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This event took place on June 09, 2020

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00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting
00:17 just about every aspect of global development, as well as the solutions that the international
00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that today by looking at how digital development is
00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From communications to remote working technologies,
00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to distance learning, these are just a few of the
00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning the response to this unprecedented crisis. As
00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to digital services will be critical. That is the
00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David Malpass shared on this program just last month.
00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries
00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,
01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the
01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make progress on advancing the digital services that
01:21 people have available so they can get access to information. That's a starting point for farmers
01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills. One of the big things that people can do now,
01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills learning at the basic level so that people are
01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something that we're making available programs that will
01:50 help people get access to education or to skills that will help them when there's a recovery.
01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of
02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting some of the worst effects that could have been
02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for them, others are being left behind. Lacking or
02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves lives, sustains education and promotes business
02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide and what it means for countries as they respond to
02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and what can be done to support digital inclusion,
02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the World Bank's director for digital development,
02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live.
02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul.
02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I
02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is playing a role in the pandemic response so far,
02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction, there are some obvious ways that come to mind like
02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot of businesses and schools to continue operating,
02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that connectivity has just been critical in responding
03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here, can you give me a sense of the scope in which
03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi]
03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the many things that this call was called since
03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the sector that came to the rescue. It was called
03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time
03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the social distancing, with the fact that people had
03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the only way for business continuity was for people
03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world where, if you are connected, if you have a good
03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware and software, then, there was a possibility for
04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote
04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury of having connection, who were able to continue
04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have
04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling. Schooling is a very important element. We know
04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response
04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure that kids go to school. The health sector,
04:57 of course. The health sector is really a sector where connectivity has been very
05:03 important and digital solutions have been very important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,
05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine, we have examples of countries that we're able to
05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of data and big data and artificial intelligence to
05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic and how to contain it. Of course, all of this
05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and due respect for the personal data that is there.
05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the issues about how do we help citizens that need
05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,
06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of social protection support given through digital
06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we look at it, what this crisis really showed is that
06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of transformation and digital transformation. We've
06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to use technology because they don't know how to use
06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in case they have the connection and in case they
06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake]
06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital technology is really underpinning, whether it's
06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines, whether it business, whether it's education, it's
06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being
07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,
07:10 none of those technologies were available back then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking
07:14 about today were not available back then. As large swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over
07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure
07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming into people's homes. Could you talk a little
07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and the conversations that you have with government
07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how providers, be the Internet companies or other,
07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi]
07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has happened at multiple levels. On voice,
07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled, and we do know that many countries today-
07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls.
07:57 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries
08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very nice discussion with a number of countries
08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan that really showed that the voice pressure in
08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,
08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic
08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased
08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing, video conferences, streaming. In the different
08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear need that the operators needed to create more
08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,
09:03 an incredible response from both governments and from the private sector to respond very quickly to
09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake]
09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so
09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take
09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome
09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. Today, we're looking at digital development
09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus response as well as how the digital divide between
09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet technologies and those who do not have that
09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning
09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai, Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj
09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around the world. Thank you so much for joining us.
09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the World Bank's director for digital development.
10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,
10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the break, we were talking about the increased demand
10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,
10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing. A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,
10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked response to help meet some of that demand. Can
10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide between countries and places where people have
10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they don't? Help me and those watching understand
10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where are we talking about? What countries and regions
10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity and what are some of maybe the common factors
10:51 between countries and regions that struggle to provide ready and able Internet access?
10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.
11:00 I think one of the major learnings from this crisis is that this digital divide,
11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all know that we need to find a way to bridge it,
11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted like no other time before is, if you don't
11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal, then there is the risk of deeper inequalities
11:26 between countries and within countries. If we want to talk about the global digital divide,
11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world who do not have access to broadband connectivity.
11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we reached a very important milestone last year with
11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took 50 years for the world to reach that milestone,
11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the coin and look at the other side, it means we have
12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from what we are discussing now about digital having
12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline
12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is
12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries
12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single
12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile
13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're
13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately, many countries in the world still do not have it.
13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts
13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an email out to folks back home was really difficult,
13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're having today. For the World Bank's Development
13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,
13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez. They're two women, they're quite good friends.
13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really
13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that digital divide we're talking about this morning.
13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for their children's education, because in Colombia,
13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have been shut and many of the children have come home.
14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia.
14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The
14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working, they're studying private schools. So I think
14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in public schools, because we have full internet,
14:23 they have access to virtual classes through Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.
14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So they have been receiving their classes by these
14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do after class, which has been quite easy for them
14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I said before, I have all the internet connections.
14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are
14:50 your kids continuing their education while they're not able to physically attend school?
14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.
14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's very bad. In order to study, they're sending
15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before, the internet connection is really bad. And the
15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies to the school and they have to pick it up,
15:12 but it's far away from where they live. So sometimes it's difficult for them to
15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're managing right now, their virtual classes.
15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was
15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate their kids while living on opposite sides of that
15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the past few minutes. As schools have locked down,
15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where the digital divide is really creating haves and
15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi]
15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different dimensions of this digital divide within
15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for example, in the US with very good connectivity
15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and rural and there is a thinking to make sure
15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity to make sure no one is left behind. The other
16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very important to highlight is the gender digital
16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million women, fewer women than men, have access,
16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity. We know that 33% less women than men know what
16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not
16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital divide, we think about the rural urban divide,
16:43 we need to think about the gender divide. We need to think about those who have
16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the technology offers and those who don't. In the-
16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it
17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say.
17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.
17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another part that shows up and it's really complicated.
17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I
17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,
17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was
17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,
17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking about skills. Can you talk a little bit about
17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,
17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi]
17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector operators need to think about solutions within the
17:51 technology space, and there are many out there that cater to the needs of the disabled people.
17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity for you to know what's out there on the Internet,
18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see, a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who
18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't need to read it to be taking advantage of the
18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions, and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond
18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital divide has also a very important dimension about
18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake]
18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here, Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome
18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the
18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on the line. She's talking us through how the digital
18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19 and the plans and the preparation for the recovery
18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the digital divide being the difference between people
19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband Internet technologies and those who don't.
19:11 We see people joining from across the world, this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,
19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you
19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We really appreciate you being with us this morning.
19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just as we start to wind this program down, let's talk
19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the problems we've been talking about this morning.
19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group doing to try and bridge the digital divide that
19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds?
19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where
19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact
20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband connectivity is very different from voice.
20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking very closely at policy and regulatory environment
20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed to improve connectivity. It starts by getting
20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us, I think, connectivity is very important, but it
20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity. I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular
20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we
20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,
20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a very good exercise under the broadband commission
20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars
20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,
21:08 we need very close collaboration with private sector, with partners. I think
21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly the importance of a collaborative approach.
21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as
21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about this before this program, but help us understand
21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that access, it requires that capital, it requires that
21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit
21:43 more about that? Why identification is important and how it's being improved around the world?
21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital
21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life is moving to the online world. Being recognized
22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important. Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they
22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in Africa and many other parts of the world. Having
22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very important to also take advantage of the services.
22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the
22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,
22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are
22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a mindset that we need to have to think about using
22:52 technology for development and it starts with the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,
22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform, it needs this vision of the importance for
23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it, then, digital can become a source for deeper
23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank, we are really thinking along those lines and
23:16 we are working with many partners to have this ecosystem approach for digital connectivity.
23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger
23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes, the wires, to connect people to the Internet,
23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach that requires a lot of different aspects. Just
23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you, the World Bank believes digital development will
23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery from the pandemic that we're going through
23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this program last month, he made the case for that,
23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do you think that the pandemic we're living in right
23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity around the world? Is it underlying the need to
24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi]
24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver linings for the difficult times that we are
24:12 going through is that it really brought to the fore the importance of being connected to cope
24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of
24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber security or not having very robust systems
24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital economy. It is an opportunity. People say,
24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things right, in a way. I think it really brought
24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining all this sector that can rebuild better with
24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is
25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual way. It requires thinking outside of the box.
25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much
25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi]
25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake]
25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director for digital development. She joined us from her
25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a quick programming note for those who tune in
25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll start looking in earnest at the challenges and
25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents. We're looking at the big topics with some of
25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the international development community. We're kicking
25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a special program on food security. You can find the
25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.
25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.
25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and make each one better and better. In the meantime,
25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,
26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You can all also listen to the complete interview
26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in this program. Just search for the World
26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.
26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.

Coronavirus Live Series: Bridging the Digital Divide

Follow the event on Twitter #COVID19

The internet has been vital in connecting us to friends, family, work and school during #COVID19, but the poorest countries and people are being left behind. What can we do to support digital inclusion? Our @BoutheinaGuerm1, Director of Digital Development, shares some ideas.

Speaker

Boutheina Guermazi

World Bank’s Director of Digital Development (DD)
@BoutheinaGuerm1

Host

Paul Blake

External Affairs Officer, World Bank Group
@PaulNBlake

Read the transcript

00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting
00:17 just about every aspect of global development, as well as the solutions that the international
00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that today by looking at how digital development is
00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From communications to remote working technologies,
00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to distance learning, these are just a few of the
00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning the response to this unprecedented crisis. As
00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to digital services will be critical. That is the
00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David Malpass shared on this program just last month.
00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries
00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,
01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the
01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make progress on advancing the digital services that
01:21 people have available so they can get access to information. That's a starting point for farmers
01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills. One of the big things that people can do now,
01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills learning at the basic level so that people are
01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something that we're making available programs that will
01:50 help people get access to education or to skills that will help them when there's a recovery.
01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of
02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting some of the worst effects that could have been
02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for them, others are being left behind. Lacking or
02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves lives, sustains education and promotes business
02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide and what it means for countries as they respond to
02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and what can be done to support digital inclusion,
02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the World Bank's director for digital development,
02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live.
02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul.
02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I
02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is playing a role in the pandemic response so far,
02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction, there are some obvious ways that come to mind like
02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot of businesses and schools to continue operating,
02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that connectivity has just been critical in responding
03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here, can you give me a sense of the scope in which
03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi]
03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the many things that this call was called since
03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the sector that came to the rescue. It was called
03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time
03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the social distancing, with the fact that people had
03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the only way for business continuity was for people
03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world where, if you are connected, if you have a good
03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware and software, then, there was a possibility for
04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote
04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury of having connection, who were able to continue
04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have
04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling. Schooling is a very important element. We know
04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response
04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure that kids go to school. The health sector,
04:57 of course. The health sector is really a sector where connectivity has been very
05:03 important and digital solutions have been very important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,
05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine, we have examples of countries that we're able to
05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of data and big data and artificial intelligence to
05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic and how to contain it. Of course, all of this
05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and due respect for the personal data that is there.
05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the issues about how do we help citizens that need
05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,
06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of social protection support given through digital
06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we look at it, what this crisis really showed is that
06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of transformation and digital transformation. We've
06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to use technology because they don't know how to use
06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in case they have the connection and in case they
06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake]
06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital technology is really underpinning, whether it's
06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines, whether it business, whether it's education, it's
06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being
07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,
07:10 none of those technologies were available back then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking
07:14 about today were not available back then. As large swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over
07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure
07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming into people's homes. Could you talk a little
07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and the conversations that you have with government
07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how providers, be the Internet companies or other,
07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi]
07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has happened at multiple levels. On voice,
07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled, and we do know that many countries today-
07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls.
07:57 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries
08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very nice discussion with a number of countries
08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan that really showed that the voice pressure in
08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,
08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic
08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased
08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing, video conferences, streaming. In the different
08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear need that the operators needed to create more
08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,
09:03 an incredible response from both governments and from the private sector to respond very quickly to
09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake]
09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so
09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take
09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome
09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. Today, we're looking at digital development
09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus response as well as how the digital divide between
09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet technologies and those who do not have that
09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning
09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai, Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj
09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around the world. Thank you so much for joining us.
09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the World Bank's director for digital development.
10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,
10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the break, we were talking about the increased demand
10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,
10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing. A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,
10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked response to help meet some of that demand. Can
10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide between countries and places where people have
10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they don't? Help me and those watching understand
10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where are we talking about? What countries and regions
10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity and what are some of maybe the common factors
10:51 between countries and regions that struggle to provide ready and able Internet access?
10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.
11:00 I think one of the major learnings from this crisis is that this digital divide,
11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all know that we need to find a way to bridge it,
11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted like no other time before is, if you don't
11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal, then there is the risk of deeper inequalities
11:26 between countries and within countries. If we want to talk about the global digital divide,
11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world who do not have access to broadband connectivity.
11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we reached a very important milestone last year with
11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took 50 years for the world to reach that milestone,
11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the coin and look at the other side, it means we have
12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from what we are discussing now about digital having
12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline
12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is
12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries
12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single
12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile
13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're
13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately, many countries in the world still do not have it.
13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts
13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an email out to folks back home was really difficult,
13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're having today. For the World Bank's Development
13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,
13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez. They're two women, they're quite good friends.
13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really
13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that digital divide we're talking about this morning.
13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for their children's education, because in Colombia,
13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have been shut and many of the children have come home.
14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia.
14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The
14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working, they're studying private schools. So I think
14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in public schools, because we have full internet,
14:23 they have access to virtual classes through Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.
14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So they have been receiving their classes by these
14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do after class, which has been quite easy for them
14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I said before, I have all the internet connections.
14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are
14:50 your kids continuing their education while they're not able to physically attend school?
14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.
14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's very bad. In order to study, they're sending
15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before, the internet connection is really bad. And the
15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies to the school and they have to pick it up,
15:12 but it's far away from where they live. So sometimes it's difficult for them to
15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're managing right now, their virtual classes.
15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was
15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate their kids while living on opposite sides of that
15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the past few minutes. As schools have locked down,
15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where the digital divide is really creating haves and
15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi]
15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different dimensions of this digital divide within
15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for example, in the US with very good connectivity
15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and rural and there is a thinking to make sure
15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity to make sure no one is left behind. The other
16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very important to highlight is the gender digital
16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million women, fewer women than men, have access,
16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity. We know that 33% less women than men know what
16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not
16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital divide, we think about the rural urban divide,
16:43 we need to think about the gender divide. We need to think about those who have
16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the technology offers and those who don't. In the-
16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it
17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say.
17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.
17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another part that shows up and it's really complicated.
17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I
17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,
17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was
17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,
17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking about skills. Can you talk a little bit about
17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,
17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi]
17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector operators need to think about solutions within the
17:51 technology space, and there are many out there that cater to the needs of the disabled people.
17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity for you to know what's out there on the Internet,
18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see, a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who
18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't need to read it to be taking advantage of the
18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions, and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond
18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital divide has also a very important dimension about
18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake]
18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here, Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome
18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the
18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on the line. She's talking us through how the digital
18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19 and the plans and the preparation for the recovery
18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the digital divide being the difference between people
19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband Internet technologies and those who don't.
19:11 We see people joining from across the world, this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,
19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you
19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We really appreciate you being with us this morning.
19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just as we start to wind this program down, let's talk
19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the problems we've been talking about this morning.
19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group doing to try and bridge the digital divide that
19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds?
19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where
19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact
20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband connectivity is very different from voice.
20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking very closely at policy and regulatory environment
20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed to improve connectivity. It starts by getting
20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us, I think, connectivity is very important, but it
20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity. I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular
20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we
20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,
20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a very good exercise under the broadband commission
20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars
20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,
21:08 we need very close collaboration with private sector, with partners. I think
21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly the importance of a collaborative approach.
21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as
21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about this before this program, but help us understand
21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that access, it requires that capital, it requires that
21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit
21:43 more about that? Why identification is important and how it's being improved around the world?
21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital
21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life is moving to the online world. Being recognized
22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important. Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they
22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in Africa and many other parts of the world. Having
22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very important to also take advantage of the services.
22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the
22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,
22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are
22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a mindset that we need to have to think about using
22:52 technology for development and it starts with the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,
22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform, it needs this vision of the importance for
23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it, then, digital can become a source for deeper
23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank, we are really thinking along those lines and
23:16 we are working with many partners to have this ecosystem approach for digital connectivity.
23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger
23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes, the wires, to connect people to the Internet,
23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach that requires a lot of different aspects. Just
23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you, the World Bank believes digital development will
23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery from the pandemic that we're going through
23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this program last month, he made the case for that,
23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do you think that the pandemic we're living in right
23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity around the world? Is it underlying the need to
24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi]
24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver linings for the difficult times that we are
24:12 going through is that it really brought to the fore the importance of being connected to cope
24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of
24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber security or not having very robust systems
24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital economy. It is an opportunity. People say,
24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things right, in a way. I think it really brought
24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining all this sector that can rebuild better with
24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is
25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual way. It requires thinking outside of the box.
25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much
25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi]
25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake]
25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director for digital development. She joined us from her
25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a quick programming note for those who tune in
25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll start looking in earnest at the challenges and
25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents. We're looking at the big topics with some of
25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the international development community. We're kicking
25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a special program on food security. You can find the
25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.
25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.
25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and make each one better and better. In the meantime,
25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,
26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You can all also listen to the complete interview
26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in this program. Just search for the World
26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.
26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.

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