entrepreneurs, small farmers, and other such borrowers.
01:33:29 Financial innovation is also a key element here.
01:33:33 Initially, in the past, IFC has supported SMEs through,
01:33:37 as I said, individual loans to banking intermediaries.
01:33:41 To try and broaden our scope, IFC has recently launched
01:33:46 the Small Loan Guarantee Program, whereby we provide guarantees
01:33:50 to banks and to financial intermediaries to increase their loan portfolio to SMEs
01:33:59 by derisking or removing some of the risks through our guaranteed product.
01:34:02 So this has been quite important for us to expand our reach
01:34:06 into those segments of the population that need it most.
01:34:11 Just one last thing, though.
01:34:12 Financial resources are important,
01:34:14 but technical expertise and technical assistance is equally important.
01:34:18 You need to improve the capacity
01:34:19 both of the SMEs and of the financial intermediaries
01:34:23 in order to get the results that we all want.
01:34:27 Through our advisory services, we provide that type of support,
01:34:31 coupled with our financial investments to help support financial inclusion.
01:34:35 [Kathleen Hays] So interesting.
01:34:36 A lot of people in distressed, even poor areas give them some money,
01:34:40 give them some resources, and it's amazing what they can accomplish.
01:34:45 Now, Soukeyna, back to you.
01:34:46 I have a question by a group called Activist Women.
01:34:50 All right, you Activist Women.
01:34:52 Why do women always fall prey to fragility in times of crisis,
01:34:56 despite all the efforts and all the protest movement?
01:35:02 [Soukeyna Kane] Kathleen,
01:35:03 when we assume that woman living in peace and stability
01:35:10 are not vulnerable, what we realize is
01:35:13 in crisis, the vulnerability of women is only a magnifier
01:35:18 of what they live in peace and stability.
01:35:22 That's the first thing that I want to share.
01:35:25 The second is
01:35:27 we think that women are collateral damage of war.
01:35:34 At times, it's unfortunately
01:35:36 a deliberate and despicable tactic to target women.
01:35:43 We think that crises are gender neutral.
01:35:48 They're not.
01:35:49 A crisis like COVID will affect more girls than boys.
01:35:54 If you look at schooling, for instance,
01:35:57 you know that many girls will not go back to school,
01:36:00 even when schools will reopen.
01:36:04 That's why it's critical for our institutions
01:36:09 to be extremely deliberate.
01:36:12 That's what we're doing in our gender work.
01:36:17 We do it through the full spectrum as well of our intervention.
01:36:24 First the analytical work,
01:36:26 we try to better understand what is in a particular country,
01:36:33 the benefit of a more gender-inclusive society.
01:36:38 On the bright side, Kathleen,
01:36:40 we all know that when a society treats its women better,
01:36:46 that society thrives.
01:36:49 It's not only an issue of justice, social justice, it's good economics
01:36:56 to have a more gender equality, more economic opportunities for women.
01:37:03 It's absolutely fundamental in our work,
01:37:06 in particular in fragility, in fragile conflict affected states,
01:37:10 to put women at the center
01:37:15 because for peace and crisis prevention, women usually play a critical role.
01:37:23 [Kathleen Hays] Absolutely.
01:37:24 I hope the activist women enjoyed that answer.
01:37:27 I certainly did. I think you got right to the heart of it.
01:37:30 Aisha Tom, in Nigeria, "there's a serious problem of insecurity in Nigeria
01:37:35 that discourages foreign investors."
01:37:37 This has got to be a problem around the world.
01:37:39 The question is, "what plan do you have to support
01:37:42 the Nigerian government combat this situation?"
01:37:45 [Aisha William] Thanks. Another really excellent question.
01:37:48 Look, insecurity instability is an anathema for an investment.
01:37:54 Investors seek to crave stability in order to be able to deploy their funds.
01:38:00 Trying to address that is a critical challenge
01:38:03 that we face across the World Bank Group,
01:38:05 but particularly for IFC and for MIGA,
01:38:07 which are the elements of the World Bank Group
01:38:09 that focus on supporting private sector investment.
01:38:12 We do this in a number of ways.
01:38:14 First, it's important to recognize that there is a distinction sometimes
01:38:18 between the perception of insecurity and actual insecurity.
01:38:21 It's quite important to figure out, to get to the roots of that issue,
01:38:25 to figure out what is the challenge that we're trying to address.
01:38:28 MIGA, for example, the Multilateral Insurance Guarantee Association
01:38:33 provides insurance against non-commercial risks,
01:38:38 the perception of insecurity as well as actual insecurity,
01:38:43 and it provides financiers with that essentially insurance
01:38:46 against these non-commercial risks.
01:38:49 For example, the risk of expropriation of assets.
01:38:55 IFC addresses the issue of insecurity through a number of ways,
01:38:59 in particular through the use of derisking instruments
01:39:02 that we associate with our investments.
01:39:05 So while IFC can provide a financial investment alone to a company
01:39:10 in an emerging market in a crisis situation, additionally,
01:39:14 we provide blended finance or we add concessional financing
01:39:20 to our commercial financing to try and address
01:39:24 certain specific non-commercial risks
01:39:26 that may be associated with that particular investment.
01:39:31 Again, these are various tools that we use to try and get
01:39:35 to the root of those type of risks, those type of insecurity risks
01:39:40 that can really detract foreign investors
01:39:42 from feeling comfortable investing in the country.
01:39:44 [Kathleen Hays] Certainly, there's a lot of tools
01:39:46 and I'm sure there are many people in Nigeria
01:39:48 who already know about this and are using them.
01:39:51 But if they don't, you've helped spread the word today
01:39:53 and we appreciate it so much.
01:39:55 Soukeyna Kane, Aisha William thank you for taking the time
01:39:59 answering these questions.
01:40:00 Just a great way to top off a wonderful event today.
01:40:05 I want to thank all of our guests for joining us,
01:40:07 sharing in this important discussion.
01:40:10 I want to tell you about the great events still to come,
01:40:12 including just an hour so you can get up, walk around, make your lunch.
01:40:15 [COMING UP] [AVAILABLE FOR REPLAY]
01:40:17 The event on trade and development that's coming up,
01:40:21 Tomorrow, the focus turns to human capital and the importance of investing in people.
01:40:25 I think in a way we were just talking about this in our last discussion.
01:40:29 You can also watch back all the events earlier this week.
01:40:32 Maybe you were at work, you were taking the kids to school.
01:40:34 You can go back, you can see exactly what you want to see,
01:40:37 including discussion between the Bank and IMF leaders
01:40:41 on responding to global shocks.
01:40:43 The session on the potential of the digital revolution
01:40:45 for all you crypto folks out there,
01:40:47 as well as discussion around financing climate action.
01:40:51 That's all at live.worldbank.org and you can still share your comments
01:40:57 on these Spring Meetings using the hashtag #ResilientFuture.
01:41:00 I love that phrase.
01:41:02 So happy to join us today.
01:41:04 I want to thank this wonderful crew here.
01:41:06 They have been fantastic.
01:41:07 I want to thank the World Bank for inviting me to do this.
01:41:10 It's been such a wonderful opportunity
01:41:12 for me as a journalist to learn more meets some wonderful people.
01:41:16 I hope you've enjoyed it.
01:41:18 Thank you so much for watching. Goodbye for now.
01:41:29 [Fragility & Conflict]
01:41:31 [Climate Change]
01:41:34 [Food Insecurity]
01:41:38 [Spring Meetings 2022]
01:41:40 [Thanks for watching]
01:41:41 [Watch replays on live.worldbank.org]

On the Frontlines of Rising Fragility: Collaborating and Innovating for Impact

Follow the event on Twitter #RisingFragility

- Watch in العربية | Français | Español -

The World Bank Group has focused on scaling up its engagement in situations of fragility, conflict, and violence (FCV). The disturbing trend of rising and compounding crises points to an urgent need for the international community to come together and develop new and innovative approaches to support countries facing conflict and fragility.

By 2030, up to two-thirds of the world's extreme poor could live in FCV settings, so without addressing the challenges in these economies, we will not succeed in our mission to eradicate extreme poverty and boost shared prosperity.

This timely event will provide a platform to discuss how to stay engaged during times of crisis and meet the challenges in new and innovative ways, along with our partners.

In the face of #RisingFragility, we must work together with partners to stay engaged in challenging environments. Watch live on April 22 as we discuss. Sign up for event reminders and submit your questions now #ResilientFuture

PAGE SECTIONS

- LIST OF SPEAKERS -

- 25-MIN AUDIO SUMMARY -

- RESOURCE LINKS -

- READ THE LIVE Q&A -

- ABOUT THE SPRING MEETINGS -

00:00 Welcome! WBG Spring Meetings 2022 | Rising Fragility
02:41 Opening remarks by David Malpass, WBG President
09:37 Data in focus: The challenge of poverty in FCV settings
11:13 The case of Yemen: Crises, challenges, and solutions
19:12 Supporting fragile communities: immediate aid and long-term resilience
36:58 Inspiring voices in the face of adversity: African Youth Initiative Network
39:59 Refugee crisis and how to respond effectively
59:54 Solar power to light up classrooms and futures in the West Bank
1:01:37 How the private sector can play an essential role
1:24:02 Social media conversation and poll results
1:27:43 Live Q&A: How we can help the most vulnerable
1:40:01 Closure | Thanks for watching the WBG Spring Meetings 2022

"Working on the frontlines of rising fragility requires dedicated financing, international collaboration and sound analytical work, and private sector involvement. And yet – the success is not guaranteed."

— David Malpass, President, World Bank Group

"Business does not have to mean “big business”… it means from the smallest company delivering digital payments, the smallest company delivering goods and services, and a lot of jobs."

— Donald Kaberuka, Chairman and Managing Partner, SouthBridge

"Our work has always been at the nexus of business, justice, and human rights… our core value is that you can do well and do good at the same time."

— Mary Nazzal-Batayneh, Founder of Landmark Hotels & 17 Ventures

RESOURCES

Stories

Multimedia

Read the transcript

00:01 [Upbeat Music]
00:12 [Spring Meetings 2022]
00:15 [Fragility & Conflict]
00:18 [Climate Change]
00:21 [Food Insecurity]
00:23 [Compounding Risks]
00:25 [Forced Displacement]
00:28 [ON THE FRONTLINES OF RISING FRAGILITY]
00:38 [Kathleen Hays] Welcome to this very special World Bank event,
00:41 On the Front Lines of Rising Fragility.
00:44 I'm Kathleen Hays.
00:45 I'm Bloomberg's Television and Radio Global Economics and Policy Editor,
00:51 and I am going to be your moderator today.
00:54 We're meeting here in Washington, DC,
00:57 Spring Meetings of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.
01:00 Unfortunately, under the show of war.
01:02 [Kathleen Hays, Global Economic and Policy Editor, Bloomberg]
01:03 In the last few months, the threats to stability in Asia, Latin America, Africa,
01:07 and now the war in Ukraine, Europe joins that list.
01:11 It's becoming crystal clear no country will be untouched
01:14 by the ruffle effects of the war in Ukraine.
01:16 What can we do to help?
01:19 Today we're going to hear from experts, changemakers,
01:21 people on the front lines.
01:23 We're going to learn how the international community
01:25 can come together to help the most vulnerable people.
01:29 A reminder, we're streaming this event in English, French, Spanish and Arabic
01:32 [LIVE.WORLDBANK.ORG] at live.worldbank.org.
01:34 We want to reach as many people as possible.
01:36 Let's start with a look at what's coming up over the next hour.
01:42 [COMING UP]
01:47 [RESPONDING TO RISING FRAGILITY]
01:49 [David Malpass, President, World Bank Group]
01:52 [YEMEN: CHALLENGES AND PRIORITIES]
01:53 [Maeen Abdulmalik Saeed, Prime Minister, Yemen]
01:57 [ENGAGING DURING CRISES]
01:59 [Hervé Ndoba, Minister of Finance and Budget, Central African Republic]
02:01 [Svenja Schulze, Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development, Germany]
02:05 [Catherine Russel, Executive Director, UNICEF]
02:07 [Axel Van Trotsenburg, Managing Director of Operations, World Bank]
02:12 [A REFUGEE'S STORY]
02:13 [Victor Ochen, Founder and Executive Director, African Youth Initiative Network]
02:17 [RESPONDING TO THE REFUGEE CRISIS]
02:18 [Ion Gumene, State Secretary, Ministry of Finance] [Moldova]
02:19 [Alejandra Botero, Director General, Department of Planning] [Colombia]
02:21 [Raouf Mazou, Assistant High Commissioner for Operations UNHCR]
02:26 [Kathleen Hays] As I watch those pictures worldwide, I'm getting very excited.
02:29 We're going to have some really interesting conversations ahead.
02:32 Before, however, we're going to dive into our first discussion.
02:35 We're going to hear now
02:36 from David Malpass, President of the World Bank Group.
02:41 [David Malpass] Thank you for joining us today.
02:43 This year's Spring Meetings are taking place at a very difficult time.
02:47 I've been deeply shocked and horrified at the war in Ukraine.
02:52 It has already led 4.6 million Ukrainians to flee their country,
02:57 while an additional seven million are internally displaced.
03:01 The war comes at a time when the economic recovery
03:04 from COVID-19 had already begun to falter.
03:08 The ongoing war will further erode short term economic prospects.
03:13 Countries in Europe and Central Asia will be directly affected
03:17 through refugee inflows, trade and remittances,
03:21 as well as increased uncertainty and risk aversion.
03:25 Globally, countries will suffer from spikes in food and energy prices.
03:35 The poorest and most vulnerable countries will be hit the hardest.
03:39 In response to these challenges, we will be discussing options
03:43 with our board for a 15-month crisis response envelope
03:47 of around $170 billion dollars
03:50 to cover April 2022 through June 2023.
03:55 This extraordinary surge of support is being designed to help
04:00 developing countries address the setbacks caused by overlapping crises,
04:05 impacts of the war, food and fuel price shocks,
04:08 disruptions to trade, supply chains and investment,
04:12 as well as the ongoing threats from pandemic, climate change
04:16 and unsustainable debt.
04:19 The war in Ukraine comes at a time when fragility, violent conflict
04:24 and social unrest have increased dramatically.
04:27 We estimate that 39 of our 189 member countries
04:33 are experiencing open conflict situations or remain worryingly fragile.
04:39 Conflicts are triggering the rapid displacement of millions of people.
04:44 By the end of 2020, the number of people who were forcibly displaced reached
04:49 a record high of 82 million, and it keeps growing.
04:54 This reflects major displacement crises in the Sahel and the Horn of Africa
04:59 and in countries around the globe.
05:02 Afghanistan, Haiti, Myanmar, Syria, Yemen, to name just a few.
05:08 Conflicts are further fostered by the flow of weapons.
05:12 We need to stop the flow of weapons into fragile and conflict affected situations
05:17 and help reduce the stockpiles of firearms and landmines
05:22 that remain from previous outbreaks of violence.
05:25 Working on the front lines of rising fragility requires
05:29 dedicated financing, international collaboration
05:33 and sound analytical work, and private sector involvement.
05:38 And yet the success is not guaranteed.
05:41 First, there's financing.
05:43 Our financial support to fragile and conflict affected countries
05:47 increased four-fold, from 3.9 billion dollars in 2015
05:52 to 15.8 billion dollars in 2020.
05:56 We have also increased our financing
05:59 to tackle forced displacement during IDA18 and IDA19.
06:05 We made a combined total of 3.4 billion dollars of dedicated funding
06:09 available under the window for host communities and refugees,
06:15 and we have a further allocation of 2.4 billion dollars planned under IDA20.
06:21 We have also shown that we can act swiftly.
06:24 IDA participants have just endorsed 1 billion dollars to Ukraine
06:28 and 100 million dollars to Moldova from IDA19.
06:32 The Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund, ARTF, which the Bank administers,
06:38 provided 280 million dollars to UNICEF
06:42 and the World Food Program for humanitarian support.
06:45 Second, international coordination and analytical work are vital.
06:50 We must work in concert with diplomatic security and humanitarian actors
06:56 in increasingly complex and protracted crises.
07:01 Sustainable peace requires engagement on all fronts
07:06 by development partners in line with their comparative advantages.
07:10 The launch of our FCV strategy two years ago underscored
07:14 a change in how we approach these situations
07:18 and provides a strong foundation for our long-term engagement
07:22 before, during, and after situations of conflict and fragility.
07:28 We have strengthened our analytics,
07:30 become more flexible in our operations, and invested heavily in institutions
07:36 and infrastructure in the most fragile environments.
07:41 Finally, it's important to involve the private sector early on.
07:45 Even in the most difficult of situations,
07:48 private sector provides jobs and services, and keeps markets moving.
07:54 In many cases, it's the primary bulwark
07:57 against acute vulnerability and deprivation.
08:01 For example, in Jordan, we have supported private sector jobs
08:04 and financial inclusion of refugees.
08:07 In the Sahel, IFC is investing to increase financial and insurance services
08:12 for small enterprises owned or led by women.
08:17 As development actors,
08:19 we must not wait for the conflict to end before we engage and start rebuilding.
08:25 Today, we will hear from leading world figures
08:28 on key aspects of the rising conflict and fragility
08:33 and what we must do to address these challenges.
08:36 I want to thank you.
08:37 I wish you all a good discussion, and I look forward to hearing your ideas.
08:43 [SUVA, FIJI]
08:44 [Sameer] I'm Sammer in Suva, Fiji,
08:46 and you're watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
08:52 [Kathleen Hays] Let me also say thank you, David,
08:54 for laying out the challenges
08:55 and how the international community can be part of the solutions.
08:59 As for you, you can share your thoughts on those remarks
09:02 and the conversations to come using the hashtag #RisingFragility.
09:06 You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, anyone?
09:10 [#RISINGFRAGILITY] All of them.
09:11 You can also post comments and questions at live.worldbank.org.
09:15 And believe me, we're going to be watching those very closely.
09:18 That's where we have experts standing by
09:20 to answer your questions in English, Spanish, French and Arabic.
09:23 You can see they're hard at work doing their job.
09:27 We're just very excited they're there.
09:28 Again, very excited you're going to be in touch with us.
09:30 By the way, we're going to put some of the most popular questions
09:33 to two Bank experts live at the end of today's event.
09:37 First, though, to really understand
09:39 the scale of the challenge, let's look at some of the facts.
09:41 We talk about looking at the numbers,
09:43 looking at data, and so does the World Bank.
09:46 Let me show you this chart.
09:47 It's where the world's extreme poor live.
09:50 The Orange bar on the left represents
09:53 the number located in fragile and conflict affected situations, FCS.
09:59 Now, take a look at the right hand bar.
10:01 It's much bigger.
10:02 It's the number not living in those challenging settings.
10:05 At least that was the situation in the year 2000.
10:08 Four out of five of the world's extreme poor
10:11 lived in economies not suffering from fragility or conflict.
10:16 Now we'll show you what has happened as the century has progressed.
10:21 Proportion of poor people living in those non fragile countries.
10:26 You can see it falling at quite a fast rate.
10:28 That's because poverty in these economies
10:31 was massively declining, a very good trend.
10:34 Now, today it's estimated that more than half the world's poor,
10:37 however, still reside in economies that are suffering
10:40 from fragility and conflict improvement, but not really perfect yet.
10:44 So now let's take a look at the projections, too.
10:47 By 2030, it's not nearly two thirds of the world's poor will be living
10:51 in these challenging situations.
10:54 This is an important finding as well.
10:57 You can see now, I hope,
11:00 how important it is eliminating extreme poverty.
11:03 It requires an urgent focus on these very fragile contexts,
11:08 they are still so many in the world and in some cases there and getting worse.
11:13 Earlier, I had the great pleasure of speaking to
11:15 His Excellency Maeen Adulmalik Saeed, Prime Minister of Yemen.
11:19 I started by asking the Prime Minister
11:21 about the developmental challenges repeated crises have presented
11:26 and the key steps the government has taken to address them.
11:30 Your Excellency, Yemen has been living through
11:33 a prolonged series of crises, conflict, the pandemic, climate events.
11:39 These all present big developmental challenges.
11:43 What are the key actions the government's been taking to address these challenges?
11:48 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] Thank you, Kathleen.
11:49 Like you mentioned, Yemen is facing a complicated, severe crisis
11:56 and now accumulated during the seven years before humanitarian crisis.
12:02 We have degenerating an economy, UNDB has estimated the Yemeni economy
12:08 has set back two decades and it would go back maybe to four decades
12:12 if it continues to lose 126 billion US dollar in total in GDP during the six years before.
12:20 We have 4 million IDPs, internally displaced people.
12:24 We have 20 million food insecure persons in Yemen.
12:29 So all that accumulated and also the COVID-19 that we faced in 2020.
12:33 The main concern for the government is to preserve the economy.
12:40 We don't want the people to lose the purchasing power.
12:43 We need to control the duration of the currency and surging the inflation.
12:48 This is the main concerns that we have during the last years.
12:53 We took some action reforms in the central bank.
12:57 We control the budget deficit.
12:59 We bring it back to 30% in 2021
13:04 compared to 54% in 2020.
13:10 Revenues were raised from oil sector and non oil sector
13:13 traced 47% during 2021 compared to 2020.
13:18 This is one of the main things that we want to control
13:23 and we inject money to the health sector so we can face COVID-19 pandemic.
13:29 We build around 26 isolation camp around the country, 14 oxygen factories.
13:37 We face a lot of difficulties providing oxygen to the isolation camps.
13:42 We built that in 2020 and 2021,
13:45 enhancing the capacity of the health sector and run vaccination campaigns.
13:52 All that with the support of the international community.
13:56 [Kathleen Hays] Let's talk more about the role the international community has played.
14:01 What steps have been most important?
14:03 Where could this assistance, this cooperation improve?
14:10 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] It's important and one of the key issues is
14:14 to stay engaging, engaging in those crises,
14:19 because sometimes to close doors causes a lot of problems.
14:24 The cost of disengaging is high.
14:29 IDA, for example, is an example of global solidarity.
14:35 The amount that they support countries like Yemen helps in our situation.
14:40 For the international community is important to stay engaging
14:44 and also mitigating risk rather than avoiding risks is important.
14:52 That's why an examples is the World Bank's interventions during the crisis.
14:57 I think they have an example in Yemen and we work together and we enhance that.
15:02 Also presence on the ground.
15:05 If the donors know more about the political and economic atmosphere
15:12 inside the country, they can design good ways
15:17 to implement and help the country.
15:19 Also balancing between emergency response and long-term development.
15:26 It's always emergency response, but we need to balance that.
15:29 We need to capitalize in more sustainable and inclusive growth.
15:34 That's important.
15:36 This is one of the main issues that I can recall.
15:41 [Kathleen Hays] The world is watching the war in Ukraine.
15:43 We know there are several countries around the world that are in crisis.
15:48 What lessons can they learn from Yemen,
15:51 from the steps you have taken, how you've gotten through this?
15:55 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] We are in major problems with food insecurity.
16:00 I mentioned it at the beginning.
16:01 We have 20 million Yemeni insecured or food insecured.
16:05 The war in Ukraine shows how fragile we could end up by the end of this year.
16:12 Not only Yemen, other countries are facing crisis similar to that.
16:17 We have 31% of our wheat come from Ukraine.
16:24 At the beginning this year, when we set up with the traders,
16:27 we sit with them and we try to find different sources for that.
16:32 That's why the wheat prices have raised seven times between 2015 until now.
16:40 In a country like Yemen with the loss of purchasing power,
16:44 that affects a big sector of people.
16:48 That's why we think about all the situation.
16:52 We are facing a devastating situation by the end of this year.
16:59 I think seizing a window of hope is important.
17:04 Now in Yemen, we have the truth.
17:07 In countries facing crises, seizing the opportunities
17:11 for bringing peace is important and giving hope to the people.
17:16 Also there is a different element, like supporting private sector.
17:22 In countries like Yemen,
17:24 if the place is more secure, people can create jobs.
17:28 That's why we always support the private sector.
17:32 They can work and we can rely on the private sector to help us.
17:37 And also aligned with that is investing in human capital.
17:42 Another important issue is also to scaling support to countries like Yemen.
17:48 Unprecedented times need unprecedented actions.
17:54 It's not the response for the crisis, not the crisis itself.
17:58 The response of the crisis determine
18:01 how we can build back better after the crisis.
18:05 So the response should be unique in response to the crisis itself.
18:14 It's one of the lessons learned from the Ukraine-Russian war
18:21 that affects the whole world, not only Yemen.
18:24 We are talking about fragility and fragile countries facing crisis.
18:31 As we talked in the beginning, we have multiple layers of crisis
18:36 aligned with COVID-19 and natural disasters.
18:39 And we face that as a government in different governments
18:42 in the many different crisis we've had.
18:50 [Kathleen Hays] You Excellency, Thank you very much
18:53 for an illuminating and inspiring conversation.
18:58 [Maeen Adulmalik Saeed] Thank you.
19:01 [BUJUMBURA, BURUNDI]
19:01 [Sandrine] I'm Sandrine in Bujumura, Burundi
19:05 and you're watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
19:12 [Kathleen Hays] Now we're going to look at
19:13 how to actually support fragile communities,
19:16 how to provide immediate aid during conflict
19:18 and not lose focus on long-term resilience.
19:21 Our guests today are all leaders in the Humanitarian-Development-Peace Nexus.
19:27 Hervé Ndoba is Minister of Finance for the Central African Republic,
19:31 Svenja Schulze is Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development
19:35 in Germany.
19:37 Axel Van Trotsenburg is the Managing Director of Operations here at the World Bank.
19:41 and Catherine Russell is Executive Director for UNICEF.
19:45 I welcome you all.
19:46 It's a busy week and I'm glad you could take time ever.
19:48 Hervé, let me start with you because Central African Republic
19:51 has been going through this transition from a long period.
19:55 Rocky period of instability, lasting recovery.
19:58 That's quite an accomplishment.
20:00 How did that occur? How did you make that happen?
20:04 How has the World Bank supported your efforts?
20:07 [Hervé Ndoba] Thank you very much for this question and for the opportunity
20:09 to give in and talk about Central African Republic.
20:12 My country, which is known or the last three decades,
20:15 to live in a period of social crisis.
20:21 We actually have been able to establish security into the country.
20:27 We are working very hard to try to sell the different ways in order to
20:34 change the cycle of fragility, conflicts and violence in the country
20:40 just by having some measures that we have started to set into the country.
20:49 Some of those measures are political measures
20:54 and some are financial measures.
20:56 For the political measures, for example,
20:59 we've started to establish some tools into the country,
21:04 for example, the DDRR, which is demobilization, disarmaments,
21:10 reintegration, and repatriation
21:13 of people who used to be in the war
21:20 so that we can integrate them back into the society.
21:27 We also have setting up another tool which is APPR,
21:32 which is political agreements with all the stakeholders of those conflicts.
21:40 [LIVE: ENGAGING DURING CRISES] Because just for you to take into account,
21:44 at the high take of the crisis,
21:48 we count 17 army groups in the country.
21:54 But we have been able to manage all those army group
21:57 with these different tools.
22:00 We are actually moving forward to the Republican dialogue,
22:05 which is very important in order to understand what is going on in this country
22:09 and why we are facing those cycles of war for those three decades.
22:17 Having said that, we are also doing important things
22:24 on the financial parts because of course, when we're facing fragility,
22:29 the fiscal space is very reduced and we have to find solutions
22:35 in order to increase this fiscal space so that the government can ensure
22:41 the expenses which it has to face.
22:49 Then, we have started a cleanup of the public financing.
22:55 This is very important and I'm very pleased to have
22:58 the World Bank on the call because we have two projects
23:01 which are very important for us, Digitalization, for example,
23:05 and we are working on the subject in order to move forward.
23:09 [Kathleen Hays] It's interesting though, how you show us
23:11 there are so many different elements that they all come together
23:14 to help create this moving forward and stability.
23:16 Svenja, for Germany, exciting year in many ways,
23:20 but you're hosting the G7 presidency this year.
23:24 Germany the largest, richest country in Europe.
23:27 You play a very important role in so many of these the questions now,
23:30 fragility hotspots, you've already stepped up
23:33 and done a lot for Ukraine and surrounding countries.
23:35 But broadly speaking, who's on your radar screen
23:38 and how do you target responses to countries and situations
23:41 that are so very different?
23:43 [Svenja Schulze] It is very important to see we have overlapping crises.
23:47 We have the crisis because of the pandemic.
23:50 We still have not won the fight against the pandemic.
23:53 We see the climate crisis.
23:54 We see the loss of biodiversity.
23:57 Now, the war against Ukraine and all the consequences we see in the world.
24:01 So having that all together that needs really coordinated answers
24:06 and someone need to coordinate these answers.
24:09 We see that G7 has to take a leading role
24:12 and that the World Bank needs to have a leading role.
24:16 Just an example for food security.
24:20 We see a lot of action now, but the coordination and leadership
24:25 in this action to say, okay, we share our analysis,
24:29 we just discuss who is responsible for what
24:33 this coordination, that is what we like to bring forward.
24:37 We are very happy the World Bank is able to coordinate that,
24:42 and we can help to deal with that.
24:45 I think that is really important.
24:47 We need to change the agricultural system.
24:50 We need to adapt on what climate change is bringing with us.
24:54 We need short-term action and long-term engagement.
24:58 To bring that together, that is the challenge we have.
25:02 [Kathleen Hays] I think a lot of people in our government always understand
25:03 the importance of all that coordination, communication, et cetera.
25:07 So, Catherine, hundreds of millions of children
25:10 have had their education not just disrupted,
25:13 but maybe permanently damaged, thrown off track around the world.
25:18 It seems also in some of the poorest countries,
25:21 they're going to have the hardest time catching up
25:22 because they don't have the richness of resources.
25:25 How is UNICEF..?
25:26 Are you going to use all the partnerships you have
25:29 with so many countries, so many other agencies to work on this?
25:32 [Catherine Russel] I think, first of all, you're 100% right, that even before COVID,
25:37 we had a global humanitarian and learning crisis in this world, right.
25:43 We had 260 million kids who weren't in school.
25:46 This is pre COVID. Right.
25:48 We had 50% of 10 year olds in low and middle-income countries
25:53 couldn't understand a simple sentence,
25:55 read and understand the symbols.
25:56 So now, we have COVID, on top of that, we've had school closures.
25:59 We have 23 countries still where schools are not fully back on track.
26:04 These children have been out of classes for so long,
26:07 they've lost so much learning.
26:09 Our estimate now is that it's close to 70% of children
26:12 in some of these countries at age 10 don't have very basic skills.
26:17 So you're right, UNICEF is very focused on this,
26:20 very committed to this, but we cannot do this alone.
26:22 We need partnerships.
26:24 One really good example of that is the work we've been doing in Yemen,
26:27 where we work with several people,
26:29 Save the Children is doing teacher training,
26:31 the World Bank has thankfully come and done financing for us.
26:36 UNICEF is doing a lot of work building and refurbishing schools
26:41 and also providing a lot of the basics for children to learn.
26:47 Then, the World Food Program is they are providing food.
26:51 So everybody comes together.
26:53 To spend this point,
26:55 you have to have the coordination efforts,
26:57 and the bank is critical with that.
26:59 I mean, we work very closely with the bank in many places.
27:02 We know how to do that, but it is not easy
27:04 to coordinate in these places.
27:06 But we now have 1000 schools that are open
27:08 and operating in Yemen,
27:09 where it's a dreadful situation overall.
27:12 And so many children are still out of school
27:14 and hungry and lots of problems.
27:15 But you can show that we can make progress
27:18 even in the most difficult circumstances.
27:19 When you say that 1000 schools open
27:21 I just almost kept goosebumps.
27:22 It's really very exciting.
27:23 Axel, I want to ask you about the Fragility,
27:28 Conflict and Violence Strategy of the World Bank
27:30 officially in place with real focus in the last couple years.
27:33 Obviously, it's something the World Bank
27:35 has been involved in for decades.
27:37 In this, what we have been calling
27:40 the FCV focus and strategy.
27:43 What have you learned?
27:46 What would you say that the main focus is now?
27:49 [Axel Van Trotsenburg] Well, you just heard it.
27:51 I always concentrate this where is the extreme poverty.
27:54 And increasingly in the FCV,
27:56 the extreme poverty is concentrated.
27:59 And what we have had for decades,
28:01 far too long was a paradigm of pillars.
28:04 Here you have humanitarian, here you have development
28:07 Here you have security.
28:08 So now we talk about the Nexus,
28:10 and here is basically what it is.
28:13 Nobody can do it alone.
28:14 You have to work together and see how we can complement
28:19 each other's strengths.
28:21 And this is badly needed, not only for actually having
28:25 results on the ground,
28:27 but actually the situations are difficult.
28:29 [LIVE: BUILDING LONG-TERM RESILIENCE]
28:30 They can take in Afghanistan,
28:31 when you cannot really deal with the Taliban,
28:35 but, at the same time, people are suffering.
28:38 How can you deal with that?
28:39 The UN is a great organ, UNICEF, WFP,
28:46 but there are many other interventions that you have to do.
28:50 That means that you have to coordinate that
28:52 smartly with bilateral, with multilateral.
28:55 I think that is where we need...
28:59 what I'm learning is actually most what I've learned now
29:02 with Afghanistan since August last year
29:06 is we have an Afghanistan reconstruction trust fund
29:09 where donors are coordinated
29:11 and where we are actually discussing the hard questions,
29:15 not to find an excuse not to do it, but to do it.
29:19 I think we have been able to make progress,
29:21 because you need also to find consensus on this.
29:25 Ultimately, what is from an operational perspective,
29:28 about a third of the IDA resources
29:32 are going to FCV countries.
29:35 And it's also the right thing to do.
29:37 But we have also to realize
29:39 that the last year has been a total disaster.
29:41 What FCV countries started was coup d'états
29:45 in Myanmar, you saw Afghanistan, Yemen,
29:49 Horn of Africa, Sahel, and not to forget Haiti.
29:53 So, we have a lot of countries where we need to have this.
29:56 The most important thing is we need to stay engaged.
30:00 We cannot walk away just because it is difficult.
30:03 [Kathleen Hays] Well, let's move to the question for everybody
30:08 a little bit more of a lightning round here,
30:11 because now you have a better sense of all the shocks,
30:14 all you're dealing with.
30:15 I think you put that more specific steps
30:18 in individuals, real people into this.
30:20 The last couple of years have been especially bad.
30:23 Who knew that the pandemic would also have these
30:25 terrible climate events, big fire all over the world, etc.
30:30 And of course, now war in more places, in Ukraine.
30:33 So, with that in mind, looking ahead,
30:36 what should be on our radar screens?
30:38 What's the first one or two things that
30:40 Hervé, you are going to be looking at
30:42 that you want the people who are listening to think about?
30:45 [Hervé Ndoba] I think for me,
30:47 one thing which is very important is the coordination.
30:51 We heard about it already.
30:53 Ion has talked about our coordination,
30:55 the World Bank also.
30:56 It is very important because in our country, for example,
31:00 we realize that after having made some work
31:05 together with all the partners,
31:08 then we realized that sometimes
31:09 there's a lot of money which are put on
31:12 only one topic or two topics and the others are not covered.
31:17 We have to prioritize what we want to do
31:23 with this money which comes from the partners.
31:28 This is the first point.
31:30 The second point is just that
31:31 we learned from this global situation in the world
31:35 that the countries which are facing fragility
31:39 are in a situation where they should invest
31:44 in their infrastructure
31:46 in order to be prepared to face those kinds of shocks.
31:50 Because for us with the pandemic of COVID,
31:54 this was the last shock that we are supposed to have.
31:58 And now we have a new shock with the crisis in Ukraine.
32:02 So, we have to be prepared for this.
32:05 And to be prepared for this,
32:06 we have to invest into our infrastructure
32:09 in order to be prepared
32:11 particularly in the fragile countries.
32:13 [Kathleen Hays] Axel, how do you answer that question?
32:15 [Axel Van Trotsenburg] I would say we need political support.
32:17 Therefore, a G7 or G20, or this type of meetings
32:20 are so essential.
32:21 Secondly, we should actually discuss openly
32:24 security arrangements very difficult in exiled zones.
32:27 Third, you need to focus on delivering.
32:32 I think that talking is nice,
32:35 but at the end, we still also shall stay focused.
32:39 Ukraine is going to take a lot of attention.
32:42 That should take a lot of attention.
32:44 Also, the other FCV countries deserve a lot of attention.
32:48 So, we need to do the dual task.
32:51 There can be a hotspot.
32:53 That's where we need now to focus on.
32:55 We cannot forget the other countries.
32:57 Then, particularly in the delivery and the coordination,
33:01 it needs to be on the delivery,
33:02 for example, in the UN family,
33:05 you have different agencies who are good at the delivery.
33:09 I think UNICEF has an excellent record
33:11 WFP they are on and they're moving it
33:14 with those agencies, you can actually move a lot.
33:18 And I think the final thing is we need to stay very focused on this,
33:24 because our estimate shows that extreme poverty
33:28 will be concentrated in the FCV in the next couple of years.
33:32 If we want to stop that trend,
33:36 we have to invest.
33:37 [Kathleen Hays] Svenja.
33:38 [Svenja Schulze] I just kind of underline what Axel was saying.
33:42 Kristalina Georgieva said this morning
33:44 we need to expect the unexpected.
33:47 It means that we have to take care
33:49 that our societies are more resilient
33:51 and for the fragile state,
33:53 is that really a challenge to be more resilient,
33:57 to prevent the next crisis.
34:00 That is where the world needs to help
34:02 and where we need this multilateral approach,
34:05 not every country by its own,
34:07 but more in a multilateral way.
34:09 I think that is what we should stay in the center.
34:12 We need real partnership,
34:14 not only talking about partnership,
34:16 but really doing it in a multilateral way,
34:19 financing the things that are needed
34:22 to prevent the next crisis.
34:25 [Kathleen Hays] Catherine?
34:26 [Catherine Russel] I would agree with that.
34:27 I would say roughly 425 million children
34:31 right now are living in conflict zones.
34:34 That's more than ever before in UNICEF history.
34:37 You have that and you have a crisis with the climate
34:42 and you have a conflict, and you have COVID.
34:44 So these children are living in places
34:47 where the compounding of the efforts,
34:49 or the challenges requires a compounding of the responses.
34:53 We need to be smarter about how we try
34:55 to deliver responses to these people.
34:58 I think it means being smarter
34:59 about how we do education.
35:01 It means building resilience into our sanitation
35:03 and water programs.
35:05 It means really doing our best to deliver
35:07 the best for the people who are most in need,
35:09 because those are the people who never...
35:12 it's always the most fragile situations,
35:15 the poorest children,
35:16 and children who are out of school,
35:18 and they have conflict, and it's just one thing after another.
35:21 I think we have to try to respond to that
35:23 in a multilateral coordinated and multi-sectoral way.
35:26 Otherwise, we are not going to make any progress.
35:28 [Kathleen Hays] I want to thank you all for this,
35:29 because you made us think about
35:32 the real people who are effective,
35:34 but it also makes us think about the real people
35:36 who are involved, trying to do this,
35:38 trying to make this all work.
35:40 I think it really helps us connect with our challenges
35:43 and with the best of hopes and intentions.
35:46 You still can't necessarily deliver.
35:47 I think you really gave us a window on that today,
35:50 and I appreciate it.
35:51 I'm sure everybody watching does as well.
35:52 So, if you've just joined us,
35:54 let me tell you that I'm Kathleen Hays,
35:56 and you're watching the Spring Meetings event
35:59 at the World Bank on Rising Fragility.
36:01 A reminder now you can join the conversation on today's event
36:05 at any time using the hashtag #RisingFragility.
36:08 We're inviting you to take part in a poll.
36:10 We're asking what do you think should be the top priority
36:13 for a country going through conflict and fragility?
36:15 You have six choices.
36:17 A, social protection for the poor.
36:21 How about B, addressing food insecurity,
36:24 it is becoming a bigger problem every day.
36:27 C, inclusion of vulnerable groups like women,
36:30 people with disabilities, internally displaced persons.
36:34 D, survival of local businesses supporting the private sector.
36:40 E, peace talks, conflict resolution.
36:43 And your last option,
36:44 addressing domestic and interpersonal violence.
36:47 I know it's hard to choose, because they're all so important
36:50 but even so, pick one.
36:51 Cast your vote right now at live.worldbank.org,
36:54 and we'll bring you the results at the end of this event.
36:58 Now we're going to hear from an inspiring voice,
37:00 one of strength in the face of adversity.
37:03 Victor Ochen is the founder and executive director
37:05 for the African Youth Initiative Network.
37:08 Victor, who was a 2015 Nobel Peace Prize nominee,
37:12 spent 20 years of his life in a camp
37:14 for internally displaced persons.
37:16 Today, his organization
37:17 has helped tens of thousands impacted by war.
37:20 What is it that kept him going?
37:22 Let's hear from Victor himself.
37:35 [Victor Ochen] Our world is in turmoil,
37:37 with conflicts of war and suffering around us.
37:44 This is the story that I identify with.
37:46 After spending 21 years of my life
37:49 growing up in the conflict and internally displaced persons
37:52 in the northern part of my country, Uganda.
37:57 I quickly learned that my next meal was not guaranteed.
38:01 In fact, I spent over seven years surviving one meal a day.
38:07 Whenever I was sick,
38:09 finding medicine was an oppression in itself.
38:13 The challenges kept on coming,
38:16 and I saw my friends, just like me,
38:21 who had missed out on years of education
38:25 without the right skills to find jobs
38:27 and get back on their feet.
38:30 Thankfully, despite the hardships,
38:33 some of us found hope that filled our resilience.
38:39 For me, it inspired the entrepreneurship spirit.
38:43 Today I am so honored
38:45 to be working with young people from across Africa
38:49 as we empower the victims of war
38:53 and work with these young people as leaders in promoting peace.
38:59 I see young people struggling to put food on their plates,
39:04 farmers suffering from climate change,
39:08 and worst, present COVID-19 pandemic,
39:13 which has been so difficult in many communities.
39:17 To me, [inaudible].
39:21 I applaud the World Bank Group and their partners
39:26 for working in the frontline of conflict affected areas
39:29 to spark the much needed hope.
39:34 Hope can come in so many forms, including solidarity
39:37 from the host government and the local population
39:41 or even the vaccination program that keeps all of us safe.
39:46 Hope is the most powerful glue that sticks humanity together.
39:55 [Kathleen Hays] Many thanks to you, Victor,
39:56 for sharing your compelling story.
39:58 It's very relevant to our next guest,
40:00 who will examine the refugee crisis
40:02 and how to respond effectively.
40:04 Joining me now via video link is Raouf Mazou.
40:08 He is the Assistant High Commissioner for Refugees at UNHCR,
40:12 shaking his head, hello.
40:14 And we have here in Washington, Ion Gumene,
40:17 the State Secretary at the Ministry of Finance
40:20 for the government of Moldova.
40:21 And Alejandra Botero,
40:23 she's the Director General in the Department of Planning
40:25 for the government of Colombia.
40:27 So, I welcome you all here.
40:29 It's a very busy week.
40:30 We're very happy you could take out time for us.
40:34 Ion Gumene, I want to start with you,
40:36 because we have seen now well more than 4 million refugees
40:40 leaving Ukraine, going to their neighboring countries.
40:42 And your country, Moldova,
40:43 has taken more refugees per capita than any other one.
40:47 You have stepped up, you've opened your arms.
40:50 Tell us what it's like dealing this,
40:51 what are you doing, what's working,
40:53 how big of a challenge has this been?
40:55 [Ion Gumene] Thank you, first of all,
40:57 for the opportunity to share our experience.
41:00 Indeed, 10% of those 4 million entered Moldova,
41:06 about 400 thousand.
41:08 Out of these refugees, 100 thousand remained in Moldova,
41:14 which is actually 4% of the population in our country.
41:17 A huge number, as you said.
41:20 50% of those refugees remaining in Moldova are children,
41:25 the rest are women and elderly people.
41:31 The first thing for the government to do was to react quickly.
41:37 Actually, there was no room to strategize, to elaborate policy.
41:46 The priority was to move quickly
41:49 to ensure that those people have shelter.
41:52 Actually, the immediate challenges were to ensure
41:58 that the huge flow of people are safely entering Moldova.
42:02 At the same time, securing the border of Moldova,
42:05 acknowledging the risks and the threats.
42:10 The second challenge was to ensure shelter, food,
42:14 essential for those people, for a huge amount of people.
42:17 The third, to ensure medical care for those people,
42:21 especially taking into consideration the COVID pandemic,
42:26 and that a lot of the people were elder.
42:29 These were immediate challenges.
42:32 For these, what were the solutions?
42:36 The solutions were not there,
42:38 as you can guess, because nobody expected this to happen.
42:43 The solution was that the Parliament
42:47 mandated the government to create an immediate solution.
42:51 The government actually took daily decision
42:55 on how to manage this flow of people,
42:58 how to ensure shelters, how to insure food.
43:01 It created a single center for refugees
43:05 which developed the mechanism, how to allocate money,
43:08 relocate money from other budget programs,
43:11 how to create all kinds of shelter, how to help those people.
43:18 These were, as I said, very quick decision-making.
43:24 At the same time we have the war,
43:27 we don't know when the war will stop.
43:29 So, 100 thousand people will remain
43:32 probably for a longer time in Moldova.
43:34 The challenges for this period
43:37 is to integrate these people in the society.
43:39 to reduce the burden on social system.
43:44 [Kathleen Hays] Raouf, I want to turn to you now
43:49 in the office of the United Nations
43:51 High Commissioner for Refugees.
43:53 You deal with refugee crises all over the world.
43:58 Tell us what you have seen working best
44:01 to help the refugees and then support,
44:04 all the things that have to happen
44:06 once they landed in a new place.
44:10 [Raouf Mazou] Thanks a lot.
44:12 I would like to also thank the Bank
44:14 for having invited us to participate in this event.
44:18 The involvement of the Bank in the past few years
44:23 in the search for solution for refugees
44:27 and other internally displaced persons
44:29 has really been a game changer.
44:31 And I'm also particularly pleased to be on this panel with
44:34 the Director General Botero and State Secretary Gumene
44:37 since I was fortunate to travel to Colombia last November
44:41 and to Moldova earlier this month.
44:44 As you heard from the Secretary of State Gumene,
44:48 both countries are models in the way they are receiving
44:53 and including people forced to flee their home.
44:58 To respond to your question, there are many lessons
45:01 that we are learning from, unfortunately, the growing of forced displacement crisis
45:06 that we are seeing around the world.
45:08 Earlier, we made reference to Venezuela, Afghanistan, to Myanmar,
45:13 to Yemen, the Sahel, Ethiopia, just to name a few.
45:16 And many of these situations are protracted.
45:19 I would say that the key lesson is that
45:22 purely humanitarian responses are insufficient and often inadequate.
45:29 What we need is the involvement
45:31 of the development sector from the outside of the crisis
45:37 to ensure a long-term perspective.
45:40 The inclusion of refugees in national services,
45:43 such as health, education, and the ability to be economic actors
45:48 are the best and most effective paths towards [inaudible].
45:55 This is what I've seen in Colombia,
45:58 where I am sure we will hear later on,
46:02 the government has regularized 1.7 million nationals,
46:07 allowing them to work, allowing them to be a part of,
46:10 to have access to social services.
46:13 And this is also what we're seeing happening now in Moldova.
46:20 [Kathleen Hays] Alejandra, let's turn to you now
46:22 because Colombia has become for several years now
46:28 a critical refuge for Venezuelans.
46:30 Venezuelan migrants who are leaving
46:32 because of insecurity, instability, violence.
46:35 How did this evolve? How did you do what you had to do?
46:39 And could you have any suggestions, any share of your experience
46:43 for what other countries can do in this position?
46:45 [Alejandra Botero] Thank you for your question
46:47 and thank you to the World Bank for this invitation
46:49 and for being able to share this space with such interesting colleagues.
46:55 Effectively, this has been, as the State Secretary was saying,
46:59 we have about 4% of the population, right now,
47:02 of Colombia is comprised of Venezuelan migrants.
47:05 Six million Venezuelans have left Venezuela.
47:08 Of them, five are staying in Latin America.
47:10 And it is estimated that around two million of them are in Colombia.
47:14 We're a country of 50 million people, so about 4%.
47:16 [RESPONDING TO THE REFUGEE CRISIS] Of these 2 million people,
47:19 half of them are undocumented.
47:21 So, they come, they cross the border without any documents,
47:23 without anything.
47:24 97% of them are under 55,
47:27 40% are between 25 and 50, so, working age.
47:34 and rest are young, youth.
47:36 You have to have a very focused mechanism
47:38 on families who are coming.
47:40 Mostly looking for economic opportunities.
47:42 And they're coming.
47:43 People are coming to work and the children.
47:45 What I think is the key issue, I think what has been recognized
47:48 internationally is a temporary protection statute
47:51 that we emitted last year.
47:53 It's a temporary protection statute for 10 years.
47:55 Very few countries in the world
47:56 have done a 10 year working permit.
47:59 It gives every single right except voting rights.
48:02 Social rights, civil rights, economic rights.
48:04 It's like being a Colombian citizen without the voting,
48:07 but it has every single other opportunity.
48:09 It's very integral
48:11 and it's very long-term in its approach
48:13 because it's really going to allow these families
48:15 to set up a life in Colombia.
48:18 Now, this can't be done if we don't think about
48:20 an articulation of all the other sectors in addition to migration,
48:24 both on a national level or on a territorial level.
48:27 If we're going to promise to give them all the services,
48:30 so that they can be a part of the social system
48:32 that they can be part of the health system,
48:34 that they can go to the schools, everything,
48:36 you have to have a plan to integrate the migrants at all these sectors
48:39 and that's why setting up a center of government approach,
48:43 it's an office in the presidency
48:45 that makes sure that all the sectors are doing the plan at the same time.
48:49 This has been very short and very recent.
48:52 To give you an example, we have to make sure
48:54 that the banks accept the temporary credit
48:57 to be able to open an account.
48:58 You have to make sure that they are in the health service,
49:01 so that they can access the health program and so on,
49:03 That's why you need to have a national level approach
49:07 that has to come hand in hand
49:08 with the work with the local governments.
49:10 That would be the other recommendation.
49:12 I think that would be in summary what we need to do,
49:14 like a big plan, a very inclusive fraternal plan,
49:17 but that has the whole government working together,
49:19 both on a national level and on a territory level.
49:22 [Kathleen Hays] This is a great idea turned into action
49:24 All the nuts and bolts you need to get it done.
49:26 Very impressive, very exciting.
49:28 [Alejandra Botero] Thank you.
49:28 [Kathleen Hays] Back to you, Secretary Gumene.
49:30 Obviously, the international community is helping Moldova
49:32 take in all these refugees.
49:34 I know you're very grateful.
49:36 I still want to know what more could they do?
49:38 What could be done better?
49:39 I'm seeing so clearly in this event today
49:43 there are lots of great ideas,
49:45 but one of the biggest challenges
49:46 is making the idea the intention,
49:48 even the money flow through to what it needs to do.
49:52 [Ion Gumene] Thank you.
49:53 First of all, for this opportunity and for your support,
49:57 for the support of the donor community.
50:00 I would like to say
50:03 that the economy, the budget was hit
50:07 by the energy crisis last year,
50:10 the prices on energy increased by 360%.
50:15 It's a lot, so the pressure on the budget was there.
50:20 Then, the refugee crisis came.
50:23 The government did it quickly.
50:25 I didn't expect some additional support for donors,
50:29 just relocating the money from one development program
50:33 to the refugees.
50:36 We had a great support so it's an example
50:40 how donors' community communicated, coordinated themselves.
50:45 The World Bank, IMF, and the EU mobilized very quickly
50:49 so decision was taken in several months.
50:53 To put additional budget support
50:57 for the national budget of Moldova
51:02 to close the budget deficit, first of all.
51:06 But we somehow reached the borrowing level.
51:09 That's why we are requesting for new grant support.
51:19 First of all, budget support
51:21 which could be absorbed quickly,
51:24 and there is no room to wait for project development,
51:25 There is no room to wait for project development,
51:28 to wait for years for things to happen.
51:34 Budget support is one channel.
51:37 The second channel is to readjust existing projects.
51:40 We have, as I said, the energy crisis.
51:43 Our primary priority is energy efficiency.
51:47 We are looking forward
51:49 to adapt all existing projects.
51:54 Coming first of all for Moldova is
51:58 energy efficiency and then economic resilience.
52:02 As I said, we have
52:04 an economic crisis due the other crisis,
52:08 then social cohesion.
52:11 And the most important...
52:15 An equally important thing is to reduce
52:17 the threats of hybrid war
52:21 which is there in Moldova.
52:23 If we want financing,
52:25 we risk jeopardizing economic development
52:33 and to split the society because we have this political fragmentation.
52:37 We have pro-Russian political parties and cities as well.
52:46 We are looking forward to modernizing
52:51 all the resources quickly
52:53 and to ensure that there is social cohesion in society.
52:58 We are moving,
53:01 despite the crisis, the refugee crisis, the energy crisis.
53:05 We're looking forward to implement
53:06 the reforms developed at the model of society.
53:10 [Kathleen Hays] Very complicated moving parts.
53:12 In the end, they all work together and it matters to get them working together.
53:16 Let's get back to Raouf now.
53:17 Food insecurity.
53:19 This is a major concern in the world due to the war in Ukraine.
53:24 Clearly. We had it, but this has ramped it up in so much.
53:29 What are you doing to relieve hunger
53:32 and to create ways for refugees at the same time to make a living?
53:36 A two-part question.
53:37 You got to be able to eat and get the food.
53:39 But even then, if you're a refugee, you need to have a livelihood.
53:43 [Raouf Mazou] Yes, indeed.
53:45 It's important to also underline
53:47 that the countries that are most exposed
53:50 to the crisis or to the impact of the crisis in Ukraine
53:54 are more immediately in contact in Central Asia,
53:58 Eastern Europe, Middle East and [inaudible] Africa,
54:03 which together host more than 85% of the war refugees.
54:08 A lot of the refugee population
54:11 also depends directly on humanitarian food assistance.
54:15 Ten million refugees
54:18 are receiving food assistance from WFP
54:22 to meet their food needs.
54:24 It is clear that the increase in food cost
54:28 is going to also have an impact
54:30 on people who really, truly need assistance.
54:36 We will continue to advocate for humanitarian assistance.
54:42 As you say,
54:43 the best way to mitigate the impact in the long run
54:46 is to try and reduce dependence.
54:51 For that we need to allow refugees to contribute
54:58 to the productive capacity to the economy of the country.
55:02 There are many places where refugees
55:05 could actually farm
55:06 and contribute to the economy of the country where they are.
55:12 For that they need support.
55:14 We have several programs with the World Bank,
55:19 The WFP helps to try and make sure that we work with governments
55:24 and make sure that we try to reduce the dependency
55:28 on external food assistance like right now.
55:32 There is potential in that.
55:33 We are even doing very innovative things with the World Bank.
55:38 Insect and hydroponic farming for instance.
55:41 These are things that we are pushing for.
55:45 Last year there was a number of reference made to the private sector.
55:51 We are initiating a very innovative and promising partnership
55:58 with the IFC to help structure
56:01 and better harness the role that the private sector can play
56:06 in the search for solution for displacement.
56:10 This collaboration will also help
56:12 support agricultural production around the world
56:16 in refugee settings, among others.
56:20 [Kathleen Hays] A lot going on.
56:22 Alejandra, want to go to you now because the big question is a very simple one.
56:26 How about helping the most vulnerable, women, women with children, kids?
56:33 [Alejandra Botero] Absolutely. That is the key focus.
56:35 As Raouf was saying,
56:37 the focus on the humanitarian in the long-term
56:39 and in the very closely medium-term is on the social economic inclusion.
56:44 In that sense,
56:45 the numbers of the temporary protection status
56:48 show that almost 100%
56:50 of the Venezuelan population that is now in Colombia
56:53 has applied for the temporary protection status.
56:56 We've given around 700 thousand already physically.
56:59 When they apply, they have to fill up a questionnaire.
57:03 That questionnaire serves to understand who they are
57:06 because half of them were undocumented.
57:08 Who they are, what education level do they have?
57:11 What skills do they have?
57:12 Where do they think we're going?
57:14 That information is fundamental
57:16 to be able to target the most vulnerable population.
57:19 In that sense, for example,
57:21 one of the biggest issues that we've had is the fiscal way that this has meant
57:25 on the health system.
57:27 They're coming in very dire conditions
57:29 directly to the emergency system when they're not regulated.
57:32 In the emergency system versus being part of the health system,
57:36 it costs 2.5 times more to help someone.
57:39 We make sure with the temporary protection status
57:42 that they are in the health system.
57:44 That way it's less expensive for the country to be able to help them.
57:48 It has been one of the key success factors
57:50 regarding the health program.
57:52 We work with the local governments to see which hospitals
57:55 are attending the biggest number of migrants
57:59 and refugees on one sense.
58:01 On the other sense,
58:02 about 55% of the population that is coming in is under 24.
58:06 To have a differentiated approach
58:09 for education and for young children is fundamental.
58:13 For example, as the director of UNICEF was saying,
58:16 the desertion rate is much higher
58:18 in the migrant than in the general population
58:21 because they're traveling itinerantly
58:23 until they know what they're going to stay.
58:25 Having a very focused approach
58:28 on these migrant children in particular
58:30 to make sure that they go to school,
58:32 that their track continues is fundamental.
58:34 Finally, I think one of the great success factors that we've had in Colombia
58:38 is skill set programs and certification programs
58:41 to make sure that very quickly
58:43 they are productive, get a job
58:44 and are able to support their families and so on and so forth.
58:48 In that sense, certification programs of the skill set.
58:51 If you work in construction,
58:53 show that you know these skills in construction.
58:55 or you work in engineering, you know these skills.
58:58 That's important to send a message.
59:00 It's like an invitation letter that I know what I'm doing, and I can get a job,
59:03 which I think has been a very differentiate approach.
59:07 To give you an example,
59:08 we did a pilot program called Certification a few months ago
59:12 with three thousand Colombians and Venezuelans who applied for this program.
59:16 Of the three thousand, one thousand were Venezuelans.
59:19 So almost a third.
59:21 They needed to have that certification to be able to get a job
59:25 with a skill set that has been certified.
59:27 [Kathleen Hays] It's been a great discussion, the three of you,
59:31 bringing together the immediate problems,
59:34 how you're dealing with them right now, the big picture from the UN,
59:39 and then this very specific program. Fascinating.
59:42 I think it's been very illuminating and we appreciate it so much.
59:46 It's clear that all these things
59:48 have long-term benefits for helping displaced and their host communities.
59:54 Now we want to turn to another part of the world.
59:56 In the West Bank amid persistent and unpredictable power cuts.
01:00:00 Think of how that disrupts your daily life.
01:00:02 A local company is investing in solar power to light up classrooms and futures.
01:00:08 Let's hear from a student now.
01:00:12 [BEIT HANINA, WEST BANK]
01:00:16 [Abdullah] My name is Abdulah Yasser Ahmed Suliman.
01:00:18 [Abdullah's education has been disrupted by power blackouts.]
01:00:24 [Leaving students without fans, lights and computers.]
01:00:29 In the winter, the power goes out almost every day.
01:00:34 Teachers struggle to give their lessons because we don't have things like projectors.
01:00:41 We can't turn heaters on in our classrooms,
01:00:44 which are cold most of the time.
01:00:48 Now that the solar panels have been installed, things have improved.
01:00:53 There are no more blackouts and classes can continue uninterrupted.
01:00:59 Education will help start businesses and employ people, improving the country.
01:01:07 As long as the sun is there, we will have electricity and things will be better.
01:01:17 [BISHKEK, KYRGYZ REPUBLIC]
01:01:18 [Jyldyz] I'm Jyldyz in BishkeK, Kyrgyz Republic,
01:01:20 and you are watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
01:01:27 [Kathleen Hays] We just saw an impressive example in the West Bank
01:01:31 how innovative private sector investments
01:01:33 can make a big difference in people's everyday lives.
01:01:36 Let's find out more about how the private sector
01:01:39 can play an essential role even in situations
01:01:42 where there is ongoing conflict or a lack of strong institutions.
01:01:46 Makhtar Diop is the Managing Director of the International Finance Corporation,
01:01:51 It is a member of the World Bank Group,
01:01:52 and the largest global development institution
01:01:55 focused on the private sector in emerging markets.
01:01:59 He is going to lead our next discussion.
01:02:01 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:02:03 We have been hearing about the multiple crisis
01:02:05 that countries are facing across the globe.
01:02:08 War, conflicts, climate change, forced displacement,
01:02:12 and the lasting impact of these COVID-19 pandemic.
01:02:15 We have also heard that this compounding crisis
01:02:19 requires collective response and innovative partnership.
01:02:23 I must say that in my entire career,
01:02:26 I've never seen a period like this,
01:02:28 with so many shocks and so many different types of shocks
01:02:32 and the magnitude and the size of these shocks.
01:02:35 We are faced with a multi-faced challenge
01:02:39 in a very unpredictable geopolitical environment.
01:02:43 At the same time, more than ever,
01:02:46 we know the private sector can play a role
01:02:49 in promoting peace and prosperity.
01:02:52 The situation demands, obviously,
01:02:54 bold action to venture the world in the most difficult places.
01:03:00 We need to be persuasive enough
01:03:02 to convince our private sector partner to invest in fragile countries
01:03:06 but we also need to think differently about this context.
01:03:10 I'm delighted to welcome today
01:03:12 Donald Kaberuka and Mary Nazzal, two champions of impact investing.
01:03:18 With them, we will explore how the private sector
01:03:21 can be a force for good
01:03:22 even in the most challenging circumstances.
01:03:26 Donald Kaberuka is very known in the world.
01:03:29 He is a current Chairman and Managing Partner of SouthBridge
01:03:35 and the African Union High Representative
01:03:37 on Financing, Peace Fund and the COVID-19 crisis.
01:03:42 For ten years, he's also been
01:03:45 President of the African Development Bank,
01:03:47 and, before that, Minister for Finance in Rwanda.
01:03:50 A very large experience in development policy.
01:03:55 Mary is the founder of Landmark Hotels & 17 Ventures,
01:04:00 an impact investment and advisory firm
01:04:03 focused on advancing the UN sustainable development goals.
01:04:07 In 2019 she was considered
01:04:11 the best businesswoman in the region,
01:04:13 and she has received many awards for a fantastic job.
01:04:17 Donald, let's start with you.
01:04:19 I know you are passionate about what you have been doing on fragility.
01:04:23 Tell me,
01:04:25 what role can the private sector play in the absence of a functioning government
01:04:29 and in a period of active conflict?
01:04:34 [Donald Kaberuka] Makhtar, thank you very much for inviting me
01:04:38 to be here with my colleague.
01:04:42 Let me first of all say that when I was president of the African Development Bank,
01:04:46 one of the first things I did was to create a department,
01:04:50 a fully-fledged department, to deal with the fragility
01:04:56 in some parts of Africa
01:04:58 because I found that we are not good at doing it.
01:05:01 International organizations who are used to rewarding good performance.
01:05:06 Indeed, the way they allocate resources is known as performance-based allocation,
01:05:11 which means that those countries who are in conflict
01:05:15 are not getting the resources they need actually to get things done.
01:05:19 I keep that Department.
01:05:21 Second, I recognize that, when we say situation fragility,
01:05:28 it basically means that there's no effective state
01:05:31 to deliver services and to perform its legal function.
01:05:37 I'll give you an example.
01:05:38 A place where the state doesn't have enough money to provide for security,
01:05:43 or sometimes they create insecurity themselves.
01:05:46 They don't control all parts of the country.
01:05:49 Often, the fiscal base is so narrow,
01:05:53 that citizens have to self-provide their own infrastructure.
01:05:57 If you consider Somalia, Africa's failed state,
01:06:02 which was a failed state for almost 40 years.
01:06:04 there is a business community
01:06:06 which actually kept the country together in some ways.
01:06:10 If you go to a place like Hargeisa or even Mogadishu,
01:06:14 what was providing hospitals, schools, infrastructure, digital facility
01:06:20 was the business people supported by banks like Dahabshiil,
01:06:27 which had found a way of making transfers from Somalis abroad quite effective.
01:06:34 So, yeah, business can actually
01:06:38 function reasonably well
01:06:41 even when the state isn't able to perform its function.
01:06:45 But this is what it means.
01:06:48 Makhtar, number one, business does not have to mean big business,
01:06:53 because often when it's a private sector, when it's a business,
01:06:57 people immediately think of the large businesses of this world,
01:06:59 Microsoft and the like of that.
01:07:02 No, it means the smallest company delivering digital payments,
01:07:07 the smallest company delivering goods and services
01:07:13 and a lot of jobs in IDP camps.
01:07:18 I recently shared a panel
01:07:20 with the former Prime Minister of the UK, David Cameron,
01:07:23 on internally displaced persons, 70 million of them worldwide.
01:07:27 One of the things we're looking at is
01:07:29 what is a lot of business, what is the opportunity for business?
01:07:34 We found that far too often, actually, these small businesses,
01:07:42 what we call the informal sector, unfortunately,
01:07:45 are actually the ones able to provide the diligence which people need.
01:07:51 The absence of government, curiously enough actually,
01:07:56 often removed the burden,
01:08:01 especially the regulatory burden on some of them.
01:08:04 Now, I'm not saying that that is necessarily a good thing
01:08:08 because you need a business environment which is regulated,
01:08:11 which can set the disputes and a lot of it.
01:08:14 The experiences since Somalia, are basically
01:08:17 people have been set up informal rules and regulations,
01:08:20 informal dispute resolution mechanisms,
01:08:23 and business has been booming,
01:08:25 including some large companies like Coca Cola and so on under franchise.
01:08:31 It is not easy.
01:08:34 It does not mean big business always.
01:08:38 It means that for governments that don't control the whole country
01:08:42 or don't have enough fiscal resources to provide for food and services,
01:08:46 people have to self-provide.
01:08:48 What is the plan for the skills and acumen of these business men and women?
01:08:55 Issue number one for us, Makhtar,
01:08:57 is to identify those kinds of men and women
01:09:01 who have skills and acumen to operate in difficult environments
01:09:04 where governments are failing or have failed.
01:09:07 Far too often we focus on only the large companies.
01:09:11 The second thing, the World Bank a long time ago
01:09:15 set up something which I find completely exemplary.
01:09:21 It worked with governments of some African countries,
01:09:24 I was in government around that time,
01:09:26 and we agreed to part with a bit of our IDA allocation money
01:09:32 to seed an organization called the ATI, the African Trade Insurance Agency,
01:09:36 which basically picked up the risks in countries
01:09:40 in civil wars or coming out of civil wars
01:09:44 where business, both production and trading, was difficult.
01:09:47 Unfortunately, this example is not good to scale,
01:09:50 but I really hope that we learn from the ATI.
01:09:53 I agreed as Minister finance to part
01:09:56 with part of our IDA allocation to seed the ATI.
01:09:59 I can tell you ATI has been exemplary.
01:10:01 I just wish it had been brought to scale
01:10:04 because it has the capacity to pick up some of those risks
01:10:08 which some business people are not willing to take up.
01:10:11 Over to you, Makhtar.
01:10:13 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you. You brought me to a time
01:10:16 when I visited Somalia
01:10:19 and it was amazing to see how the private sector
01:10:22 was brilliant and was creative.
01:10:24 Mary, you might think that the situation is very different
01:10:27 in the Palestinian territories, but there are a lot of similarities
01:10:31 with what has been said by Donald in some parts of Africa.
01:10:37 If I look at your experience, you've been someone who's extraordinary,
01:10:40 moving from Jordan to bringing your business to Gaza.
01:10:47 Tell me a little bit,
01:10:49 what is the success of your model
01:10:51 and how do you measure success in general?
01:10:57 [Mary Nazzal] Thank you for the question and for having me.
01:11:00 I think the importance of the private sector
01:11:02 in all kinds of states is extremely important.
01:11:08 My work or the model of our work
01:11:11 has always been at the nexus of business, social justice and human rights.
01:11:17 Our family business, which is Landmark,
01:11:20 has operated with the community needs always being at the forefront.
01:11:26 I think with our platforms,
01:11:28 our employee base, our client base, it shows that medium-sized companies
01:11:33 have a huge platform to help push towards change for good.
01:11:40 The model that we have, our core value,
01:11:43 is that you can do well and do good at the same time.
01:11:47 We have adopted several causes, whether they are poverty, displacement,
01:11:54 gender equality, sustainable agriculture as part of our business.
01:11:59 We have also partnered with organizations such as Endeavor
01:12:03 to create an innovation impact hub within our hotel.
01:12:08 This shows, because the private sector is so agile,
01:12:13 it can take on causes beyond their core business.
01:12:17 I think, looking at the multiple crises that we are facing as humanity,
01:12:22 even pre-pandemic,
01:12:24 it shows that the public sector, private sector and civil society
01:12:29 need to work together within the spirit of SDG 17,
01:12:33 and 17 is the guiding principle of my company, 17 Ventures.
01:12:38 I think the previous speaker
01:12:40 made an excellent point regarding the size of the company that can make an impact.
01:12:45 As you brought that point up, I'd like to state that I am speaking
01:12:50 to you today from a very small but aspiring company called Kama.
01:12:56 This is a social enterprise that is empowering women all over Jordan
01:13:01 to create artisan products for exports.
01:13:04 It's an example of how a small company
01:13:07 can create jobs for women who need it the most.
01:13:10 There is another company that I'd like to highlight
01:13:13 that I've been supporting for the past 10 years:
01:13:16 called SEP Jordan.
01:13:18 This is Jordan's first B Corps.
01:13:21 They are creating jobs
01:13:24 in the poorest refugee camp in Jordan, the most marginalized.
01:13:28 You mentioned Gaza in your introduction.
01:13:31 These women come from the Gaza refugee camp,
01:13:34 but it is a social enterprise.
01:13:36 It is a business that has the empowerment of women as their key goal.
01:13:43 The point is that, no matter what your business is,
01:13:47 whether it's making Za'atar, which is a local herb,
01:13:50 or whether it's embroidery on scarves like SEP Jordan,
01:13:54 you can always incorporate
01:13:56 social justice work or human rights work within your business.
01:14:00 I think now we realize that all of us, including the private sector at the helm,
01:14:06 need to be working on these issues with urgency.
01:14:10 [Makhtar Diop] You made a powerful point.
01:14:12 Actually, it was a conversation that I had with the head of UNHCR
01:14:18 in a place that Donald knows very well
01:14:21 in the north of Kenya at the border of Somalia,
01:14:23 where we try to work with UNHCR to develop economic activity within the camp.
01:14:29 It's an old economy is existing in those camps.
01:14:34 Both of you made a very strong point:
01:14:36 let's not look only at large companies, small companies matter,
01:14:41 and they're the ones who are starting and will be creating those markets.
01:14:46 What needs to be done to attract them, to derisk them?
01:14:50 There are companies which don't have a lot of financial resources
01:14:54 which are entering a difficult environment.
01:14:56 What can we do more to support you
01:14:59 and to support from a policy stand what they are doing?
01:15:03 Donald mentioned ATI which was an experience, but what else?
01:15:06 We are talking more and more about blended finance.
01:15:09 What do you think about it? Donald?
01:15:14 [Donald Kaberuka] First of all, what these people need
01:15:17 is what you and I understand.
01:15:20 They need security, security for themselves
01:15:23 and security for their people and their workers.
01:15:28 The first thing I'm talking about
01:15:31 is that often these people are operating in areas of very high insecurity.
01:15:36 There's nothing you or the World Bank can do about it
01:15:41 In Somalia, they have created their own forms of community security.
01:15:47 That is the big problem which I cannot resolve.
01:15:50 The second point I felt I made at the beginning
01:15:54 is that, curiously enough, large companies,
01:15:58 when it comes to the extractive industry,
01:16:03 they find a way around it,
01:16:07 due to the specific reasons of rent available there, especially at that time,
01:16:14 What they need most
01:16:17 is someone to pick up some of the risks that they face.
01:16:22 I said to pick up some of the risk that they face,
01:16:25 though they cannot share all the risk.
01:16:28 The World Bank in the past
01:16:29 has been very instrumental in experimenting
01:16:32 with some of those risk-mitigating instruments
01:16:35 for some of these small businesses.
01:16:40 I'm talking about things like
01:16:42 partial guarantees, first loss, which can be covered.
01:16:46 We need to figure out how they can operate at all levels,
01:16:49 not simply for big businesses.
01:16:51 In particular,
01:16:53 first loss has been very effective.
01:16:57 Partial guarantees is very effective.
01:16:59 The way we have applied so far
01:17:03 begins at companies of similar size to the ones the colleagues mention.
01:17:10 That would be helpful.
01:17:12 The second is what I call "fluid forms of finance"
01:17:16 and which are described this way.
01:17:18 If we could use just a bit of IDA, like they are trying to do now,
01:17:23 to provide some of that first loss, for example,
01:17:28 that would be hugely important for the countries,
01:17:31 maybe more than just passive returns in closed envelopes.
01:17:35 I want you to figure out how this can be done.
01:17:39 The first thing they will need is data, information,
01:17:42 because I told you, in these countries,
01:17:45 maybe security or infrastructure are shut,
01:17:48 but there are business people with amazing skills and knowledge.
01:17:52 They need data and that you can easily provide.
01:17:58 Finally,
01:18:00 I think we have to figure out
01:18:03 how to work with the local financial institutions,
01:18:07 what remains of those institutions.
01:18:10 Look, take a bank like Dahabshiil.
01:18:13 First time, the issue of money laundering
01:18:16 or terrorist financing was becoming a threat
01:18:19 and banks were being sanctioned.
01:18:25 A lot of European banks stop dealing with Dahabshiil.
01:18:29 You know this.
01:18:31 So all these transfers,
01:18:34 Somalis living in Scandinavia or Canada was difficult to transfer to their country.
01:18:38 I wrote a personal letter from European leaders in a number of banks.
01:18:43 I said, this is the wrong thing to do.
01:18:45 Let us identify who is the sender of the money,
01:18:48 who is the receiver of the money.
01:18:50 Let us have that data.
01:18:53 Once we have that,
01:18:54 then criminality in between can be minimized.
01:18:58 Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
01:19:02 Fluid finance,
01:19:04 somebody to take the lost,
01:19:06 a bit of data
01:19:07 and some imagination around traditional products
01:19:10 like partial guarantees and first loss.
01:19:12 My colleague knows more than me on this.
01:19:16 Working from the Jordan.
01:19:18 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you very much, Donald.
01:19:20 Mary, what is your take on this?
01:19:22 Same question.
01:19:23 What will make you invest more and do more of what you're already doing?
01:19:29 [Mary Bazzal] We have worked from 2018
01:19:33 to design the first blended finance investment fund for Jordan,
01:19:38 and we used the first loss facility.
01:19:41 The idea there, of course, was to derisk, real risk or perceived risk.
01:19:46 I don't really know sometimes what it is
01:19:49 but the whole idea behind blending at the fund level
01:19:54 was to try and drive new capital,
01:19:56 private capital, to the region within which we work.
01:20:01 I think it's early to tell from my perspective
01:20:04 whether that level of blending and innovation at the fund level
01:20:09 can actually have the effect of moving the capital
01:20:13 we really need to move.
01:20:15 It's not about having DFIs or donors come in a funds like that.
01:20:21 The whole point of having the first loss, or sub debt
01:20:24 or whatever is guaranteed facility is to drive new capital,
01:20:28 and I think we know that that is what we need to be doing.
01:20:31 I think the other issue generally
01:20:34 is a change of mindset within the investor mindset.
01:20:38 For example, Jordan and Palestine are perfect examples
01:20:43 of where impact capital could be going.
01:20:46 Our fund,
01:20:48 the Jordan Growth and Impact Fund, which also looks at Palestine,
01:20:52 has a clear SDG lens in the sense that
01:20:55 we have an impact management and measurement framework
01:20:59 to forward the SDG agenda.
01:21:02 Also, for those who are interested in gender equality,
01:21:05 we are seeking to invest in companies
01:21:07 that increase female participation in the workforce.
01:21:11 Additionally, we have a refugee lens in the sense that we are looking
01:21:15 to invest in companies that hire refugees or are run by refugees.
01:21:19 We're also looking at companies that are inclusive
01:21:22 when it comes to people with disabilities.
01:21:25 We have to identify and increase the amount of impact capital providers
01:21:31 that are looking beyond the bottom line.
01:21:34 But I think for all investors,
01:21:37 countries need to have an investment climate
01:21:40 where they find consistency, transparency,
01:21:45 especially when it comes to tax regulations.
01:21:49 There needs to be a healthy environment for all investors.
01:21:54 This is something that is exceedingly difficult in Palestine
01:21:58 given the dysfunctional political realities on the ground there.
01:22:01 But even in a country like Jordan,
01:22:04 which is very stable and has a thriving ecosystem,
01:22:08 the investor climate is still something that needs work.
01:22:11 Now Jordan has recently created a Ministry of Investment
01:22:16 that I would be supporting to ensure that all investors feel secure
01:22:21 when deploying their capital in Jordan.
01:22:24 [Makhtar Diop] Thank you very much, Donald and Mary,
01:22:26 for joining us for this discussion.
01:22:29 It was fantastic to hear so many interesting ideas,
01:22:33 but also a lot of experience.
01:22:34 You raise a large number of very important points
01:22:39 which will help us think again at the way we are working in federal state.
01:22:44 But luckily, there is a lot of convergence of views around what you said.
01:22:49 You talked about financial institution.
01:22:51 You talk about size of companies investing in financial countries.
01:22:55 You talked about security.
01:22:57 You talk about violence.
01:22:58 You talk more importantly about blending finance.
01:23:01 They need to bring more resources to help companies with their first losses,
01:23:07 to be able to reduce the cost of capital and to be able to add the social impact
01:23:11 that we all want to have in those countries.
01:23:15 Looking forward, we will be working towards
01:23:18 increasing the size of branded finance, to mobilize more resources
01:23:23 from donor countries, but also in IDA to have
01:23:27 broader and larger PSW, private sector window,
01:23:31 to derisk those investments that you talked about.
01:23:34 By derisking them,
01:23:36 not only will you be able to have a small bit of money prices you mentioned,
01:23:40 but also you would be able to attract more capital.
01:23:43 That's what will be our agenda for the coming years.
01:23:48 We are looking forward to working with you.
01:23:51 Thank you so very much for joining us and providing us so much insight.
01:23:55 Talk to you next time.
01:23:57 Bye.
01:24:01 [Kathleen Hays] I'm joined now by Sri Sridhar,
01:24:03 who's been following the conversation online on social media.
01:24:07 So, Sri, I'm very curious to know what people have been saying
01:24:10 because we've had all these great examples
01:24:12 of what's really going on on the ground,
01:24:15 how so many agencies, different people are trying to help.
01:24:18 So I'm curious what the audience has picked up on.
01:24:20 [Srimathi Sridhar] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:24:21 Great to be here with you today.
01:24:22 So people are joining us from all over the world.
01:24:24 A snapshot, they're here from India, France, Philippines,
01:24:27 [Srimathi Sridhar, Communications Officer, WBG]
01:24:28 Egypt, Kenya, Malaysia,
01:24:30 and of course, here in the United States.
01:24:32 They're using the hashtag for today's event, which is #RisingFragility.
01:24:37 They're joining on our Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and also Instagram channels.
01:24:42 But what are they talking about, Kathleen?
01:24:43 They're talking about the need to invest in communities to address
01:24:47 the causes of fragility and conflict, like poverty, injustice, inequality.
01:24:52 But they're also noting that it's important
01:24:54 to protect the most vulnerable and also support refugees.
01:24:58 Why don't we take a look now at some of the comments
01:25:00 that has been coming in social channels.
01:25:02 We have a comment here on LinkedIn for Priscila and Brazil.
01:25:06 She says that "countries should direct their resources
01:25:09 to help vulnerable people and countries"
01:25:11 and that "in adverse and fragile times, there should be world cooperation and wisdom
01:25:16 to address issues such as climate change and poverty."
01:25:20 [Kathleen Hays] Wisdom is very important.
01:25:21 [Srimathi Sridhar] Very much so.
01:25:22 Our next comment here comes in on Facebook from Paul in Kenya.
01:25:27 He's saying, "some of the conflicts occur in the most remote areas of countries.
01:25:31 To create a long-term solution and ensure sustainable peace,
01:25:35 governments and development partners should open up these areas
01:25:39 through infrastructure development."
01:25:41 So hitting on a key area there.
01:25:44 And to wrap things up, on Instagram, Dpika talks about women and children
01:25:49 and says that support to fragile countries really starts by helping them first.
01:25:54 [Kathleen Hays] We can see so much of that nowadays.
01:25:56 Speaking of women and children, speaking about questions,
01:26:00 what are our poll results?
01:26:03 There's some very tough decisions in there about well, you set it up.
01:26:07 [Srimathi Sridhar] This is a great segue to our poll today.
01:26:09 We asked what should be the top priority for a country
01:26:12 that's going through conflict and fragility?
01:26:15 Six options here.
01:26:16 Is it social protection for the poor,
01:26:19 addressing food insecurity, inclusion of vulnerable groups,
01:26:23 survival of local businesses, peace talks and conflict resolution,
01:26:27 or is it addressing domestic and interpersonal violence?
01:26:30 I mean, these are all really such great options.
01:26:34 It's hard to pick.
01:26:35 [Kathleen Hays] It is.
01:26:35 [Srimathi Sridhar] What are you leaning towards?
01:26:36 [Kathleen Hays] I'm leaning towards
01:26:37 food insecurity or social protection for the poor.
01:26:40 So I think I'm going to go for food insecurity for the poor.
01:26:45 [Srimathi Sridhar] I am going to go for social protection for the poor.
01:26:47 But shall we see how people voted?
01:26:49 [Kathleen Hays] Yes, please.
01:26:50 [Srimathi Sridhar] We had over 200 people take part in this poll.
01:26:53 results coming up here on the right,
01:26:55 23%, believe the top priority is social protection for the poor.
01:26:58 22%, addressing food and security,
01:27:01 11%, inclusion of vulnerable groups,
01:27:04 7%, survival of local businesses.
01:27:07 [Kathleen Hays] Peace talks and conflict resolution.
01:27:09 [Srimathi Sridhar] 28% is peace talks and conflict resolution,
01:27:12 and finally at 9%, addressing domestic and interpersonal violence.
01:27:15 So most people here believe peace talks and conflict resolution is the top priority.
01:27:19 [Kathleen Hays] It's hard not to say that any one of those isn't so vital.
01:27:22 [Srimathi Sridhar] Exactly.
01:27:23 [Kathleen Hays] Sri, thank you so much for joining us.
01:27:25 Great job with the social media and the poll.
01:27:27 We really appreciate it.
01:27:30 [NIAMEY, NIGER] [Mouslim] I'm Mouslim in Niamey, Niger,
01:27:33 and you are watching the World Bank Group-IMF Spring Meetings.
01:27:43 [Kathleen Hays] I'm joined here now
01:27:44 in the atrium of the World Bank Group by Soukeyna Kane.
01:27:47 She's the Director of the Fragility, Conflict and Violence Group at the World Bank.
01:27:51 And by Aisha Williams, who is the Director of Blended Finance and Corporate Strategy
01:27:55 at the IFC
01:27:56 They're going to be answering some of the questions
01:27:58 you've been posting in just a moment.
01:28:00 But first, I want to recap the main points we've heard in the past hour,
01:28:03 how we can help the most vulnerable.
01:28:05 We heard that, for example, we live in a world of multidimensional risk.
01:28:10 It's not just war, it's also pandemics, weak institutions,
01:28:13 social tension, food insecurity, inequality, climate change,
01:28:17 they all impact human lives, especially the most vulnerable.
01:28:20 Fragile and conflicted affected economies need investment and a vibrant private sector
01:28:25 to create local jobs, generate economic growth and revenues,
01:28:29 build infrastructure, support their families.
01:28:32 Effective and accountable institutions are crucial
01:28:36 in preventing and responding to conflict.
01:28:38 We heard a lot of people from institutions talking about their efforts today.
01:28:42 Forced displacement is a global crisis, yet if managed with inclusive policies.
01:28:47 We heard a lot about that in Colombia.
01:28:49 Refugees can bring about social and economic prosperity
01:28:53 to their whole communities.
01:28:55 Now got it all set up.
01:28:57 Let's hear from Soukeyna Kane and Aisha William.
01:29:00 Soukeyna, I'm going to start with you.
01:29:02 We have a question from Patricia Coma, and it is this,
01:29:06 how does the World Bank manage or address
01:29:09 social situations or tensions in conflict zones
01:29:12 and in areas or countries that host refugees?
01:29:15 That has got to be so very tough,
01:29:17 particularly trying to get anything done in a conflict zone.
01:29:20 [Soukeyna Kane] Thank you, Kathleen.
01:29:21 First of all, it's critical for the Bank to address the issues in social conflict,
01:29:27 [Soukeyna Kane, Director, Fragility, Conflict and Violence Group, World Bank]
01:29:29 when you have tension by doing a lot of based on our toolkit.
01:29:34 First what we need, Kathy, is to have a good understanding
01:29:38 of what is or what are the sources of the tension,
01:29:43 and what can we do to build resilience in those communities.
01:29:49 The Bank has invested a significant amount of resources
01:29:53 in understanding the drivers of fragility, the root causes of fragile,
01:29:58 and more importantly,
01:29:59 translating those drivers of fragility into development projects.
01:30:07 That's the first thing we do.
01:30:10 The second thing is, Kathleen,
01:30:12 we heard today about the forcibly displaced people,
01:30:17 the number has doubled during the past decade.
01:30:22 We've seen that addressing the large flow of people
01:30:29 from countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Syria,
01:30:37 and now Ukraine, including as well, not to forget about the Sahel
01:30:42 is a key focus today of the Bank's intervention.
01:30:46 So, our focus is on short-term, medium-term and long-term.
01:30:53 What we try to do is really to provide basic access to basic services,
01:30:59 basic infrastructure,
01:31:01 provide as well social protection not only to the refugees,
01:31:06 but to include to the host communities.
01:31:10 By doing that, we need partnership, strong partnerships.
01:31:14 We cannot do it alone.
01:31:16 We developed strategic partnership with humanitarian, including
01:31:21 for the force displacement population work significantly with you and [inaudible].
01:31:27 As a result, we've seen it and we've heard it
01:31:30 from the director of planning early in Colombia
01:31:33 in countries like Colombia or Peru,
01:31:36 through multi-sectoral intervention and partnership,
01:31:39 we were really able to address and support
01:31:44 the forcibly displaced people and the host communities.
01:31:47 [Kathleen Hays] I agree.
01:31:48 It's a tremendous example for others to learn from us.
01:31:52 Aisha, now a question submitted by Ahmed through the website for this event.
01:31:57 It's submitted in Arabic.
01:31:58 Got that global reach.
01:31:59 That's what we wanted.
01:32:01 Financial. Financial, that's what I was stressed.
01:32:03 Financial inclusion is a sensitive issue, requires urgent solutions.
01:32:08 It's so important, I think of inclusion in so many ways.
01:32:11 What do you suggest to encourage to get to financial inclusion?
01:32:17 That's what so many people need.
01:32:18 [Aisha William] First of all, thank you very much
01:32:20 for not asking me the question in Arabic.
01:32:23 That would have been an additional challenge.
01:32:25 Clearly, financial inclusion is critical to development.
01:32:30 We believe in the World Bank that the private sector
01:32:33 has a really important role to play in supporting financial inclusion.
01:32:36 [Aisha William, Director, Blended Finance and Corporate Strategy, IFC]
01:32:38 A few statistics.
01:32:39 Nine out of ten companies firms in emerging markets
01:32:42 are medium, small and micro-sized enterprises.
01:32:46 These firms contribute upwards of 50% to the GDP and 60% to 70% to employment.
01:32:52 So supporting these firms is critical
01:32:55 to supporting development more broadly in these countries.
01:32:59 How do we do that?
01:33:00 Through a number of different ways.
01:33:02 At IFC, we work with SMEs through financial intermediaries.
01:33:08 We provide loans to financial intermediaries
01:33:12 for on lending to SME clients.
01:33:14 For example, in Haiti,
01:33:16 IFC lends to Sogesol, which is one of the largest
01:33:19 micro-finance institutions in the country,
01:33:21 which then supports women entrepreneurs, small farmers, and other such borrowers.
01:33:29 Financial innovation is also a key element here.
01:33:33 Initially, in the past, IFC has supported SMEs through,
01:33:37 as I said, individual loans to banking intermediaries.
01:33:41 To try and broaden our scope, IFC has recently launched
01:33:46 the Small Loan Guarantee Program, whereby we provide guarantees
01:33:50 to banks and to financial intermediaries to increase their loan portfolio to SMEs
01:33:59 by derisking or removing some of the risks through our guaranteed product.
01:34:02 So this has been quite important for us to expand our reach
01:34:06 into those segments of the population that need it most.
01:34:11 Just one last thing, though.
01:34:12 Financial resources are important,
01:34:14 but technical expertise and technical assistance is equally important.
01:34:18 You need to improve the capacity
01:34:19 both of the SMEs and of the financial intermediaries
01:34:23 in order to get the results that we all want.
01:34:27 Through our advisory services, we provide that type of support,
01:34:31 coupled with our financial investments to help support financial inclusion.
01:34:35 [Kathleen Hays] So interesting.
01:34:36 A lot of people in distressed, even poor areas give them some money,
01:34:40 give them some resources, and it's amazing what they can accomplish.
01:34:45 Now, Soukeyna, back to you.
01:34:46 I have a question by a group called Activist Women.
01:34:50 All right, you Activist Women.
01:34:52 Why do women always fall prey to fragility in times of crisis,
01:34:56 despite all the efforts and all the protest movement?
01:35:02 [Soukeyna Kane] Kathleen,
01:35:03 when we assume that woman living in peace and stability
01:35:10 are not vulnerable, what we realize is
01:35:13 in crisis, the vulnerability of women is only a magnifier
01:35:18 of what they live in peace and stability.
01:35:22 That's the first thing that I want to share.
01:35:25 The second is
01:35:27 we think that women are collateral damage of war.
01:35:34 At times, it's unfortunately
01:35:36 a deliberate and despicable tactic to target women.
01:35:43 We think that crises are gender neutral.
01:35:48 They're not.
01:35:49 A crisis like COVID will affect more girls than boys.
01:35:54 If you look at schooling, for instance,
01:35:57 you know that many girls will not go back to school,
01:36:00 even when schools will reopen.
01:36:04 That's why it's critical for our institutions
01:36:09 to be extremely deliberate.
01:36:12 That's what we're doing in our gender work.
01:36:17 We do it through the full spectrum as well of our intervention.
01:36:24 First the analytical work,
01:36:26 we try to better understand what is in a particular country,
01:36:33 the benefit of a more gender-inclusive society.
01:36:38 On the bright side, Kathleen,
01:36:40 we all know that when a society treats its women better,
01:36:46 that society thrives.
01:36:49 It's not only an issue of justice, social justice, it's good economics
01:36:56 to have a more gender equality, more economic opportunities for women.
01:37:03 It's absolutely fundamental in our work,
01:37:06 in particular in fragility, in fragile conflict affected states,
01:37:10 to put women at the center
01:37:15 because for peace and crisis prevention, women usually play a critical role.
01:37:23 [Kathleen Hays] Absolutely.
01:37:24 I hope the activist women enjoyed that answer.
01:37:27 I certainly did. I think you got right to the heart of it.
01:37:30 Aisha Tom, in Nigeria, "there's a serious problem of insecurity in Nigeria
01:37:35 that discourages foreign investors."
01:37:37 This has got to be a problem around the world.
01:37:39 The question is, "what plan do you have to support
01:37:42 the Nigerian government combat this situation?"
01:37:45 [Aisha William] Thanks. Another really excellent question.
01:37:48 Look, insecurity instability is an anathema for an investment.
01:37:54 Investors seek to crave stability in order to be able to deploy their funds.
01:38:00 Trying to address that is a critical challenge
01:38:03 that we face across the World Bank Group,
01:38:05 but particularly for IFC and for MIGA,
01:38:07 which are the elements of the World Bank Group
01:38:09 that focus on supporting private sector investment.
01:38:12 We do this in a number of ways.
01:38:14 First, it's important to recognize that there is a distinction sometimes
01:38:18 between the perception of insecurity and actual insecurity.
01:38:21 It's quite important to figure out, to get to the roots of that issue,
01:38:25 to figure out what is the challenge that we're trying to address.
01:38:28 MIGA, for example, the Multilateral Insurance Guarantee Association
01:38:33 provides insurance against non-commercial risks,
01:38:38 the perception of insecurity as well as actual insecurity,
01:38:43 and it provides financiers with that essentially insurance
01:38:46 against these non-commercial risks.
01:38:49 For example, the risk of expropriation of assets.
01:38:55 IFC addresses the issue of insecurity through a number of ways,
01:38:59 in particular through the use of derisking instruments
01:39:02 that we associate with our investments.
01:39:05 So while IFC can provide a financial investment alone to a company
01:39:10 in an emerging market in a crisis situation, additionally,
01:39:14 we provide blended finance or we add concessional financing
01:39:20 to our commercial financing to try and address
01:39:24 certain specific non-commercial risks
01:39:26 that may be associated with that particular investment.
01:39:31 Again, these are various tools that we use to try and get
01:39:35 to the root of those type of risks, those type of insecurity risks
01:39:40 that can really detract foreign investors
01:39:42 from feeling comfortable investing in the country.
01:39:44 [Kathleen Hays] Certainly, there's a lot of tools
01:39:46 and I'm sure there are many people in Nigeria
01:39:48 who already know about this and are using them.
01:39:51 But if they don't, you've helped spread the word today
01:39:53 and we appreciate it so much.
01:39:55 Soukeyna Kane, Aisha William thank you for taking the time
01:39:59 answering these questions.
01:40:00 Just a great way to top off a wonderful event today.
01:40:05 I want to thank all of our guests for joining us,
01:40:07 sharing in this important discussion.
01:40:10 I want to tell you about the great events still to come,
01:40:12 including just an hour so you can get up, walk around, make your lunch.
01:40:15 [COMING UP] [AVAILABLE FOR REPLAY]
01:40:17 The event on trade and development that's coming up,
01:40:21 Tomorrow, the focus turns to human capital and the importance of investing in people.
01:40:25 I think in a way we were just talking about this in our last discussion.
01:40:29 You can also watch back all the events earlier this week.
01:40:32 Maybe you were at work, you were taking the kids to school.
01:40:34 You can go back, you can see exactly what you want to see,
01:40:37 including discussion between the Bank and IMF leaders
01:40:41 on responding to global shocks.
01:40:43 The session on the potential of the digital revolution
01:40:45 for all you crypto folks out there,
01:40:47 as well as discussion around financing climate action.
01:40:51 That's all at live.worldbank.org and you can still share your comments
01:40:57 on these Spring Meetings using the hashtag #ResilientFuture.
01:41:00 I love that phrase.
01:41:02 So happy to join us today.
01:41:04 I want to thank this wonderful crew here.
01:41:06 They have been fantastic.
01:41:07 I want to thank the World Bank for inviting me to do this.
01:41:10 It's been such a wonderful opportunity
01:41:12 for me as a journalist to learn more meets some wonderful people.
01:41:16 I hope you've enjoyed it.
01:41:18 Thank you so much for watching. Goodbye for now.
01:41:29 [Fragility & Conflict]
01:41:31 [Climate Change]
01:41:34 [Food Insecurity]
01:41:38 [Spring Meetings 2022]
01:41:40 [Thanks for watching]
01:41:41 [Watch replays on live.worldbank.org]

Live chat with

Sara Batmanglich

Senior Operations Officer, Fragility, Conflict and Violence (FCV) Group, World Bank

For this Q&A, a great number of questions were submitted in advance. We asked the audience to help us select the questions that should be put to our experts. The star symbol ✮ indicates the most upvoted submissions.

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) Hello everyone, and welcome to On the Frontlines of Rising Fragility: Collaborating and Innovating for Impact. We'll start the event in a few minutes. Please stay tuned and submit your comments and questions using the field below.

You can join the conversation on social media using the hashtag #RisingFragility. This event will also be livestreamed on our World Bank social media channels.

Welcome everyone! I’m Justin Ticzon. I am here to moderate this chat and share the highlights of the event while Sara Batmanglich will try and answer as many of your questions as she can. Please tell us what brings you here today. Why are you interested in the topic at hand?

David Malpass, President of the World Bank Group, is sharing his opening remarks.

Coming next, we’ll hear from Prime Minister Maeen Abdulmalik Saeed of Yemen. He’ll talk about Yemen’s experience in tackling crises and what other countries can learn from it.

The first panel discussion will talk about how to support communities in the face of continued setbacks and compounding risks. It will feature some innovative partnerships between humanitarian-development-peace actors, as well as community-driven approaches that provide jobs and social safety nets, building long-term resilience.

Magayane Augustin In what way are you thinking of supporting the most fragile communities and how are you planning to identify them?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Hi Magayane, Bank diagnostics serve an important role in understanding some of the underlying fragilities in a given country, as well as identifying the most vulnerable communities. Once they have been identified we can then work through Bank programming to ensure they are targeted and receive tailored support.

✮ JORGE ELIECER ROA HERNANDEZ What role should communities play in conflict and violence mitigation?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @Jorge: The 2018 UN-World Bank Pathways for Peace study points to the importance of involving communities to build resilience, prevent conflict, and support recovery. Indeed, the study highlights the importance of shifting from seeing communities simply as “beneficiaries” to making them active partners in the development process. The data also shows that communities can help mitigate conflict and grievances that stem from exclusion and inequality by focusing on excluded groups like women, youth and migrants. As one example, the World Bank’s Community Driven Development programs have been effective in creating more inclusive and cohesive communities in conflict areas like the Horn of Africa and Solomon Islands by making them partners in delivery of critical services. This inclusive delivery approach is also taken in our projects tackling gender-based violence, particularly in DRC, where we are working to prevent violent conflict and interpersonal violence.

As evidenced by the discussion with the Prime Minister now, it's important that we learn from each crisis and continue to adapt our approaches from this global learning.

Minister Ndoba made a critical point that dialogue is often central to creating the conditions for more long-lasting peace.

✮ bonelmiyacoukanga What are the indicators of fragility and how should it be measured?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @bonelmiyacoukanga Fragility is not nearly as easily measured as other phenomena, and indicators alone tend to not give a full picture – therefore both quantitative and qualitative analytics are required to understand fragility’s full complexity. But there are certain key characteristics that often signpost deeper fragility – to name just a few of these, fractured or weak social contracts, low trust and accountability and other governance related challenges, and horizontal inequalities between groups, as well as other issues that engender grievances.

✮ Jean Marie What tools and resources are necessary for the sound management of fragility and conflict situations?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @Jean Marie: Sound management, needs consistent attention – we have to continue to update our analytics to ensure we are focusing on the right things and keeping aware of the dynamics as they rapidly change, we need to remain flexible and nimble to be able to adjust our engagement accordingly, and we also need patience. These are incredibly challenging issues and will take time to move the needle on. Remaining engaged and continuing to work with partners throughout is critically important.

DrSiMo Even in England it is a topic that has dominated my life. A constant background of conflict in Ireland where many of my ancestors lived. I had friends from Syria and Ukraine where conflict quite apparently unexpectedly ignited. In my youth some people I knew holidayed in opening up Yugoslavia. One of the most interesting consulting project I worked on was at UNHCR on their operational management IT where I first heard about Kosovo that exploded onto tv screens a few months later. The post doc projected I did at LSE turned out to be less industrial as I expected and more MOD, so conflict seems pervasive and its consequences so traumatic.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @DrSiMo One key message already from all speakers - partnership is essential to working on crises.

Sandeep Dixit Do we have analytics on failure analysis of past policies rolled out in existing nations under FCV category and new ones entering the group.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @Sandeep: Yes, learning from failures is just as (if not more!) important than learning from successes, and this reflection is a key component of monitoring and evaluation that takes place as part of programming.

I hope the panel will talk more about dealing with conflict itself & building peace - not just responding to consequences

Nic Hailey 4 days ago

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) Make sure to participate in the poll located further down the page. Kathleen & Sri will bring you the results at the end of this event.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank "Hope is the most powerful glue that sticks humanity together" incredibly inspiring words from Victor Ochen.

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) Our guests will discuss what we have learned about the needs of refugees, the challenges faced by host countries, and some progressive efforts at integrating refugees.

Sara Batmanglich is continuing to answer your questions in real-time in this chat. Thank you, Sara!

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank "The key lesson is that pure humanitarian responses are inadequate". Again, this points to the primacy of partnerships with governments, development actors, with private sector and with local civil society to be able to deliver to refugees and host communities.

✮ Patricia Takouma BANDO MONGOHINA How does the World Bank manage or address social situations in conflict zones and in areas or countries that host refugees?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @Patricia: Being aware of social dynamics and how these could potentially be negatively impacted by a crisis and/or an intervention of the international community, is an essential feature of the “do no harm” principle that the Bank takes very seriously. In refugee hosting areas, ensuring that the needs of host communities are also addressed, in addition to those of refugees, and that all groups receive access to services being provided – is very important.

Ismaila A. Hassan We need to tackle the immediate drivers of these multiple fragility we are having around, and we can do it if we put our heads together.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Agreed, Ismaila - indeed we can ONLY do it if we work together.

sasaemmaj World Bank should invest in agriculture, health, education so that people in global could have enough food to eat.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Huge productive potential of refugees - that can be maximized and capitalized on to the benefits of everyone.

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) This last conversation will focus on the role of the private sector in sustaining economic activity in the context of prolonged fragility or conflict.

Eugene Rhuggenaath (Curacao) Should we consider people displacement and migration as a 'new normal'? If so, how are we as international community prepared to manage this?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Forced displacement is different than migration that people undertake for a variety of reasons. Both will need different responses. That said, Eugene, I agree with you that we probably should consider both of these phenomena as the ‘new normal” and we need to prepare accordingly. As we have heard from the last panel, we have learned a lot about how to respond and support both the forcibly displaced as well as those who migrate, but there is much more work to be done and we need to continue to update our policies, programs and approaches to keep pace with this “new normal”.

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) Last chance to answer the poll below before we go to Kathleen and Sri with the results.

GILLIAN DARE Fragility in most countries is not the same for everyone. Pockets of minority communities(often overlooked), gender, women & children, young people and the very old and disabled are often the most vulnerable. Large scale programmes do not adequately reflect this leaving many people out. What more can be done to consult with these groups about the challenges they are facing and how best theycan be helped to overcome them?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank This is an excellent point, Gillian. This is why taking a differentiated approach is essential – beyond just being a fancy word, what that means is going the extra mile, through our diagnostics, through consultations, to identify what the needs are of different groups and not just assume that everyone has the same vulnerability or experiences the same challenges. In order to do this, we work hard to try to disaggregate data wherever possible, and consultations with different stakeholders are also highly valued and are a key component of our analytics and our operations.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Ms. Nazzal-Batayneh makes an excellent point that investors also need to change their mindset, and that targets on gender, refugee, and disability inclusion can be added.

AKINRADEWO A.M.OROBOLA Thank you WBG and staff, for bringing us together

How can WBG partner with other smaller NGOs that were directly connected with the grassroots or local communities? Also, how can private partners impact and be intensively included in bringing changes to the economy, reducing extreme poverty and building better communities? As we know New technology and Innovation can improve business, Education, Improve the Economy and add to a resilient future, how can this apply in conflict and fragile countries? where resources are limited, and what can we do to achieve inclusion and build stronger?

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank @Akinradewo: The issues you raised in your question point to the need for multidimensional and comprehensive responses to fragility and poverty reduction, that include partnership with grassroots organizations, local communities as part of the solution, as well as the private sector, technology, and quality education of course being an essential foundation to all of the above.

Sara Batmanglich/World Bank Ms. Kane making a critical point that crises do not affect men, women, girls and boys the same way and that we must work to understand these different impacts, as well as to focus on inclusion in all our programming.

Justin Ticzon (Moderator) That concludes the discussion. Thank you to all who tuned in! The recording of the event should be available momentarily on this page. For more information about our work on fragility, conflict, violence, and forced displacement, visit:
www.worldbank.org and www.ifc.org.

Podcast

Listen to the 25-min summary

Use the timestamps to browse the main sections of the podcast.

[00:00] Welcome
[02:38] Tanzania's education system
[05:13] Tanzania's investment in health
[08:28] Tanzania: Challenges in education and health
[13:35] Tackling learning poverty
[17:36] Special considerations from a gender and fragility context
[19:07] Impacts of the pandemic on young people
[23:50] The value of investing in people
[28:10] Equipping young people for the jobs of the future
[29:32] Closure

About the Spring Meetings 2022

The Spring Meetings bring together leaders from government, business, international organizations, and civil society, along with a diverse group of experts, to discuss global challenges and the path ahead. Watch the replay of our events dedicated to international development.

Apr. 12: Addressing Challenges
Apr. 19: Responding to Global Shocks
Apr. 20: Opening Press Conference
Apr. 20: The Digital Revolution
Apr. 21: Financing Climate Action
Apr. 21: Support to Ukraine
Apr. 22: Fragility
Apr. 22: Preserving Open Trade
Apr. 23: Human Capital

Available with simultaneous interpretation in Arabic, French and Spanish.

Speakers

David R. Malpass

Former President, World Bank Group
@DavidMalpassWBG
Maeen Abdulmalik Saeed

Prime Minister, Yemen
@DrMaeenSaeed
Axel van Trotsenburg

Senior Managing Director, World Bank
@AxelVT_WB
Catherine Russell

Executive Director, UNICEF
@unicefchief
Svenja Schulze

Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development, Germany
@SvenjaSchulze68
Hervé Ndoba

Minister of Finance and Budget, Central African Republic
Raouf Mazou

Assistant High Commissioner for Refugees (Operations), UNHCR
@RaoufMazou
Alejandra Botero Barco

Manager, Planning and Impact Development, CAF-Latin American Development Bank
@aleboterob
Ion Gumene

State Secretary, Ministry of Finance, Moldova
Makhtar Diop

Managing Director, IFC
@Diop_IFC
Donald Kaberuka

Chairman and Managing Partner, SouthBridge
@DonaldKaberuka
Mary Nazzal-Batayneh

Founder of Landmark Hotels & 17 Ventures
@MaryNazzal
Victor Ochen

Founder and Executive Director, African Youth Initiative Network (AYINET)
@Victor_OCHEN
Soukeyna Kane

Director, Fragility, Conflict and Violence Group, World Bank
@soukeyna_kane
Aisha Williams

Director for Blended Finance and Corporate Strategy, IFC

Moderator

Kathleen Hays

Founder and Editor in Chief for Central Bank Central
@Kathleen_Hays

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