Coronavirus Live Series: Bridging the Digital Divide

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Coronavirus Live Series: Bridging the Digital Divide

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  • 00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
  • 00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting  
  • 00:17 just about every aspect of global development,  as well as the solutions that the international  
  • 00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that  today by looking at how digital development is  
  • 00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From  communications to remote working technologies,  
  • 00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to  distance learning, these are just a few of the  
  • 00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning  the response to this unprecedented crisis. As  
  • 00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to  digital services will be critical. That is the  
  • 00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David  Malpass shared on this program just last month. 
  • 00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries  
  • 00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural  areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,  
  • 01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that  is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the  
  • 01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make  progress on advancing the digital services that  
  • 01:21 people have available so they can get access to  information. That's a starting point for farmers  
  • 01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills.  One of the big things that people can do now,  
  • 01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills  learning at the basic level so that people are  
  • 01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something  that we're making available programs that will  
  • 01:50 help people get access to education or to skills  that will help them when there's a recovery. 
  • 01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of  
  • 02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting  some of the worst effects that could have been  
  • 02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for  them, others are being left behind. Lacking or  
  • 02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves  lives, sustains education and promotes business  
  • 02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide  and what it means for countries as they respond to  
  • 02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic  and what can be done to support digital inclusion,  
  • 02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the  World Bank's director for digital development,  
  • 02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so  much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live. 
  • 02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul. 
  • 02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I  
  • 02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is  playing a role in the pandemic response so far,  
  • 02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction,  there are some obvious ways that come to mind like  
  • 02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot  of businesses and schools to continue operating,  
  • 02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that  connectivity has just been critical in responding  
  • 03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here,  can you give me a sense of the scope in which  
  • 03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the  many things that this call was called since  
  • 03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the  sector that came to the rescue. It was called  
  • 03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that  allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time  
  • 03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the  social distancing, with the fact that people had  
  • 03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the  only way for business continuity was for people  
  • 03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world  where, if you are connected, if you have a good  
  • 03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware  and software, then, there was a possibility for  
  • 04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote  
  • 04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury  of having connection, who were able to continue  
  • 04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just  in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have  
  • 04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling.  Schooling is a very important element. We know  
  • 04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response  
  • 04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure  that kids go to school. The health sector,  
  • 04:57 of course. The health sector is really a  sector where connectivity has been very  
  • 05:03 important and digital solutions have been very  important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,  
  • 05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine,  we have examples of countries that we're able to  
  • 05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of  data and big data and artificial intelligence to  
  • 05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic  and how to contain it. Of course, all of this  
  • 05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and  due respect for the personal data that is there. 
  • 05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the  issues about how do we help citizens that need  
  • 05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social  plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,  
  • 06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of  social protection support given through digital  
  • 06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we  look at it, what this crisis really showed is that  
  • 06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of  transformation and digital transformation. We've  
  • 06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to  use technology because they don't know how to use  
  • 06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in  case they have the connection and in case they  
  • 06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake] 
  • 06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital  technology is really underpinning, whether it's  
  • 06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines,  whether it business, whether it's education, it's  
  • 06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing  that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being  
  • 07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish  flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,  
  • 07:10 none of those technologies were available back  then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking  
  • 07:14 about today were not available back then. As large  swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over  
  • 07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a  surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure  
  • 07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming  into people's homes. Could you talk a little  
  • 07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and  the conversations that you have with government  
  • 07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how  providers, be the Internet companies or other,  
  • 07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has  happened at multiple levels. On voice,  
  • 07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled,  and we do know that many countries today- 
  • 07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls.  [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries  
  • 08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very  nice discussion with a number of countries  
  • 08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan  that really showed that the voice pressure in  
  • 08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been  a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,  
  • 08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen  in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic  
  • 08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased  
  • 08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing,  video conferences, streaming. In the different  
  • 08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear  need that the operators needed to create more  
  • 08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether  voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,  
  • 09:03 an incredible response from both governments and  from the private sector to respond very quickly to  
  • 09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake] 
  • 09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice  or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so  
  • 09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded.  I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take  
  • 09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick  break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome  
  • 09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank  Live. Today, we're looking at digital development  
  • 09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus  response as well as how the digital divide between  
  • 09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet  technologies and those who do not have that  
  • 09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst  effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning  
  • 09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai,  Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj  
  • 09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around  the world. Thank you so much for joining us. 
  • 09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the  World Bank's director for digital development.  
  • 10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the  conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,  
  • 10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the  break, we were talking about the increased demand  
  • 10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies  that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,  
  • 10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing.  A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,  
  • 10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked  response to help meet some of that demand. Can  
  • 10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide  between countries and places where people have  
  • 10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they  don't? Help me and those watching understand  
  • 10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where  are we talking about? What countries and regions  
  • 10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity  and what are some of maybe the common factors  
  • 10:51 between countries and regions that struggle  to provide ready and able Internet access? 
  • 10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.  
  • 11:00 I think one of the major learnings from  this crisis is that this digital divide,  
  • 11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all  know that we need to find a way to bridge it,  
  • 11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted  like no other time before is, if you don't  
  • 11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal,  then there is the risk of deeper inequalities  
  • 11:26 between countries and within countries. If we  want to talk about the global digital divide,  
  • 11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world  who do not have access to broadband connectivity. 
  • 11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we  reached a very important milestone last year with  
  • 11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took  50 years for the world to reach that milestone,  
  • 11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the  coin and look at the other side, it means we have  
  • 12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from  what we are discussing now about digital having  
  • 12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an  opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline  
  • 12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and  connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is  
  • 12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case  of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries  
  • 12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in  Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single  
  • 12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband  defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile  
  • 13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it  comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're  
  • 13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately,  many countries in the world still do not have it. 
  • 13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts  
  • 13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an  email out to folks back home was really difficult,  
  • 13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're  having today. For the World Bank's Development  
  • 13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers  in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,  
  • 13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez.  They're two women, they're quite good friends.  
  • 13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena  is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really  
  • 13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that  digital divide we're talking about this morning.  
  • 13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for  their children's education, because in Colombia,  
  • 13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have  been shut and many of the children have come home.  
  • 14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip  so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia. 
  • 14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The  
  • 14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working,  they're studying private schools. So I think  
  • 14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in  public schools, because we have full internet,  
  • 14:23 they have access to virtual classes through  Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.  
  • 14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So  they have been receiving their classes by these  
  • 14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do  after class, which has been quite easy for them  
  • 14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I  said before, I have all the internet connections. 
  • 14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are  
  • 14:50 your kids continuing their education while  they're not able to physically attend school?
  • 14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.  
  • 14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's  very bad. In order to study, they're sending  
  • 15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before,  the internet connection is really bad. And the  
  • 15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies  to the school and they have to pick it up,  
  • 15:12 but it's far away from where they live.  So sometimes it's difficult for them to  
  • 15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're  managing right now, their virtual classes. 
  • 15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was  
  • 15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate  their kids while living on opposite sides of that  
  • 15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the  past few minutes. As schools have locked down,  
  • 15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where  the digital divide is really creating haves and  
  • 15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different  dimensions of this digital divide within  
  • 15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for  example, in the US with very good connectivity  
  • 15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and  rural and there is a thinking to make sure  
  • 15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity  to make sure no one is left behind. The other  
  • 16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very  important to highlight is the gender digital  
  • 16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million  women, fewer women than men, have access,  
  • 16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity.  We know that 33% less women than men know what  
  • 16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked  to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not  
  • 16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital  divide, we think about the rural urban divide,  
  • 16:43 we need to think about the gender divide.  We need to think about those who have  
  • 16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the  technology offers and those who don't. In the- 
  • 16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it  
  • 17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital  divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say. 
  • 17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.  
  • 17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another  part that shows up and it's really complicated. 
  • 17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I  
  • 17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on  the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,  
  • 17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting  on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was  
  • 17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges  that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,  
  • 17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking  about skills. Can you talk a little bit about  
  • 17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who  either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,  
  • 17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector  operators need to think about solutions within the  
  • 17:51 technology space, and there are many out there  that cater to the needs of the disabled people.  
  • 17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity  for you to know what's out there on the Internet,  
  • 18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see,  a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who  
  • 18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't  need to read it to be taking advantage of the  
  • 18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions,  and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond  
  • 18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital  divide has also a very important dimension about  
  • 18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake] 
  • 18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here,  Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome  
  • 18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank  Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the  
  • 18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on  the line. She's talking us through how the digital  
  • 18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19  and the plans and the preparation for the recovery  
  • 18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the  digital divide being the difference between people  
  • 19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband  Internet technologies and those who don't. 
  • 19:11 We see people joining from across the world,  this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,  
  • 19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana  in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you  
  • 19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We  really appreciate you being with us this morning.  
  • 19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just  as we start to wind this program down, let's talk  
  • 19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the  problems we've been talking about this morning.  
  • 19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group  doing to try and bridge the digital divide that  
  • 19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also  before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds? 
  • 19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where  
  • 19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of  these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact  
  • 20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband  connectivity is very different from voice.  
  • 20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking  very closely at policy and regulatory environment  
  • 20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed  to improve connectivity. It starts by getting  
  • 20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us,  I think, connectivity is very important, but it  
  • 20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity.  I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular  
  • 20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we  
  • 20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs  to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,  
  • 20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a  very good exercise under the broadband commission  
  • 20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know  today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars  
  • 20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity  of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,  
  • 21:08 we need very close collaboration with  private sector, with partners. I think  
  • 21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly  the importance of a collaborative approach. 
  • 21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as  
  • 21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about  this before this program, but help us understand  
  • 21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that  access, it requires that capital, it requires that  
  • 21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof  of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit  
  • 21:43 more about that? Why identification is important  and how it's being improved around the world? 
  • 21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital  
  • 21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life  is moving to the online world. Being recognized  
  • 22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important.  Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they  
  • 22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in  Africa and many other parts of the world. Having  
  • 22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very  important to also take advantage of the services. 
  • 22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash  transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the  
  • 22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very  important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,  
  • 22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion  is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are  
  • 22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a  mindset that we need to have to think about using  
  • 22:52 technology for development and it starts with  the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,  
  • 22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform,  it needs this vision of the importance for  
  • 23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it,  then, digital can become a source for deeper  
  • 23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank,  we are really thinking along those lines and  
  • 23:16 we are working with many partners to have this  ecosystem approach for digital connectivity. 
  • 23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger  
  • 23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes,  the wires, to connect people to the Internet,  
  • 23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach  that requires a lot of different aspects. Just  
  • 23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you,  the World Bank believes digital development will  
  • 23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery  from the pandemic that we're going through  
  • 23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this  program last month, he made the case for that,  
  • 23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do  you think that the pandemic we're living in right  
  • 23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity  around the world? Is it underlying the need to  
  • 24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver  linings for the difficult times that we are  
  • 24:12 going through is that it really brought to the  fore the importance of being connected to cope  
  • 24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance  of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of  
  • 24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber  security or not having very robust systems  
  • 24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital  economy. It is an opportunity. People say,  
  • 24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things  right, in a way. I think it really brought  
  • 24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining  all this sector that can rebuild better with  
  • 24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and  reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is  
  • 25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual  way. It requires thinking outside of the box. 
  • 25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much  
  • 25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi] 
  • 25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake] 
  • 25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director  for digital development. She joined us from her  
  • 25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a  quick programming note for those who tune in  
  • 25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll  start looking in earnest at the challenges and  
  • 25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents.  We're looking at the big topics with some of  
  • 25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the  international development community. We're kicking  
  • 25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a  special program on food security. You can find the  
  • 25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.  
  • 25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment  or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.  
  • 25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and  make each one better and better. In the meantime,  
  • 25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and  its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,  
  • 26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You  can all also listen to the complete interview  
  • 26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in  this program. Just search for the World  
  • 26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple  or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.  
  • 26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and  we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.
Read the chat
Aleksandr

Good afternoon! Tell us your opinion about DLT technology and company Ripple. How interested are you in using their XRP token and ODL solution?
Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05
Pascal martin aruja Pascal martin arooja

Please allow Research fund, Food fund, Uniform fund, Equipment fund, Transport fund and Medicine fund,Totel amount calculate.... Please fund cash proceed...
Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05
Swarup Kumar kundu

Economic help poor people every country Coronavirus situation
Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05
Faher Elfayez, World Bank

Welcome everyone! We are excited for today's dynamic conversation on how the poorest countries and people are being left behind. What can we do to support digital inclusion?
Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:06
Shinta Nakavuma

How are going to do this? In the long run getting the technology might be cheap but accessing internet is the challenge because in my country (Uganda) internet is expensive for a number of people.
Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:06

Read the chat below!

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