Loud and Clear: Teach Children in a Language They Use and Understand

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Loud and Clear: Teach Children in a Language They Use and Understand

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  • 00:05 [Femi Oke]: Hello everybody. My name is Femi Oke.  
  • 00:08 I am going to be your moderator for the next 90  minutes. Children. when they're taught at school  
  • 00:14 in the language that they speak at home, do better  in their school studies. It's just the fact.  
  • 00:21 I have been a journalist for many, many, many  years, decades in fact. And about 13 years ago, I  
  • 00:27 was reporting and living in South Africa and a new  keyboard had been designed and the keyboard was  
  • 00:33 not a keyboard full of English characters. It had  the characters of the languages that the children  
  • 00:39 were speaking at home. Instantly, homework got  better. It came in on time. The students study  
  • 00:46 better because they could type in characters  that they understood in a language that matched  
  • 00:50 the languages they spoke at home. So the reason  we're all here is because as the World Bank has  
  • 00:56 put out its first policy proposal for language  that is important, that children speak at home.
  • 01:08 [Femi Oke]: So we are going to be talking about that.  
  • 01:11 And in this conversation we will  have, are bank officials, academics,  
  • 01:17 we have ministers and we will also have you, you  see that little chat box there, your comments,  
  • 01:23 your questions, you can put them in the chat box.  We have a World Bank team who will be looking at  
  • 01:28 those comments, questions, answering them,  and also bringing those conversations, your  
  • 01:33 comments. I will bring them into the conversation  here because we are a multi-lingual conversation.  
  • 01:39 We will have interpretation in French,  Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, and also  
  • 01:46 in English. So now that we're all set and we're  ready to go. Welcome everybody to Loud and Clear,  
  • 01:54 teach children in a language  they use and understand.
  • 01:58 [Female voice]: 
  • 02:02 Think back to your school days, you may remember  your classroom supplies mates, a favorite teacher,  
  • 02:10 even a principal. The teacher would  explain the lessons and some students  
  • 02:14 would understand while others had questions,  but you could tell learning was happening.  
  • 02:20 Now imagine the same classroom, but when  the teacher speaks, she uses a language  
  • 02:26 that students don't understand. As you can tell,  it is impossible for children to learn this way.  
  • 02:33 Unfortunately, this problem is not uncommon.  Nearly 37% of children are taught in a language  
  • 02:39 they don't understand in low and middle income  countries. This is a major reason for the high  
  • 02:45 rates of learning poverty seen around the  world. These children miss their chance to  
  • 02:50 learn foundational skills like reading that  are critical for future success. Even worse.  
  • 02:56 These children tend to be the most vulnerable.  This is because national policies often require  
  • 03:02 teachers to speak in a language. Students don't  understand, but better policies are possible.
  • 03:07 [Female voice]: There is a better way.  
  • 03:09 When children are taught in a language,  they understand through basic spoke,  
  • 03:13 they have the opportunity to learn not only  the language they speak at home, but also other  
  • 03:18 school subjects like math and science, as well as  other languages. To end learning poverty issues of  
  • 03:25 language of instruction must be addressed.  Let's give every child the chance to learn  
  • 03:31 let's ensure every child is taught  in a language. They understand.
  • 03:43 [Femi  
  • 03:44 Oke]: We are talking about the impact of using a  
  • 03:47 language of instruction and what that language of  instruction should be to help children do better.  
  • 03:53 Hello, Alberto. Hello, Dina. Nice to see you. Two  very important people from the World Bank. They're  
  • 03:58 going to tell you how important they are. Alberto  introduce yourself to the world bank librarians.
  • 04:02 [Alberto Rodriguez]: Well, it's great to be  
  • 04:06 here. Good morning. Good afternoon. My name is  Alberto Rodriguez. I am the director of operations  
  • 04:11 and strategy for human development, and it's a  great pleasure to join this conversation Femi.
  • 04:16 [Femi Oke]: So good to have you. Hello, Dina.  
  • 04:18 Welcome to our conversation. Nice to see you,  introduce yourself to our live audience today.
  • 04:24 [Dena Ringold]: 
  • 04:25 Sure. Good morning Femi, and good afternoon  to colleagues out there. And hi Alberto,  
  • 04:30 my name is Dina Ringgold and I'm regional director  for human development in Western central Africa.
  • 04:36 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 04:37 Let's start with you Alberto, just in  case anybody's not aware of what learning  
  • 04:42 poverty actually means, would you  just sum that up very quickly for us?
  • 04:45 [Alberto Rodriguez]: Well, first of all, learning poverty  
  • 04:49 is a measurement that we're using in the bank  to precisely identify the impact of low social  
  • 04:56 capacity, low economic capacity, and in general,  social poverty on learning. And the fact that  
  • 05:02 actually learning is very inequitable. Our poorest  and most vulnerable are actually the kids who are  
  • 05:10 learning the least. Now this is important because  we are in a very particular context. I mean,  
  • 05:16 as you know well, we are in a moment where we  have a crisis within a crisis, if you will,  
  • 05:24 we're going through this pandemic, and  this pandemic has generated a terrible  
  • 05:28 crisis for families, students,  educators. Before the COVID-19,  
  • 05:36 we already knew that we had a learning  crisis. We already knew that not every  
  • 05:41 child was learning and that in fact, our  poorest kids were learning the least those  
  • 05:45 that came from vulnerable families and countries  have done a lot to bring children to school.
  • 05:51 [Alberto Rodriguez]: But now they're starting to realize, and  
  • 05:53 they were starting to realize before the pandemic,  that learning was very, very limited, even though  
  • 05:57 kids may have been in school. COVID has threatened  things even further. The reality is that the twin  
  • 06:05 shock of school closures and the economy crisis,  are really threatening to exacerbate this burning  
  • 06:12 crisis that we're talking about and that the  learning poverty indicators are very clear about.  
  • 06:19 Now within this crisis, I think that this event  is actually very, very timely because one can  
  • 06:25 not ignore the issue of language of instruction,  as one of the important elements of this crisis,  
  • 06:33 language is essential to learning,  instruction unfolds through language,  
  • 06:38 we all know that we all went to school and, and  it is really ultimately very unfortunate that  
  • 06:45 millions of children, up to 37% of children  in low and middle income countries are taught  
  • 06:52 in a language that they don't use at  home and that they don't understand.
  • 06:55 [Alberto Rodriguez]: So why are we surprised  
  • 06:57 that there is a learning crisis?  Isn't it possible that in fact,  
  • 07:02 this is part a very important part of the issue of  why children don't learn. It is true that teachers  
  • 07:08 need to be trained curriculums improved,  and all of the educational inputs can help  
  • 07:14 improve learning. But language of instruction can  be very much at the center of the learning crisis  
  • 07:21 and that's why this is important. And I would  argue that that good language policies are still  
  • 07:29 an exception and not the rule. And this is when  focusing on language is important, and this is  
  • 07:35 why this event is important. And we want to bring  this issue to the forefront of our education work.
  • 07:39 [Femi Oke]: Dina. We are going to be looking in more detail  
  • 07:44 at the World Bank policy paper on language of  instruction and what it means for different  
  • 07:50 regions, what it means for governments and policy  makers. But there's something that I noticed  
  • 07:55 cause I read the policy paper and there's a  correlation between learning poverty and children,  
  • 08:05 language of instruction where they're  being taught in a language that is not  
  • 08:08 the language that they grew up speaking at home.  So there's a direct correlation, particularly  
  • 08:13 on the African continent, bearing in mind your  job and your role right now at the World Bank.  
  • 08:20 Can you explain what those difficulties are  between learning poverty? So children's'  
  • 08:24 ability to do basic mathematics and being able  to read and being taught in a language that they  
  • 08:30 don't actually speak or understand. Why is that  such a big challenge on the African continent?
  • 08:36 [Dena Ringold]: Thanks, Femi. And I think that those are  
  • 08:39 really critical questions from the perspective  of our work in Sub-Saharan Africa as whole in  
  • 08:46 Western central Africa, in particular education  and addressing the types of issues around the  
  • 08:53 learning crisis that Alberto just mentioned  are key. And in our strategic priorities,  
  • 08:58 human capital and education for country's  future growth, productivity, development, for  
  • 09:07 individuals, for families is absolutely central.  And I think what we see in this report is that we  
  • 09:13 cannot make progress on learning, on improving  education outcomes without considering language  
  • 09:20 of instruction. So if I take the region where I  work the learning situation is dire four out of  
  • 09:29 five. Children are in learning poverty. I think we  have the highest level of out of school children  
  • 09:35 in the world. And it's also one of the most rich  and diverse regions as far as language goes.
  • 09:43 [Dena Ringold]: So we, I think there are five  
  • 09:46 official languages in the region, but the truth is  there 940 languages that's Western central Africa.  
  • 09:54 I think if you take the continent as a whole it's  1500 languages and many of these languages cross  
  • 10:01 borders. So I think you can already start to  imagine some of the challenges that emerge for,  
  • 10:08 for policymakers, but these are challenges we have  to tackle because as the report says, children  
  • 10:14 will learn more if they're taught in their first  language. So I think this means really thinking  
  • 10:20 about how to do this, how to train teachers,  how to select which of these multiple languages  
  • 10:29 schools can usefully provide and how to think  about adjusting, learning materials and textbooks.  
  • 10:37 So I think this report puts those issues  on the table in a really useful way.
  • 10:42 [Femi Oke]: Dina I'm going  
  • 10:43 to share this question with you from World Bank  live. And the question is Nigeria has over 500  
  • 10:50 languages. So deal point is so many languages  or in the continent of Africa, how should  
  • 10:56 schools operate when there's so many different  languages are spoken? That is sort of like a 101  
  • 11:01 challenge. What have you seen working effectively?
  • 11:05 [Dena Ringold]: So I think these are great questions.  
  • 11:09 And I think one of the things that the report  does really well is look at how to think about  
  • 11:20 both starting, right? So the importance of the  early years, and I think we've seen examples  
  • 11:27 from across the world where starting kids  in pre-primary and early childhood in their  
  • 11:34 mother tongue is really effective and  you can do this in community schools.  
  • 11:39 New Zealand did this by having grandmothers teach  indigenous kids the Maori indigenous language,  
  • 11:46 but there's also economies of scale,  right? So even if you have 500 languages,  
  • 11:51 you can look at this and see, how, which languages  are spoken by a greater number of people in order  
  • 11:57 to adjust policies and textbooks to capture the  most kids, but it is absolutely a challenge.
  • 12:03 [Femi Oke]: Alberto the policy  
  • 12:07 paper and language of instruction also says, we  are here as a resource. What can the World Bank  
  • 12:13 do to help you governments, policy makers? Can  you emphasize that when people are watching this,  
  • 12:20 when people then looking at the executive summary  of the policy paper, when they're thinking we can  
  • 12:28 do this. What is the World Bank offering?  What is the support that we're able to give?
  • 12:32 [Alberto Rodriguez]: Well, as I said earlier,  
  • 12:34 this is a very important issue for us. There's a  number of things that we are doing and in fact,  
  • 12:42 this paper itself is one of them  where we're bringing forward research,  
  • 12:45 country level research that tells us what works  and what doesn't work. You know, one thing that  
  • 12:52 we found that I think is extremely interesting is  that the best way for a student to learn a second  
  • 12:59 language is to have their mother language  as a strong basis and a strong foundation.  
  • 13:04 In other words, it is very understandable for  example, that a parent will want their child  
  • 13:08 to learn English because they see high value  in the child learning English. However, we  
  • 13:14 now bring forward research that shows that it is  not a choice between that and the mother tongue,  
  • 13:19 you can do both. And in fact, both build on  each other for stronger outcomes for that child.
  • 13:24 [Alberto Rodriguez]: So I think there's a technical  
  • 13:26 element that the bank brings forward of knowledge,  of research, of information. But this issue is not  
  • 13:32 only technical, this issue is also requires a  commitment of society. And the reason is because  
  • 13:39 this is an issue that can be quite personal and  even political language is a tool that is used  
  • 13:44 to pursue different societal and personal goals.  And therefore there needs to be a conversation,  
  • 13:50 an agreement, a commitment from the population  and from our government around this issue.  
  • 13:56 So I've pointed out the two issues, commitment,  discussion about it and second technical aspects,  
  • 14:03 knowledge in both the bank can be a strong  player. We're able to convene different actors  
  • 14:08 of societies, we're present in the countries  and can help that discussion and can bring to  
  • 14:14 that discussion the knowledge, the research, and  the evidence that is required to have an informed  
  • 14:20 discussion around this issue, making a sound plan  around language and instruction is a key portion  
  • 14:28 of implementing it and making it a success for  the learning of all students. We can help on that.
  • 14:36 [Femi Oke]: I like that you address the elephant in the room,  
  • 14:40 and that is the language of instruction.  Isn't just about a school policy. Sometimes  
  • 14:48 it is political about the language that taught  in a country. So this, this question for World  
  • 14:55 Bank live is a good one. This observation  teachers want to teach in a language that  
  • 15:00 kids understand. Some governments don't and many  parents and teachers see why it is better for the  
  • 15:06 students to use their home, their local language  in school, but the government requires instruction  
  • 15:10 in the official language of the country. So then  what do you do? It's a hot topic. Know it's a  
  • 15:18 difficult topic to address Alberto, how will  you guide us in the rest of our conversation?
  • 15:23 [Alberto Rodriguez]: I think it is a difficult topic, but I think we  
  • 15:26 have to go back to the basics if you will. I think  everyone, local governments, national governments,  
  • 15:32 we all want students to succeed. Our objective  or goal is for students to succeed in school,  
  • 15:39 to be happy , to be active citizens of the  world, contributors, both on the economy,  
  • 15:46 but also on the societal aspects. And  therefore we focus on that ultimate goal  
  • 15:51 and we say, that's what we all want. Then we go  back to the evidence and we say, how can that be  
  • 15:57 done? And that's where we find that children  are more likely to be successful in school.
  • 16:02 [Alberto Rodriguez]: If they learn in their own language,  
  • 16:04 even though they can learn other  languages as well. And that's what  
  • 16:07 I indicated that it's not an either or it's an  and option. You can learn both. And in fact,  
  • 16:13 when you have strong support and basis in  your mother tongue, it is easier and it is  
  • 16:20 more effective to learn a second language. So  this is really a consensus building process  
  • 16:26 where you focus on the ultimate result,  the ultimate goal, and you work through  
  • 16:31 the evidence to get there. I think it is  possible and I think we can help in that process
  • 16:36 [Femi Oke]: Alberto and Dina,  
  • 16:38 thank you so much for kicking off our conversation  today. I've been talking about this World Bank  
  • 16:43 policy paper on language of instruction. The very  first one ever the PDF is 104 pages long. One of  
  • 16:52 the people who's responsible for that PDF, not by  himself because it's the work of an entire team  
  • 16:59 is Jaime , come in here and introduce yourself,  tell everybody who you are and what you do.
  • 17:04 [Jaime Saavedra]: Thank you very much  
  • 17:06 Femi. This is Jaime Saavedra, I'm the global  director for education in the world bank.
  • 17:10 [Femi Oke]: So nice to have you. It's a beautiful  
  • 17:15 policy paper. It's accessible,  
  • 17:18 104 pages long, but you are going to  condense that into the next few minutes.
  • 17:23 [Jaime Saavedra]: Thank you very much. Thank you very  
  • 17:25 much Femi. Let me do the more complicated thing  here, which is sharing my screen. I will do well.  
  • 17:33 And let me see if I'm succeeding or not. Okay.  Great. Excellent. So to a certain extent,  
  • 17:44 many people would say, why would we need a policy  paper and a seminar something that's called,  
  • 17:51 let's teach children in a language  that they use and understand,  
  • 17:54 right? It might sound to a large  extent that will sound obvious, right?  
  • 17:59 Isn't that something that we should  be doing right? Isn't it obvious that  
  • 18:05 countries should be doing that? And unfortunately,  and as I was already mentioning, I mean, there  
  • 18:12 are technical issues, there are political issues  why that is not happening , we do have a problem  
  • 18:23 about a third of gifts, right? Are being taught  in a language that they don't understand.
  • 18:29 [Jaime Saavedra]: 
  • 18:30 And many kids in the world are failing in terms  of attaining the foundational skills that they  
  • 18:36 nearly not being, they need in school in order  to continue in school as I begged to introduce  
  • 18:46 just before the pandemic, we launched this  number and this concept of learning poverty,  
  • 18:52 and we said, what's the share of students or  children in general? But then what's the share  
  • 18:56 of children who cannot read and understand  a simple text page? If you think this well,  
  • 19:02 this percentage should be zero, right? All  kids should be able to learn and to be able  
  • 19:07 to read and understand by age. Unfortunately, that  number is 53%. That is an extremely high number,  
  • 19:14 but most of those kids are in school. Some of  them are not, but most of them are in school,  
  • 19:19 are not learning the foundational skills. And  actually this number varies a lot across regions.
  • 19:25 [Jaime Saavedra]: So it is still a worrisome 21% in East Asia, 13%,  
  • 19:29 anything in Europe and Central Asia, but it's  almost 90% in Sub-Saharan Africa and between  
  • 19:35 the fifties and the sixties in Latin America  and Middle-East and North Africa and in South  
  • 19:40 Asia. So this is really a failure, right? So  we were saying, look, we do have a crisis here,  
  • 19:48 but this will be represented  was just before the pandemic,  
  • 19:55 right? And now as Dina and Alberto were  mentioning the pandemic is threatening,  
  • 20:01 but to make things much worse, we have a  gigantic two in shock, right? Our school closures  
  • 20:07 and a huge economic crisis, which is decreasing  both the quantity and the quality of education.  
  • 20:12 The dropout rates, we already have evidence  that are going up. Learning losses are mounting,  
  • 20:20 and maybe this 53% will be increasing according to  our simulations after these alone lone closures.
  • 20:29 [Jaime Saavedra]: And our initial estimations were that this 53%  
  • 20:34 might be going up to 63%. And unfortunately,  even this might be an underestimation given  
  • 20:41 the extent of the school closures that we  see throughout the world. And unfortunately  
  • 20:46 this is a very unequal impact because not  all children have had as the same access  
  • 20:51 to remote learning throughout this month.  This learning crisis is intrinsically  
  • 20:58 connected to language, right? The students, a  student home language, which is called L1, right  
  • 21:07 in the jargon of your specialists, right? If that  language is her initial endowment of knowledge and  
  • 21:14 is the basic, the basis for a good start of, of  learning to read or a good start learning math,  
  • 21:21 or other subjects that we want them to master  in school. And unfortunately there are many  
  • 21:28 conditions in many countries in which the  conditions for learning like are challenging.
  • 21:32 [Jaime Saavedra]: And in addition, language diversity, right,  
  • 21:35 makes the challenge even tougher. And what we find  is that 37%, this is a very high number of kids  
  • 21:43 in low income countries are being taught in the  language that they don't understand. And there is  
  • 21:49 a very high correlation between learning poverty  at the regional level and precisely that share of  
  • 21:55 children who... [voices in the background]... if  they could mute their mic, that would be great.  
  • 22:07 In particular, we see that in Sub-Saharan Africa,  
  • 22:10 Middle-East and North Africa, very high  rates of learning poverty, very high rates  
  • 22:16 of teaching children, not being teachen in the  right language. Interestingly, in Latin America,  
  • 22:20 we see a very small number of kids that  are being taught in the wrong language,  
  • 22:24 but that number is because there are a few  countries, large countries like Argentina or  
  • 22:30 Columbia in which this issue of language diversity  is not a gigantic one, but I mean, overall,  
  • 22:36 we do see a large correlation between learning  poverty and the challenge that we're faced.
  • 22:41 [Jaime Saavedra]: If the child  
  • 22:43 is not taught the language they speak at home,  they are more likely to beat from the bottom  
  • 22:48 40 of the socioeconomic scales. Right? If schools  in that area are, do not have the right language,  
  • 22:55 they might just never enroll. And if  they do, they might be absent from class,  
  • 22:59 they might drop out, they might never achieve  the cognitive, academic and language skills.
  • 23:02 [Jaime Saavedra]: They might drop out. They might never achieve the   cognitive academic language  skills that we want them,  
  • 23:05 but there is a better way. And the  better way is about a policy package.  
  • 23:10 And I emphasize the word package because we say  we need to train teachers. We need books. We need  
  • 23:15 problem covered in the classroom. Yes, we need  all things. But the key things that we need to  
  • 23:20 have a package of interventions, if we want  to move the needle of learning. And the first  
  • 23:25 element of that package is what Alberto was  saying is political commit. It's political  
  • 23:30 and technical commitment. And sometimes that  political commitment is about the willingness to  
  • 23:36 measure learning even if that brings us bad news,  to measure learning, set targets and move fast.
  • 23:41 [Jaime Saavedra]: Second part of the package,  
  • 23:43 supporting teachers. Third part of the package,  provide quality and age-appropriate books. Make  
  • 23:48 sure that all kids have books and texts in their  hands. Fourth, teaching the right language,  
  • 23:54 right? And fifth, engage parents  and the community because there  
  • 23:57 has to be a continuity of the learning  process between the school and the home.  
  • 24:02 So we need to implement all this package  including digital language of instruction.
  • 24:07 [Jaime Saavedra]: And if that happens,  
  • 24:09 our research is showing that if the child is  starting to write in the right language, learning  
  • 24:16 will be faster and will be more efficient.  And actually as it was mentioned already,  
  • 24:23 the acquisition of the second language, right?  What they call L2 would be even easier, right?  
  • 24:30 Students will develop more confidence and learn  with more confidence, other academic subjects  
  • 24:35 and develop their good cognitive abilities.  And what's more important, there will be a  
  • 24:39 better interaction between teachers and students,  right? The school would be a nicer place for kids.  
  • 24:45 And the school would be a more inclusive,  effective, and efficient place for learning.
  • 24:50 [Jaime Saavedra]: Let me close with defining very quickly what are  
  • 24:54 those effective language of instruction policies,  and let me summarize this in five principles.  
  • 25:00 The first one is teach children in the  language they understand through the first  
  • 25:05 six years of primary school. The early grades are  the most important one. The second one is teach in  
  • 25:12 that language, not only reading and writing, but  other subjects as Math, Science, History. Third  
  • 25:19 principle, introduce the additional language with  a focus of oral and language skills at the right  
  • 25:26 moment. Fourth principle, continue then working  in both languages, right? In the second language  
  • 25:32 but also continue emphasizing instruction in the  mother tongue. And fifth principle is we need to  
  • 25:41 plan well. We need to implement policies, evaluate  them, monitor their working well and adjust.
  • 25:48 [Jaime Saavedra]: This is a learning  
  • 25:49 process. And it's a very complex process.  All this thing is easier said than done. This  
  • 25:54 is a very complex implementation challenge  here. First of all, we need to do a very  
  • 26:00 careful language mapping. I mean, just  understanding who speaks what and where,  
  • 26:05 it's not trivial at all. And you were mentioned  the case of Nigeria which you have 500 languages,  
  • 26:10 but just understanding clearly what is being  spoken in each community is a very complex issue.
  • 26:18 [Jaime Saavedra]: Then you need to decide on teaching  
  • 26:20 and learning materials on which languages.  It might be very difficult to do it in 500.  
  • 26:25 You need to choose what will be the 20 or 30.  That was my case when I was ministering Peru.  
  • 26:30 We had to develop materials in 22 languages,  which was a very tough challenge, right? But  
  • 26:36 you need to do that. And it was very happy  of approving new alphabets in some cases,  
  • 26:40 right? That was fantastic, right? It's  really making a change in the life of people.
  • 26:44 [Jaime Saavedra]: Third, you need to recruit teachers, allocate  
  • 26:48 them in the right places. Ideally, teachers that  will know both languages, which is not easy,  
  • 26:53 right? And you really need to support it. And we  need to measure learning all the time to see if  
  • 26:58 things are happening. And obviously, technology  in these day and ages can really help. And  
  • 27:06 public policy is not easy, right? We need  to adapt policies to ensure that they also  
  • 27:11 meet the needs of children with disability and  those living in fragile and conflict settings.
  • 27:15 [Jaime Saavedra]: Let me finalize saying that yes,  
  • 27:19 this is difficult. This is tough public policy,  but this is essential public policy. And there  
  • 27:24 has been some successes. In Cameroon, right? Kom  was introduced as a language of instructions in  
  • 27:29 the first three grades and then transitioned  to English in the fourth one. In Uganda,  
  • 27:34 12 local languages introducing the first three  grade, then transition to English in grade four.  
  • 27:39 Peru is use a local languages in the early  years, although not yet in the whole country.  
  • 27:43 And then Spanish becomes the language of  instruction, depending at the moment in  
  • 27:47 which was the child's original Spanish fluency.  We know these cases. There is evidence that  
  • 27:56 learning scores will improve  in our and every program.
  • 27:58 [Jaime Saavedra]: What's our commitment? It's a very  
  • 28:02 loud and clear commitment. We need to make sure  that we will continue working with countries and  
  • 28:07 with governments to make sure that all children  are taught in the language that they understand  
  • 28:12 if we want to give them the future they deserve.  Thank you very much, ma'am. You're muted, Femi.
  • 28:19 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 28:23 Thank you, honey. I have something I want to share  with you, and this comes from World Bank live,  
  • 28:28 as you were speaking, as you were giving your  presentation. This is Julia Roman Menacho,  
  • 28:35 "Very interesting topic but in Bolivia, the  native indigenous children are taught in Spanish  
  • 28:41 even if they speak Aymara, Quechua,  Guarani or other languages. This is  
  • 28:46 detrimental to the learning of boys and  girls. This situation must be changed."  
  • 28:52 I mean, you did that in Peru. Can any of  the neighboring countries also do that?
  • 28:57 [Jaime Saavedra]: Look, yes they can, and they should  
  • 29:00 and it's happening. And we're going to hear about  the case of Ecuador in a few minutes in which yes,  
  • 29:06 they are implemented those policies and it's  difficult. I can understand that. It's difficult  
  • 29:10 sometimes from a political perspective  because parents say, "No, I want the kids  
  • 29:15 to learn in Spanish." But as Eduardo Alberto  was saying, right? Yes, this is correct. This  
  • 29:20 is a valid desire. We need to do that, but we  will do it in a more effective way if we start  
  • 29:26 first in Quechua or in Aymara and then the  children transits to Spanish. The challenge  
  • 29:32 is that we need to find teachers in all places  that will master both languages. That will be  
  • 29:37 ideal. We need to develop the reading materials in  both languages and that's difficult public policy,  
  • 29:44 but it's really doable and I think we're going  to hear very good examples of this happening.
  • 29:48 [Jaime Saavedra]: It happened in Peru and I would say for us,  
  • 29:52 the easy part what's complicated was a huge amount  of work of many technical people of developing  
  • 29:58 materials. And in some cases regarding languages  in the Amazon create new alphabets, right?  
  • 30:05 But that's the easy part in quotes, because  then the training that's supportive of teachers,  
  • 30:10 that's the more complicated one, right? And we  need to deploy all teachers across the whole  
  • 30:16 country. That's more complicated and that  might take some time, but we need to do it.
  • 30:21 [Femi Oke]: All right. We're about to  
  • 30:22 hear how complicated it is. Jaime will be back at  the end of our program with his reflections of our  
  • 30:27 two round tables. We have two round tables. The  first one will be looking at challenges, language  
  • 30:35 of instruction in place and how various different  countries and regents are dealing with that  
  • 30:40 challenge. And the second round table will be  looking at implementation. How to get this done?
  • 30:46 [Femi Oke]: All right, round table number one,  
  • 30:48 our virtual round table. On it, we have  Minister Stanislas Ouaro from Burkina  
  • 30:54 Faso. We have Vice Minister Cinthya Game from  Ecuador. And Dr. Hanada Taha is also joining  
  • 31:04 us from Zayed University and also Adama Ouane,  former director of UNESCO Lifelong Learning.  
  • 31:11 Nice to see all of you. I'm going to get you to do  your own introduction so you can ground yourself  
  • 31:16 in why you're so important in this conversation.  Now it is not going to be a Ted talk introduction,  
  • 31:20 because you're all brilliant people, but  just a brief introduction so we understand  
  • 31:24 your connection with language of instruction  and why you care about that so much. Minister  
  • 31:31 Ouaro from Burkina Faso, go ahead. Introduce  yourself to our World Bank live audience.
  • 31:35 [French interpreter]: 
  • 31:40 Okay. Thank you very much for putting together  this meeting. Thank you for the initial  
  • 31:50 presentation and the importance of teaching in  the mother tongue. I am the education minister.  
  • 31:59 And we call it the Ministry of National Education,  Literacy and Promotion of National Languages,  
  • 32:10 which shows the will of the government to  promote the national languages and the use  
  • 32:15 of these languages in education to promote,  to value and to protect national languages,  
  • 32:24 preventing them from disappearing as it  happens to other countries. So the first  
  • 32:30 difficulty that we face in Burkina Faso.  It has to do with the number of languages.
  • 32:32 [Femi Oke]: So minister, if  
  • 32:33 I may, I'm going to say hello to your other  co-panelist and then we will come back to you.
  • 32:42 [French interpreter]: [Speaking French]
  • 32:43 [Femi Oke]: But I love  
  • 32:44 how enthusiastic you are to get to the challenges.
  • 32:55 [French interpreter]: [Speaking French]
  • 32:56 [Femi Oke]: I will come back to you. [French interpreter]: [Speaking French] [Femi Oke]: So we move on to the vice minister,  
  • 32:58 Cinthya Game for Ecuador. Vice minister,  please introduce yourself and your connection  
  • 33:03 with why language of instruction  is so important in your country.
  • 33:09 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: Morning everybody. I'm Cinthya.  
  • 33:18 In Ecuador, the policy of intercultural bilingual  is very important because I have 14 nationalities  
  • 33:29 and different cultures. And it is a  challenger of Ecuador change this policy.
  • 33:37 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 33:39 Thank you very much. We  move on to Dr. Hanada Taha.  
  • 33:43 Nice to have you. Your connection with language of  instruction, why it's so important in your work?
  • 33:50 [Hanada Taha]: Hi Femi. Hi, everybody. Lovely to be here.  
  • 33:55 For us with the Arabic language and the  Middle East and North Africa region,  
  • 34:00 because of the issue of diglossia which is a  phenomenon happening with the Arabic language  
  • 34:05 where you'll have a standard form and then  many dialects, this could cause a challenge  
  • 34:11 that we will need to smartly work around. We  will get to discuss it eventually. Thank you.
  • 34:16 [Femi Oke]: Looking forward to it. And Adama Ouane, thank you  
  • 34:19 for your patience. Your connection with language  of instruction, why you care so much about it?
  • 34:31 [Adama Ouane]: I have devoted my whole career to this issue of  
  • 34:39 language of instruction. I've been working for 40  years in education and also together with UNESCO  
  • 34:47 for life learning. This  issue is basic essential and  
  • 34:54 I am very happy to see that the World  Bank is talking about this issue today.
  • 35:01 [Femi Oke]: Minister Ouaro, let's go back to you.  
  • 35:05 The benefits of teaching children in a language  they understand in Burkina Faso, what are they?
  • 35:15 [French interpreter]: 
  • 35:20 There are many advantages to that. The first one  is that that shortens the time of instruction.  
  • 35:30 The primary school is six years in Burkina Faso  normally, but when we teach these children in  
  • 35:38 French which is the official language and one at  the same time, we can shorten the time that takes.  
  • 35:51 Too many mics are on at the same time.
  • 35:57 [Femi Oke]: [email protected],  
  • 35:59 please mute yourself so that the minister can  continue. Please mute this. Or it may well be  
  • 36:07 one of our interpreters. Minister,  please continue. We still hear you.
  • 36:15 [French interpreter]: 
  • 36:18 So this is the first advantage  and benefits. We shorten the time  
  • 36:25 for instructing these children. And there are  economic advantages, development advantage for  
  • 36:31 children and in Burkina Faso, there are many  children who are not in school, who are out of  
  • 36:41 the education system. They don't go to school  or they will never have access to education.  
  • 36:48 And with other countries in the region, like  Mali, Niger, we have put together what we call  
  • 36:58 accelerate education strategy so those children go  to school for a year and then allows them to make  
  • 37:09 up for the gap that they have one year, two years.  So the first year of schooling covers nine months.  
  • 37:19 During the two first months, the instruction is  given them in the mother tongue of the child.  
  • 37:26 And then second month, we start using French.  And the third grade, in fourth grade, we continue  
  • 37:36 teaching other things. So it shows how important  is to use the mother tongue at the beginning.
  • 37:42 [French interpreter]: I am a teacher. I am also researcher,  
  • 37:46 a researcher at the university. It is important  to learn other subjects like Math and others.  
  • 37:56 It depends on the basis that this is done.  For instance, for French, we do that later  
  • 38:09 at the beginning. Later, in the process of  education, we introduce other languages.  
  • 38:17 But if you shift from one language to another too  often, then it will be harder for the children to  
  • 38:24 understand, to learn Maths and other subjects. But  if you teach them in their mother tongue, this is  
  • 38:31 good because they learn better, they feel  more motivated to go to school. Therefore,  
  • 38:40 there are many advantages and it's wonderful to  see that World Bank is interested by that issue.
  • 38:46 [Femi Oke]: Bless you, minister. Appreciate you. I want  
  • 38:49 to go to Cinthya, in Ecuador. So you explained  what a big challenge you have, at least 14  
  • 38:55 different languages, multiple cultures.  How are you ensuring that every child  
  • 39:01 learns to the best of their ability  by cutting out that barrier between  
  • 39:07 a language that they may well be taught in  school and the language that they grew up  
  • 39:10 learning at home. How are you doing that? That's  one of the most popular questions that we're  
  • 39:15 getting on World Bank live right now. It's how  do you do this? How do you do it in Ecuador?
  • 39:19 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: 
  • 39:27 Oh, it's a question very important for  here. Within this framework of action,  
  • 39:37 the Ministry of Education of Ecuador  has been promoting a bilingual policy by  
  • 39:45 on the construction of an inclusive intercultural  bilingual education system, that in addition to  
  • 39:53 focusing on the production of educational  resources in the countries, 14 language,  
  • 40:01 by which it seeks to include the different  cultural and ancestral knowledge for our peoples  
  • 40:09 within the teaching framework. We have  worked on curricular contextualization  
  • 40:15 and in this framework, 14 different national  curricula of intercultural bilingual basic  
  • 40:24 education have been designed. We have a secretary  of the intercultural bilingual education system,  
  • 40:32 aiming and coordinating, managing,  monitoring, and evaluating policy  
  • 40:39 in this area. And we seek to just concentrate  this body to meet territorial needs.  
  • 40:46 We are all focused on research into life cycles  of the various cultures intended to produce  
  • 40:53 educational material that allows for the  understanding of the cultural roots of the nation,  
  • 40:59 with firming belief in importance of children and  adolescence learning the language they master,  
  • 41:06 whether it is their mother tongue or  another culturally close language.
  • 41:12 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: We believe in language as a tool for  
  • 41:16 accessing knowledge. And that language is of  paramount importance because it's facilitate the  
  • 41:24 relationship and position, theme of a subject  in the social spectrum. In the third case,  
  • 41:31 as in the other, one of the results of linguistic  direction will be the permanent reinvention of  
  • 41:40 cultural identities. And it is present still at  this point where they turns plurinational and  
  • 41:49 inter-culturally acquired importance in all areas.  One of them being in the educational sectors.  
  • 42:00 In Ecuador, the importance of children receiving  their education in their language and cultural  
  • 42:07 environment has been understood. And this promise  have been warranty of a constitutional right.  
  • 42:18 In 2016, Ecuador promote and let the  negotiation of the general assembly  
  • 42:26 resolution to proclaim 2019 as International  Year of Indigenous Language and subsequently  
  • 42:35 the proclamation of the indigenous language  2022-2032. This concentrates initiative of  
  • 42:46 great significance and immense symbolic  value seeks to take action at the national  
  • 42:55 and international levels to recovers  and revitalize indigenous language.
  • 43:01 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: In this process, Ecuador has emphasizes the  
  • 43:05 importance of working for indigenous language in  the educational sphere. Since it understand that  
  • 43:14 when a language disappears, what disappears  are the people themselves, their knowledge,  
  • 43:22 their ways of life, their relationship  with the land and their sense of community.  
  • 43:30 During the pandemic, as a result of collaborative  work with UNICEF and Plan International,  
  • 43:40 educational guys we produce in the  14 ancestral language and currently  
  • 43:48 the minister of education is carrying out  preliminary action such as the creation  
  • 43:55 of a registration platform for  intercultural bilingual education units.
  • 44:01 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: The launch of the I  
  • 44:03 Want To Be A Teacher contest for  intercultural bilingual teachers  
  • 44:10 and permanence in the system and choose teaching  in their language. Additionally, we are working  
  • 44:20 on researching the lifecycle of the people and  nationalities to gather information on their  
  • 44:29 history for development of educational materials  that allow bilingual teacher to have, at their  
  • 44:37 disposal. In this way, the different knowledge  of the different cultures can be solved in a  
  • 44:44 mutually complementary manners. A strategic action  of the minister in 2020 was the articulation with  
  • 44:54 the academic for the production of a bilingual  intercultural education repository to offer the  
  • 45:03 public a bibliographic collection with material  of bilingual intercultural education. Thank you.
  • 45:11 [Femi Oke]: Thank you so much, Cinthya.  
  • 45:13 I want to go to the middle eastern north Africa  region where Arabic has spoken widely at home  
  • 45:20 and widely at school. But it's not that  simple. It's a little bit more complicated  
  • 45:26 than that. If you speak Arabic, you know  why. Hanada, it's great to have you here.  
  • 45:32 You have been doing research into  language of instruction long before  
  • 45:36 the World Bank put out their policy paper. So you  are here to give us some tips and suggestions,  
  • 45:43 and also dig a little bit into the research  that you've done. First of all, would you  
  • 45:46 explain that dilemma between Arabic spoken at  home and then Arabic that is spoken at school?
  • 45:51 [Hanada Taha]: 
  • 45:52 Thank you very much, Femi. This is  a great question. So Arabic is a  
  • 45:57 diagnostic language. This means that there  is a standard language that we all learn at.
  • 45:59 [Hanada Taha]: That there is a standard language that we all  
  • 46:03 learn at school, but then at home we speak in  the dialect of that country. Whether Lebanese,  
  • 46:10 Egyptian, Emirati, Saudi, whatever it is. Now  these dialects, I have to say they are direct  
  • 46:17 derivatives of the standard form of the language.  But with a lot of differences, be it phonological  
  • 46:30 sometimes semantics and tactic. So these  differences make it a little bit difficult,  
  • 46:38 sometimes a lot difficult, depending  on the dialect these kids come, from  
  • 46:42 when they go to school, having  heard that specific dialect at home.  
  • 46:47 In school they are immediately thrown into  the lap of, we call it modern standard Arabic,  
  • 46:53 which was the standardized form that all school  materials is based on. And there is no bridging  
  • 47:03 stage or phase done for these kids, which  really lead to many kids falling behind.
  • 47:12 [Hanada Taha]: We can see it in the PIRLS and PISA results on  
  • 47:16 the reading measure that is done. We can see it in  their schooling, on other things, even in TIMMS,  
  • 47:24 the math and the science tests that they do.  So it is not just affecting the Arabic, but  
  • 47:31 it's affecting all learning that is happening in  Arabic language. And it's really something that is  
  • 47:40 not spoken about much. It is something that is not  discussed and just taken until recently, possibly,  
  • 47:48 taken for a fact that you will have a seamless  transition from the home into the school. Knowing  
  • 47:56 that at home also what's happening nowadays,  there is not that early exposure to modern  
  • 48:03 standard Arabic via let's say a TV that they watch  cartoons, children's books that the parents read.
  • 48:11 [Hanada Taha]: So all of this stuff,  
  • 48:13 when it's not happening and they are just immersed  and a dialect that is quite different from the MSA  
  • 48:22 they are exposed to in school, it  is really causing this tension,  
  • 48:26 a lot of tension educational and even at  times it could be cultural, cognitive, it,  
  • 48:34 it could lead to kind of a resistance to learning  modern standard Arabic about the relevance of it.
  • 48:44 [Femi Oke]: We have so many  
  • 48:46 questions about this topic, they're all asking  the same thing. What do you do about that?  
  • 48:52 Between standard Arabic and spoken dialect it can  be so different from written standard language.  
  • 48:58 So then what do you do? What are you seeing  happening in the Middle East and North Africa,  
  • 49:04 dealing with this break between a dialect  spoken at home and the Arabic spoken at school?
  • 49:10 [Hanada Taha]: Thank you. Lovely to speak about solutions  
  • 49:16 [crosstalk 00:49:14] for events. So  there are many things be happening now.  
  • 49:19 So if you, a couple of weeks ago, probably the  World Bank launched this wonderful policy paper  
  • 49:27 it was on advancing the teaching and  learning of Arabic language with the  
  • 49:33 focus on how do you bridge this journey between  the dialects and the modern standard Arabic.
  • 49:40 [Hanada Taha]: Now within the various countries that  
  • 49:43 the discussion is starting to brew in a sense.  I know Jordan has just launched a wonderful work  
  • 49:51 in research, which is something really important  for this region, to base our decisions concerning  
  • 49:58 language of instruction on research, and they are  researching the Glossier and the effect it has  
  • 50:04 on learning. And the solutions are honestly  early exposure to modern standard Arabic via  
  • 50:12 children's books, via cartoons, via the talks, via  listening to it, songs, rhymes, all of that stuff.  
  • 50:22 Making sure that when they enter school, there  is actually a well fleshed out program that is  
  • 50:30 serving as a bridge between the dialects, the home  dialects and the MSA curriculum, and ensuring that  
  • 50:38 the curriculum of the early years uses a lexicon  that is very similar to the child's dialect.
  • 50:47 [Hanada Taha]: It would be still standard form,  
  • 50:49 but it's the simplified standard form rather  than using a very high language that would just  
  • 50:55 go beyond what the kids can do. So teacher  training is another solution that people are  
  • 51:03 looking into now. Better teacher preparation  in colleges and in universities, which has not  
  • 51:11 until today, it has not addressed this issue. So  going into these different paths and steps will  
  • 51:21 be extremely helpful in redeeming this gap between  the dialects and the modern standard Arabic.
  • 51:26 [Femi Oke]: Thank you Hanada. You've been extremely  
  • 51:28 helpful to help us understand the challenges of  language of instruction across the Middle east  
  • 51:33 and North Africa. Stay with us because I'm going  to get all of our round tables speakers to come  
  • 51:39 back at the end of our program because I want to  ask them for a single takeaway that they are going  
  • 51:44 to condense into a sentence. So they're going to  be thinking about that sentence now, for now to  
  • 51:50 the end of the program. Let me bring in Adama.  You may have heard earlier on in our program  
  • 51:57 that we've talked about the political nature of  what the language of instruction is in schools,  
  • 52:04 but we didn't really, explicitly  say why it was political and why  
  • 52:09 it's controversial. Adama you are so well  versed on this topic. Can you break it down?  
  • 52:15 What would be political about the language that  is the official language taught in schools? Why  
  • 52:21 is it problematic? And then how do you work  around that Adama? Nice to see you go ahead.
  • 52:31 [Adama Ouane]: 
  • 52:34 Thank you very much, Amy.  Thank you to the World Bank  
  • 52:39 for this. Excellent. Excellent. It is, as we said,  learning and education - [crosstalk 00:52:45].
  • 52:48 [Femi Oke]: Adama. If I  
  • 52:52 may, can I ask you yet? Sit back. Fantastic.  That is perfect. Yes. Yes. You have a fine face,  
  • 52:54 but we were seeing all of it  (laughs). Okay. Please continue.
  • 52:59 [Adama Ouane]: [Interpretation from French] So  
  • 53:07 I was saying that, of course not everything  is language, but without language education  
  • 53:12 doesn't make any sense. It's really surprising  if not really even disgusting to see that  
  • 53:22 in spite of all the experiments, all that was said  in Britain, there's resistance to adoption. The  
  • 53:32 language of instruction. People say that there's  no language politics, policy in the country.  
  • 53:40 Well, there are ideas and arguments on this, but  at the same time, there's a lot of resistance  
  • 53:49 from parents, from technical  financial partners, from teachers.
  • 53:54 [Adama Ouane]: Very often, we talk about the scare crow  
  • 54:00 when there are so many different languages,  the different sense that urban areas,  
  • 54:05 rural areas. And we talk about  the technical aspects of language  
  • 54:12 as oral tradition. And we talk about the status  of languages that are considered second class. And  
  • 54:22 the population, when they assume that they  will be taught in their own language, I mean,  
  • 54:28 we need to have the materials for that. The  costs of producing all that is enormous.  
  • 54:35 And there is also negative effect  on the students. These opinions  
  • 54:52 are myths and these ideas, wrong  ideas, don't resist the results of  
  • 55:00 research that has been  developed for many years though.
  • 55:03 [Adama Ouane]: We also need to admit that  
  • 55:07 languages are only equal before God and linguists,  because there are languages that are more  
  • 55:13 prestigious that are more attractive, and that  exists because of their presence in the world.  
  • 55:23 It's normal that the poor want to be taught or  [inaudible] in those languages. So languages of  
  • 55:33 precision, but we thought for a long time that  if you taught children in a language that's not  
  • 55:39 a very important language, we are wasting  your time and we are wasting human capital.
  • 55:45 [Adama Ouane]: But in reality, I must say we have asked parents,  
  • 55:52 "Do you want the happiness of your children or  do you want them to learn in this language?"  
  • 55:56 But that's not the issue. The Document of the  World Bank proves clearly that it's not a choice.  
  • 56:03 It's not a and or, or, but it's, and, and,  and- the two issues. We're not trying to  
  • 56:13 exclude any languages, but we want to reinforce  the first language, L1 is fundamental.  
  • 56:20 And then to learn an L2 or other languages for  the needs of communicating with other people or  
  • 56:28 for work and to live. So the students must  acquire their skills in the first language,  
  • 56:39 L1. It is a tremendous asset for their  education, their social inclusion,  
  • 56:46 for their own autonomy and for  the future of society altogether.
  • 56:53 [Femi Oke]: Thank you so much. There are  
  • 56:59 teachers who are really concerned about  knowing, they're watching World Bank live now,  
  • 57:04 they know that their students learn better in  the mother tongue, but it's a challenge about how  
  • 57:12 to make that happen. What would you say to those  parents, those teachers who already know what the  
  • 57:20 policy paper says because they're experiencing  it. What would you say to encourage them?
  • 57:25 [Adama Ouane]: Well, let me desk the switch in English quickly,  
  • 57:29 just to say, that in fact that the teachers are  right to have concern about teaching in languages  
  • 57:38 which are not well equipped technically,  which have gone to have a good tradition,  
  • 57:42 which they don't master themselves that often.  And we know that this is possible. We have to go  
  • 57:50 beyond the language itself. Indeed, a package has  been outlined right now, which are dealing with  
  • 57:57 the pedagogy- method of teaching and learning,  the support, and also creating a whole ecology of  
  • 58:05 learning, which facilitate acquisition and further  learning into this. So the question is really that  
  • 58:14 we can teach in any language provided that we have  the right method, that we have the right material  
  • 58:22 and that also we give the right motivation  provincial grant for acquiring basic knowledge.
  • 58:29 [Femi Oke]: Mm (affirmative). I  
  • 58:31 have one more question. Thank you, Adama.  I have one more question. I'm going to ask  
  • 58:37 Vista Cynthia, and also to Minister Rauru.  And this one question is, but I just want a  
  • 58:43 very simple answer because it's a great question.  And it really speaks to the heart of the matter.  
  • 58:49 Why are countries still teaching in the  language of colonizers? Why is that happening?  
  • 58:57 I'm a little too enthusiastic about that question  (laughs). Cynthia, I just want an immediate,  
  • 59:02 no filtered response to why it's 2021. Why  are we still teaching you the language of  
  • 59:10 colonizers who were roaming around the world  in the 18th and 19th centuries? Cynthia.
  • 59:17 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: Or it's a question  
  • 59:22 is very important because Ecuador is colonized  with Spanish and here live any nationalities and  
  • 59:36 use different language to work, two expressions  and 14 language in this region and a different  
  • 59:48 region in 17 millions in our country.  It's very difficult, but now I need to,  
  • 01:00:03 to live in this, different cultures is very  important for Minister and President in Ecuador.
  • 01:00:14 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 01:00:15 Thank you. Let me just bring in. I do notice  the irony of, I am speaking in the language of  
  • 01:00:20 English (laughs), I hear the  irony in everything I say. So-
  • 01:00:26 [Cinthya Game Vargas]: And English is the second  
  • 01:00:28 language more in Ecuador, really a language and  everybody learn English in the school and know,  
  • 01:00:43 learn this language of population as different  culture [crosstalk] It's very important.
  • 01:00:49 [Femi Oke]: Yeah. It's so important and I'm  
  • 01:00:51 so glad that this is now a trend. It's a movement  that we are very aware of. Let me go back to the  
  • 01:00:55 minister who has this mission in the title of  his job. It's in his job title, he's a teacher,  
  • 01:01:02 he's an educator. Minister, I'm going to ask you  this very quickly. Why is Africa still teaching  
  • 01:01:11 many countries in the language of colonizers, and  not in the language of the people who live there?  
  • 01:01:21 Go ahead. Very briefly though, Minister,  because I have to move on to round table two.
  • 01:01:24 [French interpreter]: [Interpretation from French]  
  • 01:01:31 It's due to the past, of course. Education has  had the clear objective, which was to train people  
  • 01:01:45 in order to help the colonizers in what they  were doing- translators. And then it went over to  
  • 01:01:54 education. But there is a basic difference among  countries. In Ecuador, they speak 14 language. We  
  • 01:02:05 have 69 languages and dialects. And then we have  the difference between dialects and languages.  
  • 01:02:16 And we can say, well we  have more than 69 languages
  • 01:02:21 [French interpreter]: And having to choose one language among 69  
  • 01:02:28 is going to create frustration and we have to take  that into account also. We live in a globalized  
  • 01:02:37 world so you need to have a common language  but we still are in favor of bilingualism,  
  • 01:02:46 but at the same time, those different languages  have to be codified in order to be used today.
  • 01:02:54 [Femi Oke]: Right.
  • 01:02:55 [French interpreter]: 25 languages are being use in  
  • 01:02:57 a non-formal education. We have bilingual  teaching, but there is still work to do.  
  • 01:03:05 We can all give up on French or  English or Mandarin, or in favor of one  
  • 01:03:13 national language. We can all do that, but we have  to teach and learn in those national languages,  
  • 01:03:22 but we need a language to be able to work in  and to live in a globalized [crosstalk] world.
  • 01:03:28 [Femi Oke]: All right, merci Minister.  
  • 01:03:30 Okay. So that was round table. Number one, for  the challenges and how different countries,  
  • 01:03:37 different regions are approaching language  of instruction for their young people.  
  • 01:03:41 Round table number two is going to be looking  strictly at implementation. How do you get this  
  • 01:03:48 done? So, let me say hello to your  panelists for round table number two.  
  • 01:03:54 We have a Minister grammar, Luca, we have  professor Dina Campo, and we have Dia.  
  • 01:04:02 Nice to see all of you. I am going to get you  to do your own introductions very briefly,  
  • 01:04:08 and then also connect yourself in your brief  introduction to language of instruction,  
  • 01:04:12 why it is important to you, Minister Luca first of  all. Nice to see you, please introduce yourself.
  • 01:04:18 [Geremew Huluka]: Okay. Thank you. Geremew  
  • 01:04:23 Huluka, State Minister of Education  in Ethiopia. So this issue is very  
  • 01:04:28 important in the Ethiopian context because it  is one of the multilingual society. Thank you.
  • 01:04:36 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 01:04:37 Professor Campo. Nice to  see you introduce yourself.
  • 01:04:40 [Dina Ocampo]: Thank you again. [foreign language]  
  • 01:04:47 Hello to everyone. I'm Dina Ocampo. I am a  faculty member of the UV College of Education,  
  • 01:04:53 University of the Philippines. But before this,  I worked for four years in the Department of  
  • 01:05:00 Education as vice minister for curriculum  and instruction. And it was my job to  
  • 01:05:08 institutionalize mother tongue based,  multilingual education in the Philippines.
  • 01:05:14 [Femi Oke]: Nice to have you. Dhir, the reason why you're here  
  • 01:05:18 is in the title of your job title. So I'm going to  get you to introduce yourself and then everybody  
  • 01:05:23 will go, "Ah, I know why he's in that round  table panel." Go ahead, Dhir. Nice to see you.
  • 01:05:28 [Dhir Jhingran]: Hello everyone. I'm Dhir Jhingran,  
  • 01:05:32 founder and director of the Language  and Learning Foundation in India or LLF.  
  • 01:05:37 LLF was founded with the vision that all children  will have strong, foundational skill in their  
  • 01:05:42 home and additional languages and develop to their  full potential. So we are very closely linked with  
  • 01:05:49 today, evenings language of instruction agenda.
  • 01:05:51 [Femi Oke]: All right,  
  • 01:05:52 great. Okay. Minister, let me start with you.  Ethiopia has multiple languages, multiple ethnic  
  • 01:06:02 groups and so mother tongue instruction  is incredibly important, very important.  
  • 01:06:08 How have you managed it in Ethiopia?  What is the template that you can  
  • 01:06:12 share with other countries who also have  multiple languages within their country?  
  • 01:06:26 Minister, do unmute yourself.
  • 01:06:27 [Geremew Huluka]: 
  • 01:06:31 Sorry, sorry. Yeah. As you know, Ethiopia  is the second most populous in Africa and  
  • 01:06:42 linguistically, as well as culturally it is the  most diversified society. We do have more than 80  
  • 01:06:48 languages. Of course, before 1991, we do have  only one language of instruction in Ethiopia.  
  • 01:06:57 So 1991 change of government from unitary to  the federal system has brought opportunity  
  • 01:07:04 to use different languages as a medium of  instruction in Ethiopia. Particularly the 1994  
  • 01:07:12 Ethiopian Education Training Policy,  as well as the 1995 Constitution, as  
  • 01:07:20 given guarantee for the regions nations  and the nationalities to decide their  
  • 01:07:26 language of instruction, as well as  the official language by themselves.
  • 01:07:30 [Geremew Huluka]: So this, this opportunity helped Ethiopia to have  
  • 01:07:37 different language of instructions.  Like for example, currently we do have  
  • 01:07:43 30 languages in which we can teach different  subjects and the 50 state languages, which we give  
  • 01:07:50 as a subject matter. And among this 17 of them  are given from first grade to 12th grade. In  
  • 01:07:58 Ethiopian context, first grade means, age of  seven and 12th grade means yeah, [inaudible].
  • 01:08:06 [Geremew Huluka]: 
  • 01:08:09 We are successful in such ways, we are doing  our best. We do have constituent back as well as  
  • 01:08:18 policy issue. Of course Ethiopia has endorsed it  for the first time, the language policy of the  
  • 01:08:26 country. And we are revising our educational  policy now. And we are seeing in that how to  
  • 01:08:34 manage these media of instruction, particularly  for the motherland language or mother tongue.
  • 01:08:42 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 01:08:44 Thank you for this. I'll come back to you.  Let me just go to, Professor. You spearheaded  
  • 01:08:52 lots of efforts to get language of instruction,  to match the language that children were learning  
  • 01:08:59 at home and could speak at home. Can you tell us  about that? Because again, people want to know.
  • 01:09:03 [Femi Oke]: This week at   home. Can you tell us about that? Because again,  people want to know the how, how do you do this?
  • 01:09:06 [Dina Ocampo]: I'll try to do it very quickly. The Philippines  
  • 01:09:10 has over 170 languages, and in this number of  languages, we obviously there are languages that  
  • 01:09:20 are spoken by very many and languages that  are spoken by very small numbers of people.  
  • 01:09:26 For example, certain indigenous groups would speak  unique languages that only their group do use in  
  • 01:09:34 daily life. So there's a very large variance  of numbers, of speakers and so on. It began  
  • 01:09:44 with many research over decades, and it was always  a pendulum swinging between going to English,  
  • 01:09:52 and using Filipino even as our national language  for learning. And then now at the moment we are at  
  • 01:10:00 multilingual education, we are using 19 languages  of education from kindergarten to grade three  
  • 01:10:09 and many indigenous groups  have made their own versions.
  • 01:10:13 [Dina Ocampo]: We call this process contextualization Femi.  
  • 01:10:16 What we do, what the department has done is  to create materials that are prototypes, which  
  • 01:10:24 then different groups or different language groups  will now contextualize or localize into their own  
  • 01:10:31 languages, or better even is that they create  their own. So one of the things that I can share  
  • 01:10:40 is that the implementation is very uneven.  There is an effort. There's a huge effort,  
  • 01:10:48 and it's a continuing effort to improve the  implementation and to improve the products  
  • 01:10:55 that are needed for children, to be able to learn  for teachers, to be able to teach and all that,  
  • 01:11:00 but implementation in such a large country and  with many diverse languages can be a challenge.
  • 01:11:07 [Dina Ocampo]: Some of the things that had to be done were  
  • 01:11:12 mentioned in the report, actually, ours is a bit  different. We don't deal with only two languages.  
  • 01:11:20 As I read the report, I noticed that the  emphasis was really on a couple of languages,  
  • 01:11:25 but the Philippines situation is different. We  have the local language or the mother tongue,  
  • 01:11:30 and then there is Filipino, and then  there is English. And I was listening  
  • 01:11:35 to the conversation about why teach  English at all, or which is one of the  
  • 01:11:41 language of one of our colonizer,  because we had two or three.
  • 01:11:44 [Femi Oke]: I saw you  
  • 01:11:45 laughing. When that question  came up, I saw you chucking.
  • 01:11:49 [Dina Ocampo]: And I was part of the research group that actually  
  • 01:11:54 asked parents and asked communities about that.  And this is way back, like over a decade ago.  
  • 01:12:01 And I've been doing this for very long as well,  just like Mr. Adama Ouane. And, we asked them  
  • 01:12:12 and they said that they were willing to  learn, because language politics is also very  
  • 01:12:17 interesting, dominant languages, large groups of  people speaking, also very established languages.
  • 01:12:24 [Femi Oke]: And also what  
  • 01:12:25 might parents be keen to know,  what might get my child ahead?
  • 01:12:30 [Dina Ocampo]: Yes.
  • 01:12:31 [Femi Oke]: If they speak a colonizer language,  
  • 01:12:35 are they going to do better? Are they going to  do better in the world? I know that there are  
  • 01:12:39 situations in Nigeria where little kids growing  up only speak English. They don't. And they're  
  • 01:12:47 in Nigeria and I'm so furious. I lost my mother  tongue because my parents were immigrants and they  
  • 01:12:52 were scared to teach me Yoruba. They were scared  that I would have an accent, which is not true,  
  • 01:12:59 we all us linguists know, that's not true.  So this idea that, that language two,  
  • 01:13:06 that language two is going to get you ahead.  That's very powerful, right, Professor.
  • 01:13:09 [Dina Ocampo]: Yes, I call that  
  • 01:13:13 in one of the things I've written, the  language of economic and social mobility,  
  • 01:13:19 but you know, there's another end to it,  which I think is equally important is that  
  • 01:13:24 people love their language. Their languages.  And so the notion of having only Filipino  
  • 01:13:32 as the Philippines language in schools was also  not attractive to them. So, when the discussions  
  • 01:13:38 with parents went on, one of the things that came  up was that if our language were taught in school,  
  • 01:13:47 which let's say Cebuano or Ilocano, one of the  Philippine language is taught in school. And then  
  • 01:13:53 eventually the children learn also Filipino. And  there's no way they're giving up English because  
  • 01:13:59 they want their children to do that. Then the  policy has to listen to these aspirations as well.  
  • 01:14:07 And, that's the kind of complexity that  we are dealing with in the Philippines.
  • 01:14:13 [Dina Ocampo]: And I'm sure that many countries around this  
  • 01:14:16 table, they're dealing with that as  well. So mapping that understanding  
  • 01:14:23 that children will learn better. Absolutely.  If they learn in the language that they know  
  • 01:14:29 in their heart, in their minds, but also that  parents have an aspiration that we must listen to.  
  • 01:14:37 And then there is an identity as a nation  that was also important for policy makers.  
  • 01:14:46 With the work we had to try and  work with teacher development,  
  • 01:14:52 we needed to work on instructional materials  development, assessment was the killer,  
  • 01:14:59 assessment continues to be the most tricky part.  I see Hanada nodding her head because that's  
  • 01:15:05 really where the most difficult part is. And  that's still a work in progress where I'm from.
  • 01:15:13 [Femi Oke]: Professor
  • 01:15:14 [Dina Ocampo]: the lack of, of reading material. If I may, just  
  • 01:15:20 last point, the lack of reading material, we don't  teach children to read for reading’ sake, right.
  • 01:15:27 [Dina Ocampo]: We teach children to read, to make themselves  
  • 01:15:32 happy, for them, to love themselves, to love  everything that comes with identity. But it  
  • 01:15:38 also means being able to relate to others,  understand the lives of other communities.  
  • 01:15:45 And that comes through books for children who  are far and of course, multimedia and so on. So,  
  • 01:15:52 not having sufficient reading material  in an ambitious language program  
  • 01:15:59 will be one of the downfalls of such a program  as well. So it's very important to prepare  
  • 01:16:06 those. And, I'm not talking about textbooks.  I'm talking about happy books, trade books.
  • 01:16:11 [Femi Oke]: Reading for fun, you know when  
  • 01:16:13 the kids sit in the corner and they're just lost  in a book, what language is that book written in?
  • 01:16:18 [Dina Ocampo]: That's why we're teaching them to read.
  • 01:16:21 [Femi Oke]: Yeah,  
  • 01:16:22 professor, thank you. I love the way that you  describe why we read. I sometimes forget that.  
  • 01:16:29 I think it's a utilitarian process and  I forget how much as a little one. I  
  • 01:16:33 love reading. Oh my goodness. I said, thank  you so much. You're not dismissed yet.  
  • 01:16:43 I'm going to come back to you, but just bring in  Dhir because the language and learning foundation  
  • 01:16:49 has done a lot of work on  this, and has evidence on  
  • 01:16:53 language one. That mother tongue instruction for  young people. What can you share with us today?
  • 01:16:58 [Dhir Jhingran]: Thank you, Femi. We work with in  
  • 01:17:02 collaboration with government state governments,  because we want to bring about transformation at  
  • 01:17:07 scale in the teaching and learning process,  get children's languages in the classroom.  
  • 01:17:12 We work on three major dimensions. When we work  with state governments. The first is continuous  
  • 01:17:18 professional development. Within the government  education systems, teachers, teacher educators,  
  • 01:17:23 master trainers, educational administrators.  Helping create awareness, commitment, and capacity  
  • 01:17:31 to include children's languages and on  multilingual education. Because the challenges  
  • 01:17:35 here are not about just knowledge and skills.  These are beliefs and attitudes about non-dominant  
  • 01:17:41 languages, whether they should find place in  the classroom, about purity of use of language,  
  • 01:17:46 about use of mixed language, et cetera. So what we  do is we run blended courses of varying durations  
  • 01:17:55 in multiple modes, online, synchronous,  asynchronous, pure learning interaction,  
  • 01:18:01 face-to-face workshops, sharing resources over  WhatsApp, et cetera, handouts printed materials.
  • 01:18:06 [Dhir Jhingran]: And our courses vary from about  
  • 01:18:09 just five hours to six weeks. And they're usually  led by the government, an academic institution in  
  • 01:18:15 the government. So, that's our first pillar  of work. The second is demonstration programs  
  • 01:18:21 to be creating a proof of concept that how L1  can be effectively used to improve learning  
  • 01:18:28 at school. And this is done in collaboration with  governments, again in 50, 100, 200 or 500 schools.  
  • 01:18:35 The third pillar of our work  is what we call system reform.  
  • 01:18:40 I have myself worked in the government  for 25 years. So we don't actually go to  
  • 01:18:44 the government and say, we are here  to reform you. We use our work of-
  • 01:18:50 [Femi Oke]: That would not go down well, Dhir.
  • 01:18:52 [Dhir Jhingran]: I know. So, what we do  
  • 01:18:54 is because of the professional development  work and demonstration programs, we sort  
  • 01:18:59 of get an entry into things like pre-service  teacher education. When teachers are recruited  
  • 01:19:06 to be able to bring in issues of linguistic  diversity and multilingual education there.  
  • 01:19:12 How do you adjust learning outcome frameworks  and assessments? Which was just mentioned  
  • 01:19:17 to ensure that children's languages are taken  into account. And for example, language portals  
  • 01:19:23 in recruitment of teachers, so that teachers know  children's languages. So these are approaches  
  • 01:19:29 to use these three pillars of work to try  and bring about change at scale. Thank you.
  • 01:19:34 [Femi Oke]: One of the things  
  • 01:19:35 that the professor mentioned Dhir, and I really  like that, she was very honest, was talking about  
  • 01:19:41 the roadblocks to implementation, for instance,  not having enough books. Once you start teaching  
  • 01:19:47 in language one in the mother tongue,  but maybe you don't have enough material.  
  • 01:19:53 What are the challenges that you can see?  What are they, because when you implement,  
  • 01:19:57 when you're doing implementation,  you want to learn from other people's  
  • 01:20:01 mistakes. What are the mistakes that you've  seen that you want to warn our viewers about?
  • 01:20:07 [Dhir Jhingran]: Yeah,  
  • 01:20:10 I think children's materials are absolutely  crucial, fun, interesting, simple materials. And,  
  • 01:20:17 that's crucial for learning as well. I think the  mistake that many civil society organizations do  
  • 01:20:24 is to just make good materials. What's more  important. And governments are looking for is,  
  • 01:20:32 are these materials linked to the curriculums,  to the learning outcomes? And therefore it's  
  • 01:20:37 very important because we to introduce  L1's students strong and home languages  
  • 01:20:42 formally in the classroom, is to be able to  design materials that align with the curriculum  
  • 01:20:48 and learning outcomes. And to be able to show  that this will result in improved learning.
  • 01:20:53 [Femi Oke]: 
  • 01:20:54 I want to bring back the minister for education  in Ethiopia. I have a question for you. It's such  
  • 01:21:00 a great question. A plus for this question  on World Bank live, how does Ethiopia manage  
  • 01:21:06 national exams at the end of secondary  school with so many languages being taught?
  • 01:21:10 [Geremew Huluka]: 
  • 01:21:13 Oh, actually this country school is taught  in English, by the way. It's not by, okay.
  • 01:21:21 [Geremew Huluka]: [crosstalk]
  • 01:21:22 [Femi Oke]: So all of  
  • 01:21:23 that wonderful implementation you were  telling me about stops at what age? 10 11.
  • 01:21:28 [Geremew Huluka]: Yeah. And some-
  • 01:21:32 [Femi Oke]: And the thinking behind   that minister is what the, by that  time you feel the kids are confident  
  • 01:21:36 in English, that they can then do their  entire secondary school in English?
  • 01:21:41 [Geremew Huluka]: Yeah. They learn all the subjects  
  • 01:21:45 in secondary school in English. They can  learn their language as a subject. So then-
  • 01:21:53 [Femi Oke]: This explains to me why I have so many  
  • 01:21:56 extraordinary conversations with Ethiopians,  because they've had to learn English from  
  • 01:21:59 secondary school. They have to speak English from  secondary school. Do you think that this may well  
  • 01:22:06 hinder the learning of secondary school  students? If they have to learn in English?
  • 01:22:12 [Geremew Huluka]: Yeah. The that's one of the challenges we have in  
  • 01:22:15 Ethiopia by the way. It was a debate. Some people  argue that our students should have strong English  
  • 01:22:29 and others argue that no, they have to  have knowledge in their mother tongue.
  • 01:22:34 [Femi Oke]: Who's winning that argument minister?
  • 01:22:37 [Geremew Huluka]: Yeah. Different individuals like  
  • 01:22:41 experts, actually. The government commitment  is high in improving the mother tongue. And  
  • 01:22:49 also we are working on how to improve  English it is maybe separate project. We are  
  • 01:22:56 planning to intervene, English communication  in middle school, like seventh and eight grade.
  • 01:23:01 [Femi Oke]: How powerful are you, minister?  
  • 01:23:03 Could you just say, let's teach secondary  school in language one. Can you do that? No.  
  • 01:23:12 Professor on camera is like no, that's not going  to happen. You're just making trouble moderator.
  • 01:23:18 [Geremew Huluka]: No.  
  • 01:23:23 We do have document, which we call education  roadmap. That roadmap recommends us to continue  
  • 01:23:33 teaching our students up even secondary  school in their mother tongue. So Ethiopia  
  • 01:23:39 in the future will move to this recommendation. We  don't have problem doing this, but it's a question  
  • 01:23:47 of capacity. And, there are so many challenges to  do this. Otherwise, we do have such commitment.
  • 01:23:53 [Femi Oke]: All right. Wonderful. Round table number one  
  • 01:23:58 and round table number two, here is your challenge  in a sentence. How do we move and make progress  
  • 01:24:08 with youngsters, so that language one  is a language that they are taught in  
  • 01:24:14 when they go to school for the first time? It is  a sentence. A hashtag is language of learning.  
  • 01:24:22 So your sentence, if it's great enough,  people will be tweeting it out. Minister. Oh,  
  • 01:24:28 I'm volunteering you to  start. What is your sentence?
  • 01:24:31 [Geremew Huluka]: 
  • 01:24:32 Oh, okay. It might be long  sentence. Let me try it.
  • 01:24:35 [Femi Oke]: It's not a long sentence.  
  • 01:24:39 You not get to trick me. It's a short sentence.
  • 01:24:43 [Geremew Huluka]: Any how, allowing children to learn  
  • 01:24:48 with their mother tongue is not only pedagogical  issue, but also the right of the Children.
  • 01:24:53 [Femi Oke]: Fantastic. Short sentence.  
  • 01:24:55 I love it. Thank you, minister, professor  Ocampo. Your sentence. That is tweetable is what
  • 01:25:03 [Dina Ocampo]: I think my sentence would be,  
  • 01:25:07 show that it works and then extend it. That's  my sentence. Show, prove that it works.
  • 01:25:12 [Femi Oke]: Proves that it works.
  • 01:25:14 [Dina Ocampo]: 
  • 01:25:15 Yeah. And that's honest to  goodness assessment that we need.
  • 01:25:18 [Femi Oke]: Very practical  
  • 01:25:19 as well. Dhir, what is your sentence? Go ahead.
  • 01:25:22 [Dhir Jhingran]: We need to work on two panel tracks. First design  
  • 01:25:26 programs that are highly contextualized,  and sort of boutique mother tongue based  
  • 01:25:31 multilingual education, but alongside because  the scale is so large, develop pragmatic. Even  
  • 01:25:37 if imperfect solutions for including children's  L1 in instruction in a variety of ways.
  • 01:25:42 [Femi Oke]: Dhir, this is a paragraph. I can't tweet it,  
  • 01:25:45 but I love the paragraph. All right. Round table.  Number one. Welcome back. Lovely to see you,  
  • 01:25:50 Minister Ouaro and Burkina Faso.  One sentence. You're an educator.  
  • 01:25:54 I know you can do it. One sentence. Go ahead.  
  • 01:26:00 Unmute yourself Minister. What is your  one sentence to help us move forward  
  • 01:26:07 with language of instruction?  Make progress a single sentence.
  • 01:26:11 [French interpreter]: I know it seems a one.  
  • 01:26:17 We have all the skills. We have everything that  we need to do that, but we need to be supported,  
  • 01:26:25 if we need the financial support from our partners  who include national languages in schools.
  • 01:26:36 [Femi Oke]: Cynthia,  
  • 01:26:37 I know you can rise to this  challenge. Your sentence is what?  
  • 01:26:46 Is Cynthia still here? Does did she disappear,  
  • 01:26:48 because it was too much pressure? Let me  move on to Hanada. Hi, Hanada professor.
  • 01:26:53 Hanada Taha-Endowed: Hi there.
  • 01:26:54 [Femi Oke]: Go Ahead.
  • 01:26:55 Hanada Taha-Endowed: All right. So early effective and  
  • 01:26:58 smart exposure to modern standard Arabic would  pave the way to personal and national growth.
  • 01:27:05 [Femi Oke]: Very nice. Adama You spent your lifetime working  
  • 01:27:11 on this and now I'm giving you one sentence,  but I know you can do it. Go ahead. Adama.
  • 01:27:16 [Adama Ouane]: Quality education for all  
  • 01:27:18 is possible by increasing considerably  the number of language of instruction.
  • 01:27:23 [Femi Oke]: Yes, very good. All right. I believe I've  
  • 01:27:26 gone through everybody and now I promise you that  I would return to Jaime. Jaime I'm fascinated to  
  • 01:27:33 hear your reflections on what we've been talking  about for the last almost 90 minutes Jaime.
  • 01:27:38 [Jaime Saavedra]: Oh, thank you very much Femi  
  • 01:27:40 for your fantastic collaboration. I have to say  first that the executive summary of this report  
  • 01:27:48 will be accessible, will be translated, will be  in English, in Spanish in French in Portuguese,  
  • 01:27:52 and Arabic, in Swahili, in Hausa,  in Wolof and in the next few days or  
  • 01:28:00 weeks, it will be in Urdu and in  Quechua. And I'm just asking the team.  
  • 01:28:04 I'm just WhatsApping them, if we can  do it in Yoruba before you ask me.
  • 01:28:08 [Femi Oke]: Thank you! [Inaudible]
  • 01:28:11 [Adama Ouane]: In Fulfulde also.
  • 01:28:12 [Jaime Saavedra]: Okay. Okay. We'll-
  • 01:28:16 [Femi Oke]: Oh, You started a riot now,
  • 01:28:19 [Jaime Saavedra]: Right, but actually I think it's a very important  
  • 01:28:22 point. Because we usually translate to Spanish,  French, Arabic, but not to these other languages,  
  • 01:28:30 so that's something that we need to think  about. Why is that we're doing it? So this  
  • 01:28:35 has been an extremely fantastic conversation.  Let me mention just three things. One is that  
  • 01:28:41 it's a difficult balance because it's about  balancing politics, the labor market, needs  
  • 01:28:49 that parents see for their children, but  it's also about national identity is about  
  • 01:28:55 that kids should feel that they're included in  school. And it's also about kids being happy.  
  • 01:29:03 So we need to balance the whole thing.  For kids to be happy, they need to feel  
  • 01:29:07 included in school. And that will most likely  happen if they're taught in the right language.
  • 01:29:13 [Jaime Saavedra]: So we need to balance all those things  
  • 01:29:15 and in order to take the right decisions. Second  point, and this is great, that several emphasize  
  • 01:29:20 that it's not a choice. This is not about let's  learn this language or this other language. No,  
  • 01:29:25 we can learn what we call L1. The national, the  language at home that will build the foundations  
  • 01:29:34 to learn better. Not only another language,  could be another two or three languages,  
  • 01:29:40 and learn other materials. So it's  really not a choice. But third,  
  • 01:29:44 we need to recognize it is a challenge. It  isn't that easy because as many were saying,  
  • 01:29:49 this is creating a whole ecosystem. It's  not just the books or the reading material.  
  • 01:29:53 It's great to have that. And we need to have  that. We need to have the prepared teachers.
  • 01:29:56 [Jaime Saavedra]: We need to have the whole ecosystem  
  • 01:29:58 that supports teaching in more than one language.  Actually, that's what we're aiming at. It's  
  • 01:30:05 if there's language diversity, let's embrace that  language diversity, let's tackle the issue from  
  • 01:30:13 the perspective of education system challenges,  but then use this to build a better future for  
  • 01:30:20 our children. I think we have a huge challenge in  our hands, but we really need to make progress on  
  • 01:30:29 this agenda. That has been the lifetime work  of Adama, for example and of professor Ocampo.  
  • 01:30:40 But it's great that we have people that have this  as a challenge for their lives, because really  
  • 01:30:44 this will be one way in which we can really  change the lives of our children and give them  
  • 01:30:50 a better future. So thanks to everyone for this,  but this is just one small step and a long journey  
  • 01:30:56 that we'll need to continue in order to improve  our education systems. Thank you very much Femi.
  • 01:31:02 [Femi Oke]: Thank you Jaime, [crosstalk 01:31:05]  
  • 01:31:04 As well. Appreciate that speakers for fantastic  round table. Number one, round table. Number two.  
  • 01:31:11 World Bank live audience. You are on fire. I love  your questions, did you hear me feed them all the  
  • 01:31:16 way through our conversation? Thank you everybody  for taking part. This wraps up loud and clear,  
  • 01:31:22 teach children in a language they use and  understand. Thanks for watching. Take care.
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Dr Grace A. OBAIGBONA

Interesting question on the use of official languages...
Wed, 07/14/2021 - 09:37
Peter Okware

Simply because that is the language we use examinations
Wed, 07/14/2021 - 09:37
Sare

Question for the Professor- why does Philippines only implement it till grade 3? Learning levels usually suffer if such an early transition is made. Has it worked for Phillipines?
Wed, 07/14/2021 - 09:43
Peter Okware

We call them readers
Wed, 07/14/2021 - 09:48
Ashwani kumar

How we can make maths interesting subject in early days??
Wed, 07/14/2021 - 09:54

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