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Gender Equality and Development +10: Looking Back to Spring Forward

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Did you know that 2022 marks 10 years since the publication of the World Bank Group’s World Development Report 2012: Gender Equality and Development? Over the last decade, progress has been achieved in several key areas: maternal mortality has decreased by around 10 percent. Three quarters of all girls are now in secondary school. The Women, Business and the Law index shows that women’s economic rights have improved, and there are now more women than ever before in national parliaments across the globe. However, significant gender gaps persist in labor force participation, pay, child and elder care responsibilities, and leadership roles. Globally, violence against women and girls persists as well. The COVID-19 global pandemic has further exacerbated these longstanding challenges.

The World Bank Group’s yearlong Gender Equality and Development +10: Accelerate Equality initiative will launch with this kick-off “Looking Back to Spring Forward” event, which will explore the important progress made and lessons learned from the implementation of policy reforms and projects over the last 10 years. The discussion also will center on new ideas and aspirations for the next 10 years. Panelists will reflect on the implications of some of the most pressing global challenges on the prospects for achieving gender equality.

Use the following timestamps to navigate different sections of the video.

00:00 Welcome! Gender Equality and Development +10
04:35 Opening remarks: Looking back to spring forward
11:49 Gender equality into the center of development policy dialogue
19:53 Improving productivity of women-owned enterprises
28:23 Effective approaches to changing social norms regarding the role of women
34:37 Curbing domestic violence and combatting gender-based violence
41:28 What is the World Bank doing to accelerate gender equality?
44:43 How to mobilize revenue and prioritize expenditure in a gender-responsive manner
51:47 Making public finance responsive to gender issues
58:39 Gender equality and women’s empowerment at the core of national strategies
1:02:10 Partnerships: Helping governments in client countries to narrow gender gaps
1:06:55 Integrating gender equality into fiscal policy and budget analysis
1:11:57 Better utilization of women’s human capital in the private sector
1:17:03 The role of the international sector in gender equality and women’s empowerment
1:26:44 Supporting women’s and girls’ empowerment more effectively
1:33:04 Addressing social norms and the transformation toward gender equality
1:42:03 Closing remarks

Speakers

Mari Pangestu

Former World Bank Managing Director of Development Policy and Partnerships

@Mari_Pangestu
Sri Mulyani Indrawati

Minister of Finance, Indonesia
Zainab Ahmed

Minister of Finance, Budget and National Planning, Nigeria

@ZShamsuna
Anila Denaj

Current Member of Parliament and Former Minister of Finance, Albania

@AnilaDenaj
Ferid Belhaj

Vice President, Middle East and North Africa, World Bank

@WorldBankMENA
Steven J. Puig

CEO, Banco BHD
Hademine ould Saleck

Imam and Chief of Mahadra in the Ben Abass Mosque, Mauritania
Deepa Narayan

Author and Social Scientist, India

@deepavop

Moderator

Mamta Murthi

Vice President for Human Development, World Bank

@MamtaMurthi

Read the transcript

00:04 [Mamta Murthi]: Hello, everyone.
00:05 I'm Mamta Murthi, the vice president for human development at the World Bank.
00:11 I'm really delighted to welcome everyone to this very special event today.
00:19 A few words about why we are having this event.
00:22 10 years ago we launched a seminal publication, our World Development Report and it focused
00:29 on gender and development, and it argued that how households interact with markets and institutions,
00:38 whether formal or informal, is key to understanding gender inequality in all its dimensions.
00:45 [Mamta Murthi]: It presented a framework which could explain
00:50 why progress was faster in some areas of gender inequality than in others, and most importantly
00:58 it argued that gender equality was an important development objective in its own right, as
01:06 well as being smart economics.
01:09 It argued that it's smart economics to focus on gender because it not only helps women,
01:14 but it helps with other development objectives and helps break the intergenerational transmission
01:21 of poverty.
01:24 It developed tools as well to understand what's driving differences in gender outcomes across
01:31 many domains, and it argued for policy interventions as well as broader societal actions to improve
01:39 gender equality in order to support development outcomes for all.
01:43 [Mamta Murthi]: Now that was 10 years ago, and the purpose
01:47 of this event is to launch a year-long reflection.
01:51 We're calling it Gender Equality and Development +10, the Accelerating Equality Initiative.
01:59 And the purpose is to understand what progress has been made in the past 10 years, what lessons
02:05 have been learned, identify remaining challenges and, of course, build partnerships so that
02:12 as the World Bank Group, we can work with others and support further progress towards
02:16 gender equality.
02:17 [Mamta Murthi]: Now a few words on what's happened since 2012.
02:23 Well, women and girls and boys have seen significant gains and two areas stand out, particularly
02:30 education and health.
02:33 I would also say that in many countries, women have gained political representation and equality
02:38 under the law.
02:40 We also have a growing body of evidence that shows that in both communities and companies
02:46 where women are in decision-making roles, outcomes are better.
02:51 That's on the positive side, but progress has been uneven and there are many areas that
02:57 remain.
02:59 I would like to highlight economic opportunities for women, especially labor force participation
03:05 which has not materialized to the same extent.
03:09 I should also mention gender-based violence, and this pandemic has unleashed a huge scale
03:17 of gender-based violence, and representation and leadership remains a challenge.
03:23 [Mamta Murthi]: So here today, we would like to discuss what
03:29 is it that we need to do to address some of these stubborn gender gaps, including those
03:34 that have been exposed, rather savagely exposed, by the pandemic?
03:39 We know that this will require a holistic approach and it will require partnership across
03:45 many institutions.
03:47 First of all, governments, but also the private sector, financial institutions, multi-lateral
03:53 agencies and, perhaps most importantly, local governments, NGOs, women's movements and civil
04:00 society organizations.
04:02 [Mamta Murthi]: I'm going to start us off on this discussion.
04:05 We have a very exciting group of panelists and to start with we will have our managing
04:10 director of development policy and partnership, Mari Pangestu.
04:14 Let me just make one technical note.
04:16 Please use the chat function to participate.
04:20 We have a host of people who are online speaking four languages to respond to your questions.
04:26 So with no further ado, let me welcome Mari Pangestu.
04:30 Mari, the floor is yours for opening remarks.
04:33 Welcome.
04:34 [Mari Pangestu]: Thank you, Mamta.
04:37 I'm really delighted to open this event and I want to thank all the distinguished speakers
04:43 that have joined us today.
04:46 And as Mamta mentioned, this is really a special event because 2022 marks 10 years since the
04:56 publication of the World Banks Group World Development Report on Gender Equality and
05:01 Development, which was a very seminal report, as Mamta has already explained, because it
05:09 really established gender equality as a development priority and smart economic policy.
05:16 [Mari Pangestu]: I think this is hugely important making the
05:21 argument that investing in women is about smart economic policy, and this seminal report
05:29 provided a framework which was simple but powerful and it helped to explain why progress
05:36 was faster in some areas than others.
05:39 And I think this allowed a discussion, a dialogue, around the kind of policies that will be needed
05:47 to make the difference that we want to achieve.
05:50 [Mari Pangestu]: And over the last decade, the evidence has
05:54 increased substantially and progress has been achieved in several key areas.
05:59 At the time of the seminal report, the WDR on Gender and Development, the evidence base
06:06 was limited and mostly on high income countries.
06:09 10 years later, there is a lot more knowledge and it is much more granular.
06:14 Maternal mortality has decreased by around 10%, three quarters of all girls enroll in
06:20 secondary school which represent a 5% increase, and women's economic rights have improved.
06:27 And there are more women than ever before in parliaments across the globe.
06:32 We have one today as one of the speakers.
06:35 [Mari Pangestu]: The World Bank Group has invested significant
06:39 resources in broadening the evidence base on determinants of and solutions to gender
06:45 gaps at the country level.
06:47 So I think the seminal report led to a whole lot of research and collection of evidence
06:54 base so that we can really focus on what are the most challenging problems, in particular
07:00 gaps in access to economic opportunities, which is likely to be the most important area
07:06 of gender inequality, together with social norms.
07:09 [Mari Pangestu]: However, as Mamta already mentioned also,
07:13 progress has been slow in other important domains and there are question about whether
07:19 and how results map from one context to another.
07:23 Gender gaps remain in labor force participation and pay.
07:27 Gender unequal social norms have proven difficult to change as women and girls continue to be
07:33 responsible for the bulk of care and domestic work.
07:36 And women are still underrepresented in leadership positions in governments and private sector,
07:42 and globally, violence against women and girls remain widespread.
07:46 [Mari Pangestu]: We are at a critical juncture.
07:49 The COVID-19 crisis has compounded longstanding challenges for women and girls around the
07:55 world, and a lot of what we have seen happen in the last two years shows that the impact
08:01 of COVID has impacted women much more than men and exacerbated the large and persistent
08:08 barriers to gender equality, and intensified the occurring pandemic of violence against
08:16 women and girls.
08:17 The urgency of the crisis demands bold and comprehensive solutions and it also presents
08:24 an opportunity to build back better.
08:26 [Mari Pangestu]: Climate change fragility and conflict affect
08:30 men and women and boys and girls differently creating obstacles to gender equality and
08:35 hindering progress and prosperity.
08:38 So we really should focus on how policies can move beyond considerations of gender-based
08:43 vulnerability towards empowering women and girls to contribute to increased community
08:49 resilience.
08:50 Today, we will hear from many inspiring experts who will share insights on how we can advance
08:57 gender equality, even in the face of seemingly unprecedented obstacles.
09:01 These are leaders who have leveraged their influence to enact positive change.
09:06 [Mari Pangestu]: Considering this context as we launch the
09:10 Accelerate Equality Initiative, we seek to look back to understand what success we can
09:17 build on and, of course, what lessons we have learned.
09:20 And throughout the year, we will also look to the future.
09:24 What are the new frontiers for gender equality?
09:27 How can we work more effectively towards the empowerment of women, men, boys and girls,
09:33 and leverage their vast potential in a changing world?
09:37 Finally, let me encourage you to continue to join us throughout this year to contribute
09:43 to the discussion and learn along with us on how we can really accelerate equality.
09:49 Thank you.
09:51 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much, Mari, for your excellent
09:57 remarks and also for your leadership in our institution on gender issues.
10:03 It's very much appreciated.
10:06 I'm now going to turn to our fantastic panelists.
10:09 I'm very pleased to welcome all of you to this very special event.
10:14 As Mari said, we are launching our accelerated quality initiative today.
10:18 [Mamta Murthi]: Let me read out the names of our panelists
10:23 in alphabetical order.
10:24 First of all, we have Honorable Minister Zainab Ahmed who's the minister of finance, budget
10:29 and national planning of Nigeria.
10:32 We then have Ferid Belhaj, who is our vice president in the MENA region at the World
10:38 Bank.
10:39 Welcome.
10:41 We have Miss Anila Denaj who is a current member of parliament and former minister of
10:46 finance and economy of Albania.
10:49 Welcome.
10:51 We have Minister Sri Mulyani Indrawati who is the minister of finance of the Republic
10:55 of Indonesia and, of course, a former managing director at the World Bank.
11:01 Welcome, Minister Sri Mulyani.
11:03 [Mamta Murthi]: We have Deepa Narayan who is a author, activist
11:08 and social scientist.
11:11 She's battling COVID in her family in India, and she will join us for the second half of
11:16 the event.
11:18 We also have Steven Puig, who is the CEO of Banko BHD Leon in the Dominican Republic.
11:26 Welcome, Steven.
11:27 And finally, last but not least, we have Hademine ould Saleck, Imam and chief of Mahadra in
11:36 the Ibn Abass Mosque in Mauritania.
11:38 Welcome, sir.
11:39 I had the pleasure to meet you last month and I'm delighted that you are joining us
11:44 today.
11:45 [Mamta Murthi]: So I'm going go to the opening and framing
11:49 question and we're going to ask this of our former managing director, Minister Sri Mulyani,
11:55 who was at the helm of our institution when we launched the World Development Report in
12:02 2012 on Gender and Development.
12:06 So Minister Sri Mulyani,, you were the managing director when we launched this report.
12:11 What do you think it achieved?
12:14 Do you feel that it helped bring gender equality into the center of the development policy
12:21 dialogue, and if so, how?
12:23 Over to you.
12:25 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Thank you, Mamta.
12:32 Very good morning to you in Washington, DC.
12:36 Here, it's already little bit night, late.
12:39 I think we are all remember when we launched the WDR 2012 with a theme on gender equality.
12:47 This has set at least recognition regarding a very important issue on development.
12:55 That is the equality from the gender perspective.
12:59 That report addressed four area which is very important and still continue very relevant
13:06 today.
13:07 That is reducing gender gap in human capital, especially on education and woman mortality,
13:15 closing gap in access to economic opportunity.
13:18 This is especially important when we are talking about growth, equality of growth, and especially
13:26 on productivity.
13:27 The third theme is decreasing the gender differences in voice and agency, which Mari also mentioned
13:38 earlier.
13:39 And then the fourth area is limiting the reproduction of gender inequality.
13:44 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Since WDR 2012, we saw quite a lot of progress
13:52 has been made globally and also in each country, but also this progress is still very uneven.
14:01 Some country make quite significant progress, whether this is in terms of legislation or
14:06 in term of their budget or policy that recognize a specific issue that need to be addressed
14:14 in order for us to be able to get the equality from the gender perspective.
14:20 But other country is still behind like Sub-Sahara Africa, as well as South Asia.
14:27 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Since the 2012 WDR, we also saw global movement,
14:35 especially under the United Nation when they launched sustainable development goals, in
14:44 which the gender quality put in the goal number five, in which we want to achieve sustainable
14:52 development goal by 2030.
14:53 It's a very ambitious one, 15 years, and if you look at the progress, this means that
15:00 a lot of hard work still needs to be done.
15:10 Globally in this case, with this WDR 2012, I think, as mentioned by Mari, a lot of progress
15:14 has been made, especially in collecting data, providing evidence base that can provide also
15:23 additional, not only perspective, but also convincing argument regarding importance of
15:29 this gender equality.
15:30 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: It is not only good in itself, morally right,
15:35 but also economically smart.
15:37 We see that this is going to gain quite a lot of traction when we see the benefit on
15:43 economic side and especially on the quality of life of the population.
15:47 But we also see that the progress is still very, very slow.
15:54 World Economic Forum 2021 showing that there is still 68% of average gender gap, and if
16:02 you want to close this gap, it will require 135.6 years.
16:08 That's still very, very long way to go, and that's why we need more collaboration.
16:15 If we reflect back what area that we could do more and what area in which we can learn
16:21 each other.
16:22 I think this is very important.
16:23 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Indonesia will use our role in this case to
16:27 also promote this gender equality.
16:28 For example, when we are now hosting the G20 as a presidency.
16:32 We are also promoting this on a woman 20, but also in term of the discussion that we
16:40 are having, and on a finance track, as well as separate track.
16:46 Indonesia also adopting this gender equality within our long term development goal, and
16:53 as the finance minister, I continue promote this while we are also at the same time providing
17:02 leadership so that we are going to be able to continue to make a concrete progress.
17:07 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Gender base budgeting has been promoted in
17:12 Indonesia.
17:13 We also, as the finance minister, we usually also dominated by male worker.
17:21 We also promote quite a lot of supporting for our women staff, including childcare,
17:29 lactation, and also paternity leave.
17:32 This is all very progressive if you consider within the context of global, as well as Indonesia
17:39 itself.
17:40 We use our instrument in this case to promote gender, especially related to the economic
17:46 opportunity.
17:47 So most of the women labor force participation in an informal sector, so we use our program
17:54 to provide capital access, especially for the informal sector and woman player in this
17:58 case.
17:59 That has already reached quite a lot traction at the very grassroot which is very, very
18:09 important.
18:10 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: At the end, I will say that the WDR 2012 set
18:16 at least tools as well as recognition of how important is gender equality if we want to
18:26 achieve development core.
18:27 How important, not only in terms of growth, but quality and equality.
18:30 And we still need to do a lot of work legislation-wise, policy tools that we can develop and also
18:40 learning each other in which we can actually promote this gender equality.
18:47 Many of the gender equality related to norm, social norm and values, and this cannot be
18:52 done by promoting and saying that, "Oh, we are going to change."
18:56 Usually you really need quite a lot of process of education, socialization and even evidence
19:02 base.
19:03 So these are all the area that we still need to be done.
19:07 Thank you, Mamta.
19:09 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much, Minister Sri Mulyani.
19:13 I noted very carefully that you said the WDR made the case for gender equality.
19:22 It continues to make the case in terms of the work, the research that it has unleashed.
19:29 You also said that it generated some tools to help in the analysis, in making the case
19:37 and in reforming social norms.
19:42 We will talk about all of these things in the next section, in particular, as we focus
19:48 on some of the remaining challenges.
19:51 [Mamta Murthi]: And to speak about some of the remaining challenges,
19:55 I'm going to begin first with Steven.
19:58 Steven, Sri Mulyani, in fact, just mentioned about the fact that many women are employed
20:05 in the informal sector, in small jobs with low productivity.
20:11 This is a challenge if we want to close the gender wage gap, which is actually reflective
20:18 of the fact that women are in small jobs with low productivity.
20:22 So in your view, what do you feel have been some of the solutions in improving productivity
20:30 of these small, female-owned enterprises, and what can be done to raise the productivity
20:37 and encourage an expansion and growing profitability of these enterprises.
20:43 Over to you.
20:44 [Steven Puig]: Thank you, Mamta, and good morning to everyone
20:47 from the Dominican Republic here.
20:49 This clustering around much smaller enterprises is certainly true in our country and in our
20:56 region, as well.
20:57 When we look at the clustering here, it's 50% of micro enterprises are owned by women.
21:05 44% of smaller SMEs are owned by women.
21:09 33% of medium size SMEs are owned by women, and 22% of the larger SMEs here are owned
21:15 by women.
21:16 And if you go to larger corporates, well, the numbers continue to decline.
21:20 [Steven Puig]: I'll try to answer that in terms of our own
21:24 sector which is where we have the most experience.
21:27 I think that one of the things that's helped over the last couple of decades has been the
21:32 broadening definition of access to finance.
21:35 If I think back to the early 2000s, when we talked about access to finance we were focused
21:41 primarily on microfinance.
21:44 Our institution happens to be an institution that undertakes everything from microfinance,
21:49 all the way up to project finance, so we're active in microfinance.
21:52 [Steven Puig]: But one of the things that we realized about
21:55 eight or nine years ago is that there's a great opportunity beyond microfinance, and
22:02 that's something that when we started looking around on whom we could partner with, well,
22:07 we partnered with IFC, but also we identified the Global Banking Alliance for Women which
22:11 had been formed in the 2000s to further access to finance for companies that were led by
22:20 women that were larger and that were growing, so primarily SMEs going a little bit beyond
22:28 the micro level.
22:29 [Steven Puig]: And one thing that I've seen that's very interesting,
22:33 and I've had the privilege to participate on the Global Banking Alliance's board over
22:38 the last couple of years, is that we decided to change our name two years ago and we're
22:42 now the Financial Alliance for Women.
22:44 So I think that we've moved in the last couple of decades from a focus on micro to banking
22:50 in general, and now with the Financial Alliance for Women.
22:54 We're focused also on insurance, we're focused also on fintechs.
22:59 We're focused also on investment banks that could have initiatives that could impact access
23:04 to finance on a much broader basis.
23:07 [Steven Puig]: So I think to answer your question from our
23:09 sector's point of view, I think this broadening definition of access to finance is something
23:15 that helps those that are micro and that will be growing, and those that are a bit larger
23:20 as well.
23:21 I think that aside from access to finance, access to non-financial services has been
23:26 key, at least in the program that we've developed and that we've seen other banks develop, as
23:30 well.
23:31 And by this, I mean the ecosystems that we create to support our clients, ie.
23:35 provision of key services such as good tax advice, good legal advice, things in which
23:42 our clients may not necessarily be well-versed.
23:44 [Steven Puig]: We've partnered with universities in something
23:47 that the government promoted here several years ago called the creation of SME centers,
23:51 which are basically for training so that businesses can have a greater chance of success.
23:57 We've bundled services, not only financial services, but also financial services with
24:03 non-financial services for our customers.
24:06 We've promoted networking, which we understand is very important, not just from a commercial
24:10 point of view so that our customers can figure out whether they might have a good provider
24:15 that may be women-led or a good customer that may be women-owned, but also in terms of simply
24:22 sharing stories on how they've dealt with different and aspects of running their businesses.
24:26 [Steven Puig]: And lastly, something that has worked for
24:29 us in terms of non-financial products or services has been access to a web portal where our
24:36 women-led businesses can offer the products and services that they provide.
24:41 [Steven Puig]: The third thing that I would mention that
24:44 I think is useful in terms of providing inputs from our sector that can help these businesses
24:56 grow is simply the raising public private awareness of what can be done in terms of
25:03 the gender gap.
25:04 And I think that the World Economic Foundations initiative, the Gender Parody Accelerator,
25:11 which is something which is under gestation in our country here, has helped bring together,
25:16 not just banks, but also other companies to discuss what can be done, what needs to be
25:23 done and to figure out what opportunities exist for the future.
25:29 [Steven Puig]: So in our initial discussions, things that
25:32 we focused on here have been procurement policies, both public and private, access to data.
25:38 Data is key.
25:39 In our own sector we see a great opportunity for authorities to mandate that we provide
25:47 gender disaggregated data so that not just ourselves...
25:51 I mean, we do it ourselves because we're focused on this, but so other players will realize
25:56 the kinds of opportunities that exist when you can look at gender disaggregated data
26:00 in terms of your clients.
26:02 And that information is very revealing in our region.
26:05 There are countries that have mandated it for years such as Chile and I think it's something
26:09 that can be done in many other places, as well.
26:11 It's something that's still in the works here.
26:13 [Steven Puig]: And lastly, and obviously, I think, obviously
26:16 training, ie.
26:17 education, re-skilling, upskilling is at that public private divide where we need to figure
26:26 out and be on top of what the private sector is actually demanding, and the public sector
26:30 can certainly help in developing that.
26:32 [Steven Puig]: If I think of larger companies, I think that
26:35 something that's key is linking a gender focus to the governance of larger companies, and
26:44 by this I mean the common purpose.
26:46 If I look at our common purpose, our common purpose is very simple.
26:50 It's to promote human development by offering banking services that are close to our customers,
26:55 that are responsible and that are innovative, and how can you do that if you exclude half
27:00 of your customers?
27:01 So it ties it in once you relate it to what-
27:03 [Steven Puig]: ... behalf of your customers.
27:04 It ties it in once you relate it to what your common purpose is in a larger company.
27:06 I think that's something that helps permeate the organization and make sure that everybody
27:12 has this at least in mind in everything that we do.
27:16 If you bring it to a governance level, then obviously you're also thinking about what
27:19 you have, the level of representation you have at your board of directors and from there
27:24 on down, and you also think about business cases as well, which I think is key for the
27:28 private sector to have a good business case to really motivate what you're doing in terms
27:34 of gender parity, which is something that has really driven what we do and is something
27:38 that we learn through the IFC.
27:40 That's key.
27:41 If you're not going to be the flavor of the month or of the year or two or three years,
27:45 you really have to have a business case behind what you're doing to focus on gender.
27:50 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much, Steven.
27:53 That was a very rich and comprehensive response, and I took a lot of notes.
27:58 You talked about the expansion of financial services, but also non financial services,
28:04 training for these small entrepreneurs, but you broadened the conversation and talked
28:09 about awareness raising and making sure that it's everybody's business.
28:16 Everybody realizes that this is important to development impact, so thank you very much
28:21 for that.
28:22 I want to move on to the very important question of social norms, which often get in the way
28:29 of women taking advantage of the services that are available.
28:33 In this context, I want to bring in Imam Hademine.
28:37 Imam, you are a community leader, and you have played a very important role in helping
28:44 address gender norms in your community particularly those that relate to early marriage and early
28:53 childbearing, which often get in the way of women's economic opportunities and voice,
28:58 so can we learn from you on what are some of the things that you feel have been effective
29:06 in addressing gender norms that women are confronted with?
29:11 Over to you.
29:12 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: [Translated from Arabic] Hello and good morning,
29:20 good afternoon.
29:21 I'd like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to participate in this important event, and
29:27 I hope to see you here in Nouakchott soon as we met before.
29:33 Thank you very much for this opportunity.
29:36 At the outset, I would like to give you the good news that the rate of development and
29:48 advancement in terms of achieving gender equality and achieving prosperity for women and children,
29:58 as well as getting rid of many negative customs that have led to children falling sick and
30:09 maternal mortality.
30:12 We are moving away from a reality that was there tens of years ago where the woman was
30:20 not present at all.
30:22 From all those fears, they were absent from all those fears, and this has nothing to do
30:29 with culture or religion or anything, especially in some areas of Africa.
30:33 There are so many pains that the women are suffering, there are great deal of efforts
30:40 that need still to be made, and I'm optimistic that we will, we are very close by the will
30:48 of God from achieving this breaching this gender equality gap and achieving equality.
31:00 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: We are unable to reach certain goals at this
31:05 point.
31:06 However, with this cooperation, with the grace of God, we are now able to reach areas that
31:15 before we were not able to reach.
31:17 I think we were, before right now ... we are better off right now than we were before,
31:24 and we are better equipped to talk to the people, especially in areas of a child marriage.
31:34 This was a big problem a long time ago, and now it is being discussed.
31:40 Some of the activists and some women are now convinced that the child marriage only contained
31:50 negatives, negative effects for the girl because she gets married and then gets pregnant at
31:57 an early age where she is a child herself.
32:03 We have several cases of young girls who died because of early pregnancy.
32:10 These statistics that are given to us by the health authorities and this helped us convinced
32:20 a great deal of people who are really holding onto these negative customs, harmful customs.
32:27 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: I believe that we can speed up the rate of
32:34 achieving these goals, so if we could cooperate and convince all the religious leaders and
32:44 the people in general.
32:47 There are some people who still represent a hurdle for us even in communities, in women
32:54 communities.
32:56 Women communities now are mostly convinced that things need to be changed.
33:04 However, there is a minority that still holds on to old beliefs, and we need to continue
33:09 to work with them so that we can uproot these harmful practices from our societies, especially
33:17 in these countries where the project is working on.
33:21 I told you before that we are able to, we are ready to work with them, and I'm very
33:30 optimistic in reality that we will get rid of these traditional harmful practices that
33:40 some people still want to hold on to and some traditional men and some societies are still
33:46 holding on to.
33:48 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much.
33:52 Imam Hademine.
33:55 You've emphasized that it's very important for people to use their voice, both men and
34:01 women, and community leaders, to use their voice, to speak out about the need to change
34:08 social norms.
34:09 This is a very important point.
34:11 You also talked about how women themselves need to advocate for change, and I couldn't
34:18 agree with you more.
34:20 I want to move us on to another issue, which gets in the way of women's economic opportunities.
34:28 That has to do with violence against women and girls.
34:32 I'd like to bring in Miss Denaj on this issue.
34:37 We know that women all over the world suffer from physical and sexual violence, and unfortunately
34:47 COVID 19 has made things worse.
34:52 Miss Denaj, I'd like you to draw up on your own experience in government, and share with
34:58 us what do you feel has been successful in helping curb violence, curb domestic violence,
35:05 and what lessons would you highlight from your own experience that can be, that can
35:12 support an end to this practice?
35:14 [Miss Denaj]: Thank you, Martha.
35:18 Good morning and good afternoon to everyone, and thank you very much for the opportunity
35:22 to share the experience of Albania.
35:24 Violence against women and girls continues to prevail in Albania.
35:27 In 2019, it was reported that more than half of women and girls aged 15 to 74 years old
35:35 had experienced one or more forms of violence during their lifetime.
35:39 The spectrum of violence is white, including intimate partner violence, dating violence,
35:44 non-partner violence, sexual harassment.
35:47 Gender-based violence is not only widespread, but as also mentioned earlier, it is also
35:52 accepted by some social norms in particularly in rural areas.
35:56 Findings from the same sources above revealed that one in two woman believed that violence
36:04 between a husband and a wife is a private matter.
36:06 That the woman should tolerate some violence to keep her family together.
36:10 That the woman is partially to blame if her husband beats her.
36:13 [Miss Denaj]: These social norms influence women to stay
36:16 in an abusive relationship and not report crimes to the relevant authorities and mechanisms
36:21 that during the years had been built and strengthened more.
36:26 Enormous efforts are made in continuation towards legislation.
36:32 The 2021-2030 National Strategy on Gender Equality, which is the fourth of its kind
36:36 in Albania, focuses on the objectives of the government program on gender equality.
36:41 Its main pillars are prevention and support to the victims of violence particularly those
36:47 coming from the disadvantaged groups of women.
36:50 It is expected that for this strategy, the contribution from the state budget will cover
36:55 up to 50.5%, and I want to point out here one point.
36:59 If government will not put an emphasis on a budget support, this programs normally will
37:06 take more time, and government of Albania during the last eight years had put a lot
37:11 of emphasis both in legislation outbreak, but also budget support as we will see a bit
37:16 later.
37:17 [Miss Denaj]: Furthermore, the social fund mechanism become
37:19 functional in 2019 providing the opportunity to 14 municipalities, and I want to be very,
37:26 very specific here.
37:27 A lot of work has to be done in the local government, a part of the central government.
37:35 About 700,000 Euros were granted to 14 municipalities to provide emergency service to women victims
37:41 of violence or domestic violence.
37:43 The government adopted legislation pursuant to the law of social enterprises, according
37:48 to which an enterprise support fund in the total sum of about 2.8 million Euro for the
37:55 period 2019 2021 was granted and particularly to create new jobs, to cover the mandatory
38:00 social and health insurance payments for employees of social enterprises belonging to disadvantaged
38:06 groups, and for startups, which is a very key component for the further economical empowerment
38:12 of victims or women in general.
38:14 [Miss Denaj]: The Ministry of Justice also has allocated
38:19 funds for free legal aid for women and girls in need.
38:24 Gender responsive budget, as I mentioned earlier, both at the central and the local government
38:28 is key and is considered a paramount importance by the government during the last nine years.
38:34 In 2021, there were 41 budgetary programs on gender response coming from 1% in 2013,
38:41 so we moved from one to 41 programs, and the budget also, of the budget supporting the
38:50 gender response is 9% of the total state budget from 1% in 2013.
38:56 As I mentioned, a lot of focus of government, it's very key to accelerate this process.
39:01 Second and very important is the structure, the bodies, the government, a mechanism to
39:06 lead and coordinate efforts.
39:08 Since 2017, we have the National Council on Gender Equality, the Parliamentary Subcommittee
39:14 on Gender Equality on Preventing Violence Against Women, and the Office for Coordinating
39:19 and Fight Against Domestic Violence, and the coordination of these bodies goes as high
39:24 as the Deputy Prime Minister.
39:27 [Miss Denaj]: Definitely of high importance is the role
39:30 in partnership with civil society, which I think in Albania is very important coordination
39:34 between different actors of government with the social society.
39:38 This organization also have an active presence in a advisory and monitoring bodies.
39:44 Online platforms had been set up from these organizations, counseling line for women and
39:50 girls platforms, which are necessary for help on legal assistance and advice online because
39:58 sometimes physical is not possible, not only because of COVID, but also because of, as
40:04 I mentioned, social norms.
40:06 Just to give you some figures, in 2020, it is recorded at 5,597 phone calls we're recorded
40:16 out of which support to court procedures were given for 750 cases.
40:21 Still, a lot have to be done, and the Commissioner for Protection Against the Discrimination
40:27 has a very key role in this, but I really want to thank and stop here to thank the institutions,
40:34 particularly UN agencies because they have been of paramount support in coordinating
40:38 [inaudible] mechanism.
40:39 We look forward to further increase collaboration between many actors and make our strategy
40:44 a vivid process and a more sustainable process in the near future.
40:51 Thank you very much.
40:52 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much, Miss Denaj.
40:53 Again, a very rich response.
40:55 You've touched the role of social norms that condone gender-based violence and the need
41:01 to change that.
41:02 You talked about the importance of public services.
41:04 You talked about a budget that is responsive to gender needs.
41:08 You talked about the role of local government and civil society, and also the role of international
41:14 organizations and UN agencies, so there was a lot in that, very much appreciate what you
41:19 said.
41:21 Many of these things, especially as they relate to public finance, we're going to take up
41:26 in our next section, but before that, we are going to show a short video that has been
41:31 especially prepared for this event.
41:35 We're going to turn to the video now, and then we're going to talk a little bit about
41:38 public finance.
41:43 [VIDEO]: Over the past decade, the world has progressed
41:54 towards greater gender equality.
41:57 Maternal mortality has decreased 10%.
42:01 Three out of five girls are enrolled in secondary school.
42:06 Women's economic rights have improved.
42:09 This provides benefits for everyone, however much more remains to be done, and COVID 19
42:17 has exacerbated the disparity.
42:19 Female students are less likely to return to school due to the propensity of gender
42:25 violence, early marriage, child and home care responsibilities.
42:31 Women have also been more likely to lose their jobs than men due to a higher concentration
42:36 of employment in informal sectors.
42:38 At current trends, it will take over 100 years to achieve gender equality across economic
42:46 and public spheres.
42:49 To reverse losses and accelerate equality, we should support countries too.
42:54 [VIDEO]: Make efforts to encourage women to participate
42:57 in the workforce, ensure economic opportunities, including digital and financial inclusion
43:04 for women, enact more equitable policies around child and elder care in the home, tackle the
43:12 scourge of violence against women and girls.
43:15 One in three women and girls experience violence in their lifetime.
43:20 Holistic solutions required to close the most stubborn gender gaps will depend on dedicated
43:26 efforts from all of us.
43:28 To this end, the World Bank Group is strengthening partnerships with diverse stakeholders.
43:35 Putting women and girls at the center of recovery efforts from COVID 19 will help catalyze a
43:43 stronger recovery.
43:44 Building on the evidence and the momentum, now is the time to accelerate action towards
43:50 gender equality together.
43:55 [Mamta Murthi]: Following that video that was especially prepared
44:10 for this, for launching our Accelerated Quality Initiative.
44:14 I now want to take up this issue of public finance.
44:18 Both Minister Sri Mulyani and Miss Denaj talked about the importance of public resources and
44:27 gender-sensitive budgeting.
44:29 My first question is going to be to Honorable Minister Ahmed.
44:35 Minister Ahmed, I hope ... yes, I see you.
44:38 I didn't see you earlier.
44:39 So, so delighted that you could join us.
44:43 We know that government debt levels have surged because of COVID 19 and fiscal pressures have
44:49 intensified.
44:50 As a Minister of Finance and as a leader amongst your peers, how would you advise Ministers
44:57 of Finance to mobilize revenue and also prioritize spending in a gender-sensitive way?
45:04 Over to you, Minister Ahmed.
45:05 [Minister Ahmed]: Thank you very much, Martha.
45:08 Let me say good afternoon and Happy New Year to all the distinguished panelists in this
45:14 discussion.
45:17 The fact is globally, we are now at a very important crossroads.
45:24 When it comes to gender equality and development, the issues we have have further been exacerbated
45:34 by the COVID 19 crisis.
45:37 The data is resoundingly clear.
45:39 Gender equality is a key driver of economic move anywhere in the world.
45:43 It also improves development outcomes, ultimately leading to improved resilience and greater
45:52 social inclusion.
45:53 It is the economic and social empowerment of women and girls that is critical for us
46:00 in developing countries now to see as one very quick pathway to build that better.
46:07 Funding and gender sensitive physical policies are also critical, but so also is credible
46:13 disaggregated data and impact monitoring as well as evaluation.
46:18 However, many countries are contending with increased fiscal constraints, including my
46:25 country.
46:26 [Minister Ahmed]: It is important therefore for Ministers of
46:30 Finance to consider comprehensive gender mainstreaming across fiscal policy and public financial
46:37 management.
46:38 The approach would of course vary from country to country and could include a coordinated
46:46 mix of relevant interventions, including gender-responsive budgeting, gender-responsive financial instruments,
46:54 a strategic focus on gender disaggregated data collection and analysis, as well as gender-responsive
47:01 financing frameworks.
47:04 In Nigeria, we are taking a holistic approach, and we're scaling existing and developing
47:12 new interventions that are at the intersection of gender and fiscal policy with public financial
47:19 management.
47:20 This approach presents a critical paradigm shift for us towards systemic and scalable
47:26 reforms, and also leverages on the coordination benefits of having the Ministry of Finance
47:32 budget and national planning functions encapsuled in one place, and for us, this is a [inaudible].
47:40 [Minister Ahmed]: On gender-response budgeting, recognizing
47:43 the critical importance of equitable budget and application and implementation, we have
47:50 formally introduced a gender lens to our national budgets with an expert provision that we made
47:58 specifically for the 2022 budget using a gender responsive budgeting framework.
48:05 We had prepared the 2022 budget.
48:08 This tech was taking, pulling a series of stakeholder consultations that we conducted
48:13 with support from the International Monetary Fund, the IMF.
48:17 We also have currently capacity building for the Budget Office of the Federation and other
48:23 government agencies on the implementation of the gender-responsive budgeting provisions.
48:28 With an initial focus on sectors that are critical to human capital development, specifically
48:34 health, education, and humanitarian affairs and social development.
48:40 On gender responsive, fiscal package, fiscal stimulus package, another area that we have
48:47 made some progress, and we have support here from the UN women, they supported our review
48:52 of the Nigeria's Fiscal Stimulus Package following the COVID 19 pandemic.
49:01 The 2.3 trillion Naira COVID 19 fiscal package had referenced GDP data from our Bureau of
49:07 Statistics and recognizes the critical role played by the ESP for Nigeria [inaudible]
49:16 session.
49:17 [Minister Ahmed]: This ESP, the Economic Sustainability Program,
49:20 had express programs for women and for girls, as well as several institutional provisions
49:27 which will ensure gender responsiveness to the COVID 19 recovery.
49:32 Recommendations that were made include the use of gender disaggregated data to enhance,
49:38 tracking, and impact monitoring, and also to be able to explore the existing data that
49:44 we have in our National Bureau of Statistics for the COVID response, but also for our general
49:50 national development planning, and policy and implementation.
49:54 The third part is on the development of Gender Responsive Integrated National Financing Framework,
50:00 and this we started since 2019, actually December
50:04 We initiated the development of the Nigerian Integrated National Financing Framework, and
50:09 we formed the steering committee and the membership of the steering committee included the World
50:15 Bank.
50:16 [Minister Ahmed]: The IMFF is a United Nations tool that is
50:19 designed to help strengthen planning processes to overcome existing impediments to financing
50:25 sustainable development to enable us to reach the goals of the [inaudible].
50:31 Operationalizing the IMFF for sustainable development in Nigeria has helped us to strengthen
50:36 our national and state planning processes and strategically helped us to identify and
50:42 mobilize resources that are required to finance our development plans in other [inaudible].
50:51 We're also committed to ensuring that the IMFF is gender responsive all through the
50:56 implementation period.
50:57 I'd like to stop here, Martha, at this time.
51:03 Thank you.
51:04 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you so much, Minister Ahmed.
51:05 You have shown great leadership in terms of making the budget of Nigeria more sensitive
51:11 to gender issues.
51:13 I heard two very important things in addition in what you said.
51:18 One is having a framework through which to look at the budget so that it is responsive
51:25 to the needs of women and girls.
51:28 The second is to continuously build the evidence and have the data that supports this budget
51:35 process, so thank you very much for those insights.
51:39 Sticking to Public Finance, I now want to turn to Ferid, who is our vice president of
51:45 the MENA region at the World Bank.
51:47 Ferid, you have a responsibility when you talk to country authorities and need to make
51:54 the case that public finance needs to be responsive to gender issues.
51:59 Can you share with us your insights and your experiences in how you do this and what you
52:05 have found to be effective?
52:06 Over to you, Ferid.
52:07 [Ferid Belhaj]: Thank you.
52:08 Thank you very much, Martha.
52:11 First of all, Happy New Year to everybody, and it's such a pleasure to be in this distinguished
52:17 panel with a number of colleagues and friends around the world.
52:21 Let me first say on the personal side, the launch of the WDR 2012 was quite a unforgettable
52:30 experience for me.
52:31 I wasn't in the Pacific at the time, and launching it in all of those small states of the Pacific
52:38 was really very important and quite a challenge there and anywhere else, how to translate
52:44 those findings and recommendations into actual action on the ground, and this is really the
52:50 big challenge.
52:52 Coming to your question, yes, there are many competing priorities, but when it comes to
53:00 addressing gender gaps, this is not an afterthought in the Middle East and North Africa, and this
53:06 is not a subsidiary agenda.
53:08 What we have done over the last 18 months in terms of actual financing, and of course
53:15 we cannot finance without having a very strong, heavy substantive dialogue with your counterparts.
53:21 [Ferid Belhaj]: We have delivered, over the last 18 months,
53:26 5.4 billion dollars in new commitments to address specifically the impact of COVID 19
53:34 of course in MENA, but also making sure that in each one of those engagement, new commitments,
53:41 operations, that gender dimension is at the center of everybody's computation.
53:47 As Mari mentioned, as Sri Mulyani mentioned, this is smart, but it is also frankly, absolutely
53:56 unavoidable.
53:57 How can you move forward in any operation without including that dimension?
54:03 [Ferid Belhaj]: ... in any operation without including that
54:04 dimension.
54:05 I'll give you a few examples just to make sure that the translation into reality gets
54:10 understood.
54:11 For instance, to address a lower vaccination uptake among women, our response projects
54:19 in Tunisia, in Yemen, we have leveraged female-led NGOs for information sharing and used mobile
54:30 clinics staffed by women.
54:32 To address high vulnerability and female-headed household, cash transfer programs in Lebanon,
54:39 Jordan, Palestine, West Bank, and Gaza, we have targeted female-headed households.
54:45 To improve women's access to employment opportunities, we just had, going to the board, the Jordan
54:53 Support, Private Sector, Employment And Skills, which includes a series of actions, specific
54:59 actions, to address all those constraints that women can find, for instance, transportation
55:05 subsidies, outreach for sectors employing a larger share of women.
55:13 To support them around businesses in a place where things may not necessarily seem as obvious
55:21 as one would like them to be, in Gaza, for instance, our Rapid Response Grant Program
55:27 supported qualified startups and small and medium enterprises directly hit by the Delta,
55:35 one third of those were managed by women.
55:39 [Ferid Belhaj]: Now, an issue that is really important is
55:42 we need to have and we have adopted the two-pronged approach.
55:47 One is to deal with the emergency of things, and this is what I've just outlined.
55:51 But also, there is a medium and longer-term conversation and this is where our engagement
55:57 when it comes to policy reforms becomes important, but also in terms of addressing the social
56:04 norms.
56:05 I was extremely happy to hear the colleagues, Imam Hademine, for instance, mentioning the
56:13 social norms, our colleagues from Albania, mentioning that as well.
56:18 It is fundamental to move on those.
56:21 [Ferid Belhaj]: And let me tell you something, we are an international
56:25 institution so we have our values and our values are global values.
56:30 And we have to push our agenda and the agenda that has a lot to do with empowering women
56:37 economically, socially, but also making sure that there is a legal framework that would
56:43 make sure that that empowerment is sustained over time and does not get challenged every
56:52 now and then.
56:53 So it is very important that we keep pushing that agenda through the economic side, through
56:59 the cultural side, but also very, very much through the legal framework that we need to
57:05 help those countries, I don't know, put together and, of course, adhere to.
57:09 Thank you so much.
57:10 And I think it's a really great agenda that you're pushing today at the 10th anniversary
57:15 of the WDR.
57:16 Thank you so much, Mamta.
57:18 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you, Ferid for those very inspiring
57:21 words.
57:22 I really appreciate what you said that how can we engage in any dialogue in any operation
57:28 without recognizing the value of gender in achieving the development outcomes?
57:34 To me, that's a very powerful statement.
57:36 Also, the rich insights you have into the social norms question requiring both the cultural
57:44 side but also the legislative side, both need to go hand in hand.
57:49 That's a very good and useful insight.
57:51 [Mamta Murthi]: We've talked about remaining challenges in
57:55 economic opportunities, in addressing social norms.
57:59 We've also talked about gender-based violence.
58:02 We talked about some of the tools in terms of the role of government and public finance
58:08 in addressing these challenges.
58:11 I want to now turn us to something that we have not spoken about as much, which is partnerships,
58:16 the importance of partnerships in addressing gender inequality.
58:22 And I'm going to ask a rapid round of questions to four of our panelists on this issue of
58:28 partnerships.
58:30 I'm going to begin with, Ms. Denaj, Anila, building on what you've just heard, I would
58:37 very much like to hear from you how you have been successful, how your government has been
58:43 successful in bringing in a wide range of stakeholders into the national strategy to
58:48 address gender inequality.
58:50 What are the insights from this experience?
58:53 [Miss Denaj]: Thank you again.
58:55 As I mentioned earlier, it's, first of all, the focus that government has placed from
59:00 the very beginning in 2013 with budget support and with all the instruments in governance.
59:08 We have considered that woman's lack of representation in business in Albania limit 20% of the GDP
59:18 growth each year.
59:20 And definitely, in order to reach a sustainable fight against violence and also to support
59:27 our gender equality, we need to empower women in being more independent economically, and
59:34 as I mentioned earlier, also to reach to a higher growth level of GDP.
59:40 Thus, many actors are connected because it's business, it's government institutions like
59:46 ministries, it's civil society, it's education.
59:49 And we also believe that through education we can reach quite a lot of success.
59:56 [Miss Denaj]: But during all this process, I want to highlight
01:00:00 the support of technical assistant in supporting us with the upgrade of our legislation, which
01:00:05 I think is the key route in every progress of this journey.
01:00:09 And legislation had improved considerably.
01:00:13 That puts a lot of emphasis for many actors to play its role accordingly, not only locally,
01:00:23 but also international standards and require permanent followup on how results have been
01:00:31 achieved.
01:00:32 We have come very close to a very good collaboration between many actors do a lot of support of
01:00:39 line ministry and particularly for violence is the ministry of health, but also ministry
01:00:44 economy is putting a lot of support because of public education, in professional education,
01:00:51 in particular, in rural areas.
01:00:55 Particularly for people living in rural areas, it's important that we support business representative
01:01:02 because 42% of people in Albania live in rural areas, and of course, woman empowerment there
01:01:08 is very key.
01:01:09 [Miss Denaj]: So just to conclude, I think it's focus of
01:01:14 government.
01:01:15 And as you mentioned, it has to be everybody's life.
01:01:18 It has to be lived from civil society, to government, to media, to all the actors, because
01:01:27 we'll be much better off as society, and as I mentioned, in the economical terms, if we
01:01:33 lead the same, that is now currently true in Albania, woman representative in government
01:01:39 is the top list in the world, I think, we have 12 ministers out of 17 or 33% in parliament,
01:01:46 but it has to be reached also in business and where we left behind considerably.
01:01:54 Thank you very much.
01:01:55 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you, Anila.
01:01:56 So you're saying focus, focus from the national authorities to bring everybody along and very
01:02:02 important to bring the private sector into the picture.
01:02:06 I'm going to ask the same question to Ferid.
01:02:08 So Ferid, over the last 10 years, the World Bank Group has relied on many partnerships
01:02:15 to support gender equality, in your experience, which have been successful and why have they
01:02:22 been successful?
01:02:24 Can you draw your experience and enlighten us?
01:02:28 Thank you.
01:02:29 [Ferid Belhaj]: Yes.
01:02:31 Look, I would say that we had two kinds of partnerships, one is locally, and without
01:02:39 that local partnership, we cannot do anything.
01:02:42 We are not going to be parachuting new values, new ways without having a strong local ownership
01:02:52 of it.
01:02:53 And that is not, if I may say, instant coffee, that doesn't happen overnight.
01:02:57 You need to work on it.
01:03:00 And that's where having our colleagues on the ground and engaging on a daily basis is
01:03:06 absolutely fundamental.
01:03:08 What you have done, for instance, you know during the recent trip to the Sahel and in
01:03:12 Mauritania and having that engagement there is part of it, it is really what we should
01:03:16 be all doing at all times.
01:03:19 [Ferid Belhaj]: Gender-based violence, for us, in men now,
01:03:23 we see it as a shadow crisis.
01:03:26 In addition to the COVID-19 crisis, we have that GDV crisis, it is there, and we need
01:03:32 to make sure that we keep it very much on top of our priorities.
01:03:37 [Ferid Belhaj]: Now, we have put together a few initiative,
01:03:43 one is, as I was mentioning earlier, how to translate discussions and strategies into
01:03:52 reality.
01:03:53 We just went, two, three months ago, to the board of directors of the World Bank with
01:03:58 a large engagement with Egypt, a large engagement with Egypt that included a very, very important
01:04:09 gender violence and gender empowerment dimension.
01:04:12 And that was not done by the World Bank, it was done in response to a very important ground-based
01:04:26 initiative from Egyptian women, the Egyptian Women's Association, ladies and men who believe
01:04:36 in that agenda.
01:04:38 And we were able to push it and to translate into law a number of initiatives that were
01:04:44 still sitting here or there.
01:04:48 [Ferid Belhaj]: On other dimensions, we were able to engage
01:04:53 with international partners also to help us, to help us move forward, for instance, in
01:04:58 the Mashreq Gender Facility that we have constructed over the last couple of years, this is a joint
01:05:04 IFC/World Bank initiative.
01:05:06 It aims at engaging or enlarging, let's say, women's labor force participation and pushing
01:05:15 back gender-based violence in Iraq, in Jordan, in Lebanon.
01:05:20 This was supported by Canada, supported by Norway.
01:05:25 And that too has proved to be a very important way of going about this agenda.
01:05:33 [Ferid Belhaj]: But let me again insist, nothing can be done
01:05:38 without having our, call them, champions sitting in the field and pushing that agenda so that
01:05:47 our engagement coming from outside, if I may, will collide positively with that priority
01:05:57 that those homegrown associations are putting on the table.
01:06:02 We help them strengthen their hand and they help us, they help us because we learn so
01:06:07 much from what they do.
01:06:10 And we can, by learning from what they do, transfer that kind of knowledge into other
01:06:16 places, of course, making sure that we custom fit it to the realities on the ground.
01:06:24 So, it's not a one-way street, it's really an exchange of information and an exchange
01:06:32 of goodwill all across.
01:06:34 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you.
01:06:36 Thank you.
01:06:37 So it's very strong local partnerships.
01:06:39 And I like this idea that you have of "positive collision" between international partnerships
01:06:45 and local partnerships.
01:06:46 That's a very nice way of putting it.
01:06:49 I'm going to move us on minister Ahmed and hear from her on her experience in building
01:06:57 partnerships around gender-based budgeting and support for women's issues.
01:07:05 Minister Ahmed?
01:07:06 [Minister Ahmed]: [inaudible].
01:07:07 Thank you again, Mamta.
01:07:08 I hope you can hear me.
01:07:09 In Nigeria, we do have a clear leadership across government.
01:07:15 So there's a unanimous understanding and agreement that there must be gender equity across all
01:07:23 levels of government.
01:07:25 And I wish we have made progress like the examples that Anila made, if we have some
01:07:32 legislations that actually make provisions to drive some of the key policy and governance
01:07:40 decisions that we have taken.
01:07:46 For example, (silence) even from the elections from the lowest level, right across to the
01:07:58 national level.
01:07:59 Right (silence).
01:08:04 [Mamta Murthi]: Minister Ahmed, I've lost you.
01:08:14 I assume it's not just me.
01:08:16 [Minister Ahmed]: Hello?
01:08:18 [Mamta Murthi]: Yes.
01:08:19 You're back.
01:08:20 Excellent.
01:08:21 [Minister Ahmed]: Yes.
01:08:22 So I was saying that-
01:08:24 [Mamta Murthi]: I lost you when you said that you were hoping
01:08:27 that there was as much progress as Anila was talking about.
01:08:34 You talked about the electoral process.
01:08:36 Yes.
01:08:37 [Minister Ahmed]: Using legislation, using the electoral process
01:08:40 to be able to bring up more women in leadership positions.
01:08:43 While we have more women featuring on the side of the executive, on the legislative
01:08:49 side, from the local governments, to the states, to the national level, the numbers are still
01:08:54 very, very small.
01:08:55 So there's a lot of work that is going on.
01:08:56 There's a constitutional review process, which we are trying to take advantage of to see
01:09:01 whether we can have some laws that actually legislate the proportion of women in some
01:09:07 key leadership positions.
01:09:08 [Minister Ahmed]: But having said that, I must also say we've
01:09:12 been able to leverage the fact that, for the first time, the ministry that I lead right
01:09:17 now is having the function of both planning, budgeting, as well as finance.
01:09:22 And it does help in terms of being able to coordinate activities in a manner that is
01:09:28 more holistic to make sure that the combined agencies that we supervise as well as the
01:09:33 whole of government actually has some emphasis on gender, some focus on gender across fiscal,
01:09:41 as well as public financial management.
01:09:43 [Minister Ahmed]: In terms of partnerships, I do agree that
01:09:48 partnerships should be driven, first of all, locally.
01:09:50 And we do have quite a number of non-governmental organizations that are driving gender [inaudible]...
01:10:01 more particularly, working in partnership with development partners.
01:10:09 Partnership has been critical, immensely, with the collaboration work between us and
01:10:17 World Bank, as well as the UN assistance, specifically the UN Women and the UNDP in
01:10:25 Nigeria.
01:10:27 We also have some very significant support from [inaudible].
01:10:51 I was invited to join an event.
01:10:55 It's an amazing [inaudible].
01:10:59 [Mamta Murthi]: I've lost you again minister Ahmed.
01:11:03 [Minister Ahmed]: Allo?
01:11:06 [Mamta Murthi]: You were invited to join an event, and then
01:11:09 I lost you.
01:11:10 [Minister Ahmed]: I joined the World Bank Advisory Council on
01:11:17 gender and development.
01:11:19 And we see it as an amazing opportunity to be able to share as well as to learn, not
01:11:23 only from the banks, but also from the members that are at the council.
01:11:26 It's helping us to think through and shape the future strategies that we must adopt for
01:11:31 gender equality and enhance development to ensure that the development that we seek to
01:11:36 achieve is inclusive and sensitive to the women and girls.
01:11:41 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you.
01:11:43 Thank you so much.
01:11:44 And I appreciate your persisting despite some of the technical issues.
01:11:49 The final person I want to bring in on this issue of partnerships is Steven.
01:11:54 And I want to go to you, Steven, you spoke very eloquently earlier about making gender
01:12:00 equality the business of everyone so that it permeates through all branches of finance,
01:12:06 and I guess, outside finance well.
01:12:09 But can we hear a little more from you on whether there are solutions that you are aware
01:12:14 of, approaches to partnerships that you are aware of that can better support the participation
01:12:20 of women, particularly in employment and in higher productivity sectors?
01:12:27 Over to you, Steven.
01:12:28 [Steven Puig]: Thank you, Mamta.
01:12:30 I think partnerships have been a key element of the program that we've been able to develop.
01:12:36 As a matter of fact, whenever I do a presentation on what we've done, I always have a slide
01:12:41 which is specifically on partnerships.
01:12:43 And in our case, when we took a look around to try to figure out what we could actually
01:12:46 do, we identified the gender, finance team at IFC, that was one of the first doors we
01:12:53 knocked on and we actually hired them.
01:12:55 This was out-of-pocket, this was not pro bono.
01:12:58 And we hired the team for one year to help develop our program about eight years ago.
01:13:04 And we also noticed the Global Banking Alliance for Women, and we were keen to be the first
01:13:10 member bank from our country and one of the first in our region, actually, I think at
01:13:13 the time, there were only five from Latin America that were members of what was then
01:13:17 called the GBA.
01:13:19 So those were key partnerships.
01:13:21 [Steven Puig]: The minister mentioned UN Women, we also sought
01:13:25 out UN Women and actually had a close relationship from the outset with the UN as well.
01:13:34 And over time, what we've seen is that partnerships have been key, not only for this, but I'm
01:13:41 in banking and in banking, digital transformation is everything right now.
01:13:47 Digital transformation involves new alliances, more alliances, more partnerships.
01:13:51 And this has been true, I mean, not just for our gender parity initiative, but also for
01:13:57 what we're doing in our business in general.
01:13:58 [Steven Puig]: So there have been other partnerships as well.
01:14:01 I mentioned the university centers, which are called Centros PyMEs or SME centers.
01:14:07 We were the first bank to decide to partner with these and we've partnered with four to
01:14:12 cover essentially four corners of our country to make sure that we're accessing SMEs in
01:14:20 these regions within our country.
01:14:24 And other multilaterals have been important as well.
01:14:27 We've worked with the IDB in our region.
01:14:29 [Steven Puig]: And I think that there are other partnerships
01:14:33 that are worth mentioning as well, obviously, different ministries within the government
01:14:37 here, we've worked with the ministry for women here.
01:14:40 Now that the gender parity initiative is being developed or the gender parity accelerator
01:14:46 is being developed here, this is something that's being spearheaded by the social cabinet
01:14:53 and the president of the country.
01:14:55 Again, it's still under gestation, it hasn't been launched.
01:14:58 But we've been in a number of preliminary meetings.
01:15:01 And that's an important partnership going forward.
01:15:05 And then also, we've partnered with the procurement division of the government as well to work
01:15:15 on what we can do in terms of SMEs and procurement that the government secures with our customers.
01:15:22 And the ministry of commerce and industry here as well in terms of our initiatives also.
01:15:29 [Steven Puig]: So I would say that over the last nine years,
01:15:32 when we've had our initiative, we've partnered with many third-parties to do what we've done
01:15:37 until now.
01:15:39 And lastly, I would mention external certifications.
01:15:43 Last year, we got our initial EDGE certification.
01:15:46 EDGE is based in Switzerland.
01:15:48 We see them as a key partner going forward as well to have a very transparent stocktaking
01:15:56 of where we are in terms of parity within the organization, which is something that
01:16:04 we need to share with our own folks periodically.
01:16:06 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you.
01:16:09 Thank you, Steven.
01:16:10 That was really very helpful.
01:16:13 This brings us to the last and final session of our event this morning.
01:16:19 After we've talked about the outstanding challenges, the role of government and public finance,
01:16:25 the role of partnerships, we now have to bring it together and think about what does this
01:16:30 mean for what the World Bank should focus on as it thinks about its new gender strategy
01:16:41 in this period that takes us beyond 10 years since the WDR?
01:16:46 [Mamta Murthi]: And for this last session, I'm going to turn
01:16:50 to three speakers to give us the benefit of their wisdom.
01:16:55 I'm going to first start with minister Sri Mulyani, I'm going to go back to her.
01:17:00 We started with you, minister Sri Mulyani.
01:17:03 As a minister of finance and as a international development leader and as somebody who knows
01:17:08 the World Bank Group, I would like to ask you what role you would see for international
01:17:13 development partners and for the World Bank Group in particular, in this as we look forward?
01:17:20 What should we focus on to promote gender equality and women's empowerment?
01:17:26 And perhaps, if I may, what should we do differently?
01:17:28 Over to you, minister Sri Mulyani.
01:17:30 You're muted.
01:17:31 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Sorry.
01:17:34 Thank you, Mamta.
01:17:38 If you talk about the international institution like World Bank, we all know you have three
01:17:49 very important power or influence, first is, of course, financing, which you can translate
01:17:56 it into programs supporting many developing country.
01:17:59 Second one is the knowledge in which the World Bank can collect as well as then disseminate
01:18:08 knowledge, including technical assistance to many of the country which, in this case,
01:18:14 when we talk about gender, mean that you can explore more or even support many country
01:18:21 in terms of gender data.
01:18:25 Because if you cannot measure, if there is no evidence that can be presented in a convincing
01:18:32 way, I think that's going to be also less persuasive.
01:18:37 That can also bring the change that you want.
01:18:40 So knowledge, data, and how you present it, I think it's very, very important.
01:18:45 The third one is the convening power, which you are now doing and continue doing it.
01:18:52 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: What you could do in a better and different
01:18:56 way, I think what I don't hear much in this conversation, although I heard from Steven,
01:19:05 is the role of the digital technology, and especially, that we are dealing with many
01:19:10 millennial generation, the younger generation, which is more tech savvy and they are also
01:19:18 more confidence, have more ambition.
01:19:20 So in this case, the way that you are going to use these three very important and powerful
01:19:27 sources that is financing and knowledge as well as convening, can be combined with the
01:19:33 digital technology.
01:19:34 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: I myself, in this case, listening to the previous
01:19:38 conversation regarding the partnership, I will give you some of the very concrete example.
01:19:43 I think, we've talk about the gender budgeting, as a finance minister, we did that.
01:19:49 We also design, for example, like policy, when we do the social safety net.
01:19:56 This is also implemented with the gender lens in which the recipient are all women.
01:20:02 We also provide quite a lot of support for small, medium enterprises, informal sector,
01:20:06 especially woman.
01:20:07 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: But these are all what we've already done,
01:20:12 how we are going to be more powerful in terms of providing impact and the role of digital
01:20:18 technology is very important.
01:20:19 First, Mamta, my own, in the cabinet, we have six minister, uniquely in Indonesia.
01:20:26 I'm a finance minister, which is traditionally always a male.
01:20:32 And then second one, the first time in Indonesia, the foreign minister is also a woman, happen
01:20:37 to be, she is my classmate.
01:20:40 So when we both together come up in the social media, Instagram, Facebook, and then seeing
01:20:47 the two minister women together and we sometime also showing our own personal family life,
01:20:55 this can be a very powerful role model for many women girls in Indonesia, that you actually
01:21:03 can-
01:21:04 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Any woman girls in Indonesia, that you actually
01:21:05 can achieve your career as well as your family work-life balance.
01:21:09 And, also a very power, using this powerful social media.
01:21:15 And also in Indonesia, we have [in Bahasa], which is celebrated as a gender equality,
01:21:22 in which we have a heroine, a champion back in 19th century, so we used that momentum
01:21:31 in which we celebrated this equality.
01:21:34 Even back before Indonesia was independent, we've already strived for this equality.
01:21:39 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: So use this approach, which is totally different,
01:21:44 rather than maybe a very dry statistical evidence base.
01:21:48 You provided it in a very powerful lifestyle, or a very powerful real concrete role.
01:21:54 I think that's going to be very, very important.
01:21:57 And you, in this case, the World Bank as an institution, which is operate globally, definitely
01:22:03 can use that, what you call it, brand as well as convening power in a much more creative
01:22:11 way.
01:22:12 That is my thinking.
01:22:13 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: The second one, as I said, evidence-based
01:22:15 data analytic is very important.
01:22:19 Many of the younger generation is now is also very, very, what you call it, into this digital
01:22:28 data analytic.
01:22:29 So if we are going to be able to present more on this, the, gender dimension in anything,
01:22:36 from the policy perspective, social implementation because when you have this evidence presented
01:22:45 and also owned by the younger generation, they then can see that, oh, this is important,
01:22:51 how to correct that.
01:22:52 That then the word World Bank can come up with, oh, this is how you can address this
01:22:57 issue.
01:22:58 This going to be a very powerful partnership in terms of the recognition ownership how
01:23:04 you understand the data.
01:23:06 And then you can provide this design of the policy that you can learn from many country
01:23:14 in the world, which is already very successful, including what just mentioned by Anila and
01:23:20 others about legislation.
01:23:23 This legislation can only be accelerated when the population believe that we need to change.
01:23:30 Then our legislature will think, "Oh, okay, we have to change," because they are representing
01:23:35 the people, right?
01:23:36 So these are also very, very important.
01:23:39 And that is something that I think is going to be very, very critical for this partnership.
01:23:45 World Bank with the three very powerful sources of knowledge, finance and convening, and then
01:23:53 combined with this movement coming, especially from the younger generation, millennial, with
01:23:59 this digital technology.
01:24:01 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: The third, I think I heard from Imam Hadameen.
01:24:05 Indonesia is also a Muslim country.
01:24:09 We have, for example, our Imam of our Istiqlal mosque.
01:24:14 This is the national mosque, the biggest mosque in Indonesia.
01:24:18 And he's also a very champ.
01:24:20 He's a champion in the gender equality.
01:24:24 So he talked to me and said, "Could you provide support on how we are going to have a more
01:24:31 woman to become somebody who preach?"
01:24:35 So usually the preacher is more male dominated also.
01:24:39 But if you have more women, in which they also have the understanding of the religious
01:24:48 values, and at the same time also presenting with this dimension, I think that can make
01:24:54 a real, a lot of difference.
01:24:56 So, that kind of thing is going to be something that is create a game changer.
01:25:01 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: Also minister of education in Indonesia, we
01:25:04 have the minister of is education is the owners, the founder of Gojek.
01:25:09 This is again a very high-profile digital company in Indonesia.
01:25:15 So younger generation look at him as a successful one.
01:25:20 And when he talk, as a male minister, talking a lot about gender, that really bring what
01:25:27 a lot of powerful influence.
01:25:30 Minister of state owned enterprise.
01:25:32 Again, this is male minister, but he believe in this promoting gender equality.
01:25:38 So he said that all state-owned enterprises in Indonesia should have this at least 30%
01:25:45 woman in on the board.
01:25:47 See, he promoted younger generation.
01:25:49 [Sri Mulyani Indrawati]: So this kind of, what we call it, the partnership,
01:25:52 but also in this case, the power of real concrete action that then create quite a lot of, what
01:26:00 you call it, idea as well as inspiration for many, especially for the younger generation.
01:26:07 This kind of thing need to be explored more by the World Bank.
01:26:11 Thank you.
01:26:12 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you, Minister Sri Mulyani.
01:26:15 Those are very, very good thoughts and we welcome them very much.
01:26:21 I want to give two more panelists a chance to reflect on how the World Bank should move
01:26:28 forward.
01:26:30 One of them you just referred to.
01:26:31 I'd like to bring Imam Hademine back to the center stage.
01:26:39 And ask him, ask you, Imam Hademine, what role do you expect from international partners,
01:26:48 such as the World Bank to support gender equality?
01:26:53 And what would you like to see us doing to further support transformative change, which
01:26:57 we know will involve community leaders like yourself, men and women.
01:27:03 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: [Translated from Arabic] Thank you very much,
01:27:17 my sister.
01:27:19 Before I answer these questions, I would like to discuss or identify three terms that were
01:27:30 used: equality, violence.
01:27:33 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: In terms of the equality as a religious person,
01:27:45 I would like to say that Islam has created or established a total equality between men
01:27:57 and women.
01:27:58 They have to have the same salary.
01:28:01 And there is no distinction in government and spheres between women and men, in terms
01:28:06 of the social and economic roles.
01:28:12 There is comprehensive, and there is complementary between men and women, so that the society
01:28:20 would be productive, and the most productive possible.
01:28:27 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: In terms of violence, our Prophet Mohammed,
01:28:31 peace and prayer be upon him, said that God is merciful and like mercy, and is against
01:28:45 any violence.
01:28:49 Wherever there's mercy, there's goodness.
01:28:52 And wherever there is violence, there is evil.
01:28:55 So we have to be merciful towards the marginalized portions of our society, including women and
01:29:02 girls.
01:29:03 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: In terms of the third term, which is empowerment.
01:29:13 I would like to ask you, we are talking about equality and empowerment of women.
01:29:22 I would like to add the empowerment of religious leaders so that they can work and that they
01:29:29 speak directly to people and change the mentalities.
01:29:34 Many religious leaders, and Muslims in particular, must be able to speak directly to society
01:29:47 in order to eradicate these erroneous and harmful social norms.
01:29:53 This is what I'd like to say in terms of empowerment,
01:29:55 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: In terms of the first question, there are
01:30:01 things that the World Bank must not do, or must do in terms of moving forward with the
01:30:14 development and the gender equality.
01:30:17 The World Bank must work directly with the religious institutions to empower them, so
01:30:24 that they can speak to people and to make this change happen.
01:30:30 The question about the governments and what governments must do.
01:30:36 You are you, the World Bank, are partners with the governments.
01:30:40 So you have to implement more pressure on them, so that they can listen to their youth-
01:30:45 [Mamta Murthi]: Their own people.
01:30:47 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: So there our governments that have a great
01:30:52 deal of opportunities, but they waste their opportunities, and they don't give the opportunity
01:30:57 to the youth.
01:30:58 So we need to push them to enable, to enact legislations that are in favor of women.
01:31:07 [Imam Hademine ould Saleck]: The Indonesian minister reminded me of another
01:31:15 key aspect, which is what we call the guides or female guides.
01:31:22 This is not new.
01:31:23 Aisha, the prophet's wife, was, had listened and learned many things from the companions
01:31:31 of the prophet.
01:31:32 And so she was a guide.
01:31:33 She was a female guide.
01:31:34 And there's another companion of the prophet who was a female.
01:31:38 And she participated with him in meetings and in battles.
01:31:41 And she was with him as a counselor.
01:31:44 And she provided advisory services for women, in terms of medical expertise, and things
01:31:55 of that sort.
01:31:56 So this is part of the role that the woman used to practice at that time.
01:32:02 There are harmful customs that came and harmed women and harmed societies.
01:32:10 These customs and habits have nothing to do with Islam.
01:32:15 And we have.
01:32:16 We need to eradicate them, mean we have to work with you by the will of God.
01:32:24 And we are ready now to help the government to get rid of these harmful practices and
01:32:33 to help the World Bank reach this social equality partnership.
01:32:40 Thank you.
01:32:41 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you very much, Imam Hademine, both for
01:32:45 the terms, explication of the terms and for your thoughts on where the World Bank can
01:32:53 focus in the coming years.
01:32:55 We're a little over time.
01:32:57 But we have Deepa Narayan, who has joined us.
01:33:01 So I would like to give her a few minutes.
01:33:04 Deepa, thank you so much for joining us.
01:33:07 You have been a stalworth of support for gender equality.
01:33:14 We've talked a little bit about social norms.
01:33:16 I'd like to ask you two questions, and I'd appreciate it if you could respond briefly
01:33:20 because we are out of time.
01:33:23 First of all, in your experience, what has worked in addressing some of the social norms
01:33:27 that hold women back?
01:33:31 And that's my first question.
01:33:32 My second question is where would you like to see the World Bank focus in its efforts
01:33:37 to further support gender equality in the coming 10 years?
01:33:41 Over to you, Deepa.
01:33:42 [Deepa Narayan]: Thank you, Mamta.
01:33:44 It's a pleasure to be back after so many years.
01:33:48 I think it's interesting in this discussion so far, even though I was late because I both,
01:33:54 I have COVID as well as I've been taking care of my mother, who's very ill.
01:33:58 So the care responsibilities of women are always, always nearby.
01:34:04 [Deepa Narayan]: I haven't heard the word patriarchy.
01:34:09 And I think it's really important.
01:34:11 It's a word that I've avoided in the past because when we talk about social norms, it's
01:34:16 patriarchy or the belief that men are superior to women.
01:34:22 That really is the core of the scent of social norms.
01:34:26 And we are not talking about one social norms.
01:34:29 These are hundreds of social norms, which are all interrelated.
01:34:34 And just changing one social norm doesn't change, transform gender relations.
01:34:40 And it certainly doesn't transform power relations.
01:34:46 And I'm bringing up power because it's been explicitly mentioned in the WDR 2012 that
01:34:52 that is the goal.
01:34:56 [Deepa Narayan]: Secondly, as has been already mentioned, is
01:34:57 that these are all culture-specific.
01:34:59 And so it's impossible for me to talk about specific programs, but I'll highlight three
01:35:06 principles.
01:35:07 And these end up being feminist principles that are important in programs that have worked
01:35:16 across countries.
01:35:17 The first is that these programs very consciously change women's mindsets about who they are.
01:35:29 They change their beliefs, their self image and very directly attack and talk about the
01:35:35 social norms that keep women abreast, including internalized oppression.
01:35:41 So self image becomes important.
01:35:44 And many of these programs also teach specific behavioral skills like negotiation skills.
01:35:49 [Deepa Narayan]: Second is that they invest in collective power
01:35:54 and solidarity building, so that the burden isn't on individuals, but on a collective
01:36:00 or groups.
01:36:02 Third as has been mentioned is they invest heavily in communication strategies, social
01:36:07 media, plays, street theater, music.
01:36:13 Because these methodologies, these approaches are really important to change both our mindsets,
01:36:20 but also to penetrate our heart, as has been said.
01:36:24 If we take a very instrumental approach, you don't see it transformational change.
01:36:29 And finally, without finance, as has already been talked about.
01:36:33 There's a lot of rhetoric about these things, but I haven't seen large-scale programs that
01:36:39 actually invest in these systematically at the country level.
01:36:46 [Deepa Narayan]: So where does that leave interventions like
01:36:49 health education, single-sector interventions.
01:36:51 I think these are obviously very important, and they make a huge difference.
01:36:57 But they're not necessarily transformative because they don't by it themselves result
01:37:03 in changing gender stereotypes.
01:37:06 [Deepa Narayan]: So then the question really is what should
01:37:09 the World Bank do about it?
01:37:10 And I want to spend a little bit of time here.
01:37:16 I first want to talk about ideology because I think ideology is really, really important.
01:37:21 And what is ideology?
01:37:23 Is ideology is really the story that we tell ourselves.
01:37:27 And gender inequality is a made up story, but it's a story that traveled all across
01:37:33 the world, including informally and mitrally into societies, repeated a million times.
01:37:39 But we haven't really tried to change the story.
01:37:44 We've hoped that if we educate girls and women start earning incomes, the story will change.
01:37:50 It has changed only partially.
01:37:51 [Deepa Narayan]: So I want to talk a little bit of my India
01:37:54 research, where I've been talking, not to poor people, but spent the last decade talking
01:37:59 to educated middle-class and upper-class men and women, and women and men who believe mostly
01:38:05 in gender equality, actually men more than the women.
01:38:10 When we talk to women and ask them for three words to describe themselves, only two women
01:38:17 out of 300 use the word power.
01:38:21 And we talked to men including seven-year-old boys, not a single man used the word love.
01:38:29 And boys describe boys being the opposite of what is a girl.
01:38:37 So in effect we have outsourced power to men and love to women, and this hasn't changed
01:38:46 even amongst the educated in India.
01:38:49 It hasn't changed in the US, where a recent pure research poll shows that 90% of men and
01:38:58 women judged...
01:39:04 It doesn't go away unless it is, unless we actually deal with it.
01:39:11 And as long as we are in this win-and-lose framework, that if women gain power, men will
01:39:20 lose power, we are stuck.
01:39:23 So and there will be a backlash.
01:39:25 So we really need to expand definitions of masculinity as well as definitions of what
01:39:34 it means to be a woman because that's the core really of patriarchy.
01:39:37 [Deepa Narayan]: So my conclusion at the end of my work, and
01:39:44 especially after talking to men and seven-year old boys, was that we need a strong feminist
01:39:51 ideology that's current, that's refined, that goes beyond white feminism.
01:39:57 That's global, that centers brown men, women, children, people of all genders.
01:40:07 And that without that, we'll continue making some change, but we are not going to make
01:40:12 the great leap forward in a few decades rather than centuries.
01:40:16 [Deepa Narayan]: The last thing I want to say is feminism is
01:40:21 not dangerous.
01:40:22 So let me just give you one example from a 13-year old Methmul in Mumbai.
01:40:27 When I asked him what was the result of a 20-hour feminist program that he attended.
01:40:34 He said, "Now when I get angry, I don't throw my things around.
01:40:41 I don't yell at my mother.
01:40:43 I don't yell at my sisters.
01:40:45 I go in front of a mirror, and I talk to myself, and I say don't be angry.
01:40:52 You'll get another chance."
01:40:54 [Deepa Narayan]: So I end my work by calling for a new feminism,
01:41:00 a feminism X, that invites men in because without male leadership, men still hold the
01:41:07 power.
01:41:08 They're not going to see changes.
01:41:09 And also because men are trapped in a very narrow definitions of masculinity, and men
01:41:17 want to change and need opportunities to change.
01:41:21 So what is it that the World Bank can do on any sector that involves human beings?
01:41:26 You've got to have programs that are integral to these programs, that dialogues, that start
01:41:35 dialogues with men and women about power and about what it means to be a man and woman.
01:41:43 And I think the challenges is can the World Bank become a feminist organization?
01:41:49 [Mamta Murthi]: Thank you very much, Deepa.
01:41:53 I really appreciate that.
01:41:54 You've got up from your sicked to talk to us.
01:41:58 We are now going to conclude.
01:42:00 I'm so sorry.
01:42:01 We are over time and I'm going to just make some brief concluding remark.
01:42:07 I want to begin by saying that I am really humbled by the really rich discussions and
01:42:13 suggestions that we've had from all the participants.
01:42:17 And I'm just going to download a few things that I've heard, but it's going to take more
01:42:21 reflection to fully absorb everything that's been said.
01:42:25 We started the discussion thinking about what needs to come next, and what should the World
01:42:33 Bank do.
01:42:34 We heard that governments need to be in the driver's seat and advance gender equality
01:42:41 by having national strategies and a fiscal policy that supports the national strategy.
01:42:49 Minister Sri Mulyani talked about better data and knowledge to design and implement more
01:42:56 effective policies and programs, and including economic opportunities for women.
01:43:01 And also communication.
01:43:03 Minister Sri Mulyani talked about communication to facilitate legislative and policy reforms.
01:43:08 [Mamta Murthi]: Minister Ahmed made the point about the importance
01:43:12 of gender-responsive budgeting, also informed by sex disaggregated data and the interesting
01:43:20 role she has in coordinating policies across sectors because she's minister of finance,
01:43:25 budget and planning.
01:43:26 She also recognized the importance of legislative reforms, and processes to bring more women
01:43:32 into leadership roles underlining the fact that there weren't enough women in leadership
01:43:37 roles in government.
01:43:39 We talked.
01:43:40 [Mamta Murthi]: We had one representative from the private
01:43:42 sector.
01:43:43 And then Mr. Nigel also spoke about the private sector.
01:43:46 And I was very struck by what was said about the role of financial and business services
01:43:53 to empower women entrepreneurs, and how there are further opportunities for women that can
01:43:58 be brought in through better company governance, through procurement systems and through both
01:44:03 local and international partnerships, and including universities and partnerships with
01:44:10 international financial institutions.
01:44:12 [Mamta Murthi]: On the issue of partnerships, we had contributions-
01:44:16 [Arabic interpreter]: [Speaking Arabic]
01:44:19 [Mamta Murthi]: ... different view points ...Sorry, I can
01:44:24 hear.
01:44:25 Yeah, very good.
01:44:26 I want to reflect on what Phillipe said about how advancing gender equality really requires
01:44:35 institutions like the World Bank to bring that lens to every operation, and also have
01:44:39 this positive collision between international and local partnerships.
01:44:44 And then Mr. Naj Anila.
01:44:45 She talked about governments needing to be proactive in involving the private sector
01:44:50 and civil society organizations.
01:44:54 We had a wide ranging discussion on social norms, including from Deepa at the end.
01:44:59 [Mamta Murthi]: And I, to me, what was very striking is what
01:45:03 I among Imam Hademine said about traditional community leaders playing a very important
01:45:12 role in influencing the mindsets of both boys and men, but also women and girls.
01:45:20 And the role that governments and development partners can play in support and strengthening
01:45:25 the voice of community leaders.
01:45:27 [Mamta Murthi]: And Deepa, what I took away from what you
01:45:31 said is we really need to an approach that changes mindsets of both men and women.
01:45:38 I was struck by what you said about men being trapped in their own narrative, in addition
01:45:42 to women being trapped in their narrative.
01:45:45 [Mamta Murthi]: So, as I said, I need to reflect, we all need
01:45:49 to reflect a lot more on what has been said.
01:45:51 But I really take to heart, the comments made by ministers Sri Mulyani in the final session
01:45:58 where she really urged the World Bank to better leverage digital technology and social media
01:46:04 to strengthen the gender lens, to everything that we do, and try and influence minds and
01:46:09 hearts of both men and women.
01:46:11 So, that's something we will indeed reflect on.
01:46:16 Let me just conclude by saying a deep and sincere thank you for everybody who has thought
01:46:22 so much and contributed so deeply to this discussion.
01:46:26 [Mamta Murthi]: And I also want to reflect what our managing
01:46:30 director, Mari Panngestu, said at the start.
01:46:33 This is just the start of a year-long reflection we intend to have on gender equality and how
01:46:39 the World Bank can do better.
01:46:40 Please engage with us.
01:46:42 Please give us your thoughts, your suggestions, your ideas.
01:46:45 And I hope that we will have a strong and inclusive and gender strategy at the end of
01:46:51 this, which reflects the participation of all of you.
01:46:55 So with that, thank you very much.
01:46:57 Bye for now.
01:46:58 And apologies for taking a little longer than we intended to.
01:47:02 Thank you.
01:47:03 Bye bye.

Read the chat

Ann Kele

The violance can be followed easily. Who can stop gender based violance ? The family, the education at scools or relegions

Thu, 01/13/2022 - 09:12

Ann Kele

The violance can be followed easily. Who can stop gender based violance ? The family, the education at scools or relegions

Thu, 01/13/2022 - 09:12

JoseE IFC

Economic and Financial independence and empowerment is a very powerful way to reduce GBV. We have seen it over an over in Emerging Markets. Private sector and FIs in particular play a key role via generating the means for said independence as well as training women to increase the financial knowledge.

Thu, 01/13/2022 - 09:12

JoseE IFC

Economic and Financial independence and empowerment is a very powerful way to reduce GBV. We have seen it over an over in Emerging Markets. Private sector and FIs in particular play a key role via generating the means for said independence as well as training women to increase the financial knowledge.

Thu, 01/13/2022 - 09:12

Kebba Ngumbo Sima

Great discourse!!!

Thu, 01/13/2022 - 09:18

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