Read the transcript
- 00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
- 00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting
- 00:17 just about every aspect of global development, as well as the solutions that the international
- 00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that today by looking at how digital development is
- 00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From communications to remote working technologies,
- 00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to distance learning, these are just a few of the
- 00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning the response to this unprecedented crisis. As
- 00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to digital services will be critical. That is the
- 00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David Malpass shared on this program just last month.
- 00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries
- 00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,
- 01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the
- 01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make progress on advancing the digital services that
- 01:21 people have available so they can get access to information. That's a starting point for farmers
- 01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills. One of the big things that people can do now,
- 01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills learning at the basic level so that people are
- 01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something that we're making available programs that will
- 01:50 help people get access to education or to skills that will help them when there's a recovery.
- 01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of
- 02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting some of the worst effects that could have been
- 02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for them, others are being left behind. Lacking or
- 02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves lives, sustains education and promotes business
- 02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide and what it means for countries as they respond to
- 02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and what can be done to support digital inclusion,
- 02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the World Bank's director for digital development,
- 02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live.
- 02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul.
- 02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I
- 02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is playing a role in the pandemic response so far,
- 02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction, there are some obvious ways that come to mind like
- 02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot of businesses and schools to continue operating,
- 02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that connectivity has just been critical in responding
- 03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here, can you give me a sense of the scope in which
- 03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the many things that this call was called since
- 03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the sector that came to the rescue. It was called
- 03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time
- 03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the social distancing, with the fact that people had
- 03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the only way for business continuity was for people
- 03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world where, if you are connected, if you have a good
- 03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware and software, then, there was a possibility for
- 04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote
- 04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury of having connection, who were able to continue
- 04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have
- 04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling. Schooling is a very important element. We know
- 04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response
- 04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure that kids go to school. The health sector,
- 04:57 of course. The health sector is really a sector where connectivity has been very
- 05:03 important and digital solutions have been very important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,
- 05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine, we have examples of countries that we're able to
- 05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of data and big data and artificial intelligence to
- 05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic and how to contain it. Of course, all of this
- 05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and due respect for the personal data that is there.
- 05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the issues about how do we help citizens that need
- 05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,
- 06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of social protection support given through digital
- 06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we look at it, what this crisis really showed is that
- 06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of transformation and digital transformation. We've
- 06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to use technology because they don't know how to use
- 06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in case they have the connection and in case they
- 06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake]
- 06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital technology is really underpinning, whether it's
- 06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines, whether it business, whether it's education, it's
- 06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being
- 07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,
- 07:10 none of those technologies were available back then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking
- 07:14 about today were not available back then. As large swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over
- 07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure
- 07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming into people's homes. Could you talk a little
- 07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and the conversations that you have with government
- 07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how providers, be the Internet companies or other,
- 07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has happened at multiple levels. On voice,
- 07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled, and we do know that many countries today-
- 07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls.
- 07:57 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries
- 08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very nice discussion with a number of countries
- 08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan that really showed that the voice pressure in
- 08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,
- 08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic
- 08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased
- 08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing, video conferences, streaming. In the different
- 08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear need that the operators needed to create more
- 08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,
- 09:03 an incredible response from both governments and from the private sector to respond very quickly to
- 09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake]
- 09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so
- 09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take
- 09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome
- 09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. Today, we're looking at digital development
- 09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus response as well as how the digital divide between
- 09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet technologies and those who do not have that
- 09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning
- 09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai, Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj
- 09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around the world. Thank you so much for joining us.
- 09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the World Bank's director for digital development.
- 10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,
- 10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the break, we were talking about the increased demand
- 10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,
- 10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing. A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,
- 10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked response to help meet some of that demand. Can
- 10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide between countries and places where people have
- 10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they don't? Help me and those watching understand
- 10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where are we talking about? What countries and regions
- 10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity and what are some of maybe the common factors
- 10:51 between countries and regions that struggle to provide ready and able Internet access?
- 10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.
- 11:00 I think one of the major learnings from this crisis is that this digital divide,
- 11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all know that we need to find a way to bridge it,
- 11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted like no other time before is, if you don't
- 11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal, then there is the risk of deeper inequalities
- 11:26 between countries and within countries. If we want to talk about the global digital divide,
- 11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world who do not have access to broadband connectivity.
- 11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we reached a very important milestone last year with
- 11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took 50 years for the world to reach that milestone,
- 11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the coin and look at the other side, it means we have
- 12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from what we are discussing now about digital having
- 12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline
- 12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is
- 12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries
- 12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single
- 12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile
- 13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're
- 13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately, many countries in the world still do not have it.
- 13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts
- 13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an email out to folks back home was really difficult,
- 13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're having today. For the World Bank's Development
- 13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,
- 13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez. They're two women, they're quite good friends.
- 13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really
- 13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that digital divide we're talking about this morning.
- 13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for their children's education, because in Colombia,
- 13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have been shut and many of the children have come home.
- 14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia.
- 14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The
- 14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working, they're studying private schools. So I think
- 14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in public schools, because we have full internet,
- 14:23 they have access to virtual classes through Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.
- 14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So they have been receiving their classes by these
- 14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do after class, which has been quite easy for them
- 14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I said before, I have all the internet connections.
- 14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are
- 14:50 your kids continuing their education while they're not able to physically attend school?
- 14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.
- 14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's very bad. In order to study, they're sending
- 15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before, the internet connection is really bad. And the
- 15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies to the school and they have to pick it up,
- 15:12 but it's far away from where they live. So sometimes it's difficult for them to
- 15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're managing right now, their virtual classes.
- 15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was
- 15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate their kids while living on opposite sides of that
- 15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the past few minutes. As schools have locked down,
- 15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where the digital divide is really creating haves and
- 15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different dimensions of this digital divide within
- 15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for example, in the US with very good connectivity
- 15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and rural and there is a thinking to make sure
- 15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity to make sure no one is left behind. The other
- 16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very important to highlight is the gender digital
- 16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million women, fewer women than men, have access,
- 16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity. We know that 33% less women than men know what
- 16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not
- 16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital divide, we think about the rural urban divide,
- 16:43 we need to think about the gender divide. We need to think about those who have
- 16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the technology offers and those who don't. In the-
- 16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it
- 17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say.
- 17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.
- 17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another part that shows up and it's really complicated.
- 17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I
- 17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,
- 17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was
- 17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,
- 17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking about skills. Can you talk a little bit about
- 17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,
- 17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector operators need to think about solutions within the
- 17:51 technology space, and there are many out there that cater to the needs of the disabled people.
- 17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity for you to know what's out there on the Internet,
- 18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see, a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who
- 18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't need to read it to be taking advantage of the
- 18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions, and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond
- 18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital divide has also a very important dimension about
- 18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake]
- 18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here, Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome
- 18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the
- 18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on the line. She's talking us through how the digital
- 18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19 and the plans and the preparation for the recovery
- 18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the digital divide being the difference between people
- 19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband Internet technologies and those who don't.
- 19:11 We see people joining from across the world, this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,
- 19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you
- 19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We really appreciate you being with us this morning.
- 19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just as we start to wind this program down, let's talk
- 19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the problems we've been talking about this morning.
- 19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group doing to try and bridge the digital divide that
- 19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds?
- 19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where
- 19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact
- 20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband connectivity is very different from voice.
- 20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking very closely at policy and regulatory environment
- 20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed to improve connectivity. It starts by getting
- 20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us, I think, connectivity is very important, but it
- 20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity. I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular
- 20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we
- 20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,
- 20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a very good exercise under the broadband commission
- 20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars
- 20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,
- 21:08 we need very close collaboration with private sector, with partners. I think
- 21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly the importance of a collaborative approach.
- 21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as
- 21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about this before this program, but help us understand
- 21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that access, it requires that capital, it requires that
- 21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit
- 21:43 more about that? Why identification is important and how it's being improved around the world?
- 21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital
- 21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life is moving to the online world. Being recognized
- 22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important. Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they
- 22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in Africa and many other parts of the world. Having
- 22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very important to also take advantage of the services.
- 22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the
- 22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,
- 22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are
- 22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a mindset that we need to have to think about using
- 22:52 technology for development and it starts with the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,
- 22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform, it needs this vision of the importance for
- 23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it, then, digital can become a source for deeper
- 23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank, we are really thinking along those lines and
- 23:16 we are working with many partners to have this ecosystem approach for digital connectivity.
- 23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger
- 23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes, the wires, to connect people to the Internet,
- 23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach that requires a lot of different aspects. Just
- 23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you, the World Bank believes digital development will
- 23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery from the pandemic that we're going through
- 23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this program last month, he made the case for that,
- 23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do you think that the pandemic we're living in right
- 23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity around the world? Is it underlying the need to
- 24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver linings for the difficult times that we are
- 24:12 going through is that it really brought to the fore the importance of being connected to cope
- 24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of
- 24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber security or not having very robust systems
- 24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital economy. It is an opportunity. People say,
- 24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things right, in a way. I think it really brought
- 24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining all this sector that can rebuild better with
- 24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is
- 25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual way. It requires thinking outside of the box.
- 25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much
- 25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake]
- 25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director for digital development. She joined us from her
- 25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a quick programming note for those who tune in
- 25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll start looking in earnest at the challenges and
- 25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents. We're looking at the big topics with some of
- 25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the international development community. We're kicking
- 25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a special program on food security. You can find the
- 25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.
- 25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.
- 25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and make each one better and better. In the meantime,
- 25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,
- 26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You can all also listen to the complete interview
- 26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in this program. Just search for the World
- 26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.
- 26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.
Coronavirus Live Series: Bridging the Digital Divide
Follow the event on Twitter #COVID19
The internet has been vital in connecting us to friends, family, work and school during #COVID19, but the poorest countries and people are being left behind. What can we do to support digital inclusion? Our @BoutheinaGuerm1, Director of Digital Development, shares some ideas.
Speaker
Host
Read the transcript
- 00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
- 00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting
- 00:17 just about every aspect of global development, as well as the solutions that the international
- 00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that today by looking at how digital development is
- 00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From communications to remote working technologies,
- 00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to distance learning, these are just a few of the
- 00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning the response to this unprecedented crisis. As
- 00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to digital services will be critical. That is the
- 00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David Malpass shared on this program just last month.
- 00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries
- 00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,
- 01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the
- 01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make progress on advancing the digital services that
- 01:21 people have available so they can get access to information. That's a starting point for farmers
- 01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills. One of the big things that people can do now,
- 01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills learning at the basic level so that people are
- 01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something that we're making available programs that will
- 01:50 help people get access to education or to skills that will help them when there's a recovery.
- 01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of
- 02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting some of the worst effects that could have been
- 02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for them, others are being left behind. Lacking or
- 02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves lives, sustains education and promotes business
- 02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide and what it means for countries as they respond to
- 02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and what can be done to support digital inclusion,
- 02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the World Bank's director for digital development,
- 02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live.
- 02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul.
- 02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I
- 02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is playing a role in the pandemic response so far,
- 02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction, there are some obvious ways that come to mind like
- 02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot of businesses and schools to continue operating,
- 02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that connectivity has just been critical in responding
- 03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here, can you give me a sense of the scope in which
- 03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the many things that this call was called since
- 03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the sector that came to the rescue. It was called
- 03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time
- 03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the social distancing, with the fact that people had
- 03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the only way for business continuity was for people
- 03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world where, if you are connected, if you have a good
- 03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware and software, then, there was a possibility for
- 04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote
- 04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury of having connection, who were able to continue
- 04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have
- 04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling. Schooling is a very important element. We know
- 04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response
- 04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure that kids go to school. The health sector,
- 04:57 of course. The health sector is really a sector where connectivity has been very
- 05:03 important and digital solutions have been very important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,
- 05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine, we have examples of countries that we're able to
- 05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of data and big data and artificial intelligence to
- 05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic and how to contain it. Of course, all of this
- 05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and due respect for the personal data that is there.
- 05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the issues about how do we help citizens that need
- 05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,
- 06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of social protection support given through digital
- 06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we look at it, what this crisis really showed is that
- 06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of transformation and digital transformation. We've
- 06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to use technology because they don't know how to use
- 06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in case they have the connection and in case they
- 06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake]
- 06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital technology is really underpinning, whether it's
- 06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines, whether it business, whether it's education, it's
- 06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being
- 07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,
- 07:10 none of those technologies were available back then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking
- 07:14 about today were not available back then. As large swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over
- 07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure
- 07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming into people's homes. Could you talk a little
- 07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and the conversations that you have with government
- 07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how providers, be the Internet companies or other,
- 07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has happened at multiple levels. On voice,
- 07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled, and we do know that many countries today-
- 07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls.
- 07:57 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries
- 08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very nice discussion with a number of countries
- 08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan that really showed that the voice pressure in
- 08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,
- 08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic
- 08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased
- 08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing, video conferences, streaming. In the different
- 08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear need that the operators needed to create more
- 08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,
- 09:03 an incredible response from both governments and from the private sector to respond very quickly to
- 09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake]
- 09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so
- 09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take
- 09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome
- 09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. Today, we're looking at digital development
- 09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus response as well as how the digital divide between
- 09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet technologies and those who do not have that
- 09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning
- 09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai, Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj
- 09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around the world. Thank you so much for joining us.
- 09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the World Bank's director for digital development.
- 10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,
- 10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the break, we were talking about the increased demand
- 10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,
- 10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing. A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,
- 10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked response to help meet some of that demand. Can
- 10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide between countries and places where people have
- 10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they don't? Help me and those watching understand
- 10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where are we talking about? What countries and regions
- 10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity and what are some of maybe the common factors
- 10:51 between countries and regions that struggle to provide ready and able Internet access?
- 10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.
- 11:00 I think one of the major learnings from this crisis is that this digital divide,
- 11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all know that we need to find a way to bridge it,
- 11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted like no other time before is, if you don't
- 11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal, then there is the risk of deeper inequalities
- 11:26 between countries and within countries. If we want to talk about the global digital divide,
- 11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world who do not have access to broadband connectivity.
- 11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we reached a very important milestone last year with
- 11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took 50 years for the world to reach that milestone,
- 11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the coin and look at the other side, it means we have
- 12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from what we are discussing now about digital having
- 12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline
- 12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is
- 12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries
- 12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single
- 12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile
- 13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're
- 13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately, many countries in the world still do not have it.
- 13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts
- 13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an email out to folks back home was really difficult,
- 13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're having today. For the World Bank's Development
- 13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,
- 13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez. They're two women, they're quite good friends.
- 13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really
- 13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that digital divide we're talking about this morning.
- 13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for their children's education, because in Colombia,
- 13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have been shut and many of the children have come home.
- 14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia.
- 14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The
- 14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working, they're studying private schools. So I think
- 14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in public schools, because we have full internet,
- 14:23 they have access to virtual classes through Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.
- 14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So they have been receiving their classes by these
- 14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do after class, which has been quite easy for them
- 14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I said before, I have all the internet connections.
- 14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are
- 14:50 your kids continuing their education while they're not able to physically attend school?
- 14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.
- 14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's very bad. In order to study, they're sending
- 15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before, the internet connection is really bad. And the
- 15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies to the school and they have to pick it up,
- 15:12 but it's far away from where they live. So sometimes it's difficult for them to
- 15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're managing right now, their virtual classes.
- 15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was
- 15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate their kids while living on opposite sides of that
- 15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the past few minutes. As schools have locked down,
- 15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where the digital divide is really creating haves and
- 15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different dimensions of this digital divide within
- 15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for example, in the US with very good connectivity
- 15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and rural and there is a thinking to make sure
- 15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity to make sure no one is left behind. The other
- 16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very important to highlight is the gender digital
- 16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million women, fewer women than men, have access,
- 16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity. We know that 33% less women than men know what
- 16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not
- 16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital divide, we think about the rural urban divide,
- 16:43 we need to think about the gender divide. We need to think about those who have
- 16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the technology offers and those who don't. In the-
- 16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it
- 17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say.
- 17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.
- 17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another part that shows up and it's really complicated.
- 17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I
- 17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,
- 17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was
- 17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,
- 17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking about skills. Can you talk a little bit about
- 17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,
- 17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector operators need to think about solutions within the
- 17:51 technology space, and there are many out there that cater to the needs of the disabled people.
- 17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity for you to know what's out there on the Internet,
- 18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see, a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who
- 18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't need to read it to be taking advantage of the
- 18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions, and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond
- 18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital divide has also a very important dimension about
- 18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake]
- 18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here, Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome
- 18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the
- 18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on the line. She's talking us through how the digital
- 18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19 and the plans and the preparation for the recovery
- 18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the digital divide being the difference between people
- 19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband Internet technologies and those who don't.
- 19:11 We see people joining from across the world, this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,
- 19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you
- 19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We really appreciate you being with us this morning.
- 19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just as we start to wind this program down, let's talk
- 19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the problems we've been talking about this morning.
- 19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group doing to try and bridge the digital divide that
- 19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds?
- 19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where
- 19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact
- 20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband connectivity is very different from voice.
- 20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking very closely at policy and regulatory environment
- 20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed to improve connectivity. It starts by getting
- 20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us, I think, connectivity is very important, but it
- 20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity. I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular
- 20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we
- 20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,
- 20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a very good exercise under the broadband commission
- 20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars
- 20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,
- 21:08 we need very close collaboration with private sector, with partners. I think
- 21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly the importance of a collaborative approach.
- 21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as
- 21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about this before this program, but help us understand
- 21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that access, it requires that capital, it requires that
- 21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit
- 21:43 more about that? Why identification is important and how it's being improved around the world?
- 21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital
- 21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life is moving to the online world. Being recognized
- 22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important. Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they
- 22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in Africa and many other parts of the world. Having
- 22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very important to also take advantage of the services.
- 22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the
- 22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,
- 22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are
- 22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a mindset that we need to have to think about using
- 22:52 technology for development and it starts with the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,
- 22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform, it needs this vision of the importance for
- 23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it, then, digital can become a source for deeper
- 23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank, we are really thinking along those lines and
- 23:16 we are working with many partners to have this ecosystem approach for digital connectivity.
- 23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger
- 23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes, the wires, to connect people to the Internet,
- 23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach that requires a lot of different aspects. Just
- 23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you, the World Bank believes digital development will
- 23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery from the pandemic that we're going through
- 23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this program last month, he made the case for that,
- 23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do you think that the pandemic we're living in right
- 23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity around the world? Is it underlying the need to
- 24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver linings for the difficult times that we are
- 24:12 going through is that it really brought to the fore the importance of being connected to cope
- 24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of
- 24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber security or not having very robust systems
- 24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital economy. It is an opportunity. People say,
- 24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things right, in a way. I think it really brought
- 24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining all this sector that can rebuild better with
- 24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is
- 25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual way. It requires thinking outside of the box.
- 25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much
- 25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi]
- 25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake]
- 25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director for digital development. She joined us from her
- 25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a quick programming note for those who tune in
- 25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll start looking in earnest at the challenges and
- 25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents. We're looking at the big topics with some of
- 25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the international development community. We're kicking
- 25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a special program on food security. You can find the
- 25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.
- 25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.
- 25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and make each one better and better. In the meantime,
- 25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,
- 26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You can all also listen to the complete interview
- 26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in this program. Just search for the World
- 26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.
- 26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.
