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Coronavirus Live Series: Bridging the Digital Divide

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The internet has been vital in connecting us to friends, family, work and school during #COVID19, but the poorest countries and people are being left behind. What can we do to support digital inclusion? Our @BoutheinaGuerm1, Director of Digital Development, shares some ideas.

Speaker

Boutheina Guermazi

World Bank’s Director of Digital Development (DD)

@BoutheinaGuerm1

Host

Paul Blake

External Affairs Officer, World Bank Group

@PaulNBlake

Read the transcript

00:09 [Paul Blake] Hello, and welcome to World Bank Live. I'm Paul Blake.
00:12 Today, we're continuing our effort to understand how COVID-19 is impacting
00:17 just about every aspect of global development, as well as the solutions that the international
00:22 community is putting forward. We're doing that today by looking at how digital development is
00:27 playing a key role in the global response. From communications to remote working technologies,
00:33 from digital healthcare infrastructure to distance learning, these are just a few of the
00:37 ways that digital development is underpinning the response to this unprecedented crisis. As
00:43 the world starts to plan a recovery, access to digital services will be critical. That is the
00:49 thought that World Bank Group president David Malpass shared on this program just last month.
00:53 [David Malpass] One of the problems that poor countries
00:56 have is just being cut off. People live in rural areas, they don't have broadband. In some cases,
01:03 many cases, don't have electricity or water that is clean enough to drink. So as we look to the
01:12 other side of this, I think there's a way to make progress on advancing the digital services that
01:21 people have available so they can get access to information. That's a starting point for farmers
01:27 to do a better job, for people to learn skills. One of the big things that people can do now,
01:33 and the Bank has big programs in, is the skills learning at the basic level so that people are
01:40 able to have job in the future. That's something that we're making available programs that will
01:50 help people get access to education or to skills that will help them when there's a recovery.
01:58 [Paul Blake] Now, while many have reaped the benefits of
02:01 an advanced digital landscape, which is blunting some of the worst effects that could have been
02:06 part of an even worse pandemic experience for them, others are being left behind. Lacking or
02:12 having diminished access to technology that saves lives, sustains education and promotes business
02:18 continuity. To learn more about the digital divide and what it means for countries as they respond to
02:24 and prepare to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic and what can be done to support digital inclusion,
02:29 I'm very happy to be joined this morning by the World Bank's director for digital development,
02:34 Boutheina Guermazi. Boutheina, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to World Bank Live.
02:38 [Boutheina Guermazi] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Paul.
02:41 [Paul Blake] Of course. Now, when I
02:43 think about the ways that digital technology is playing a role in the pandemic response so far,
02:47 I listed some of them there in the introduction, there are some obvious ways that come to mind like
02:53 video conferencing software that has allowed a lot of businesses and schools to continue operating,
02:58 but I bet there are a lot of other ways that connectivity has just been critical in responding
03:04 to the crisis. Just to kick things off here, can you give me a sense of the scope in which
03:09 technology is playing in this response? [Boutheina Guermazi]
03:12 Thanks, Paul. In fact, we can look at the many things that this call was called since
03:19 the start of the pandemic. It was called the sector that came to the rescue. It was called
03:25 the hidden hero. It was called the sector that allowed economies to have a lifeline at a time
03:32 where business as usual is so unusual. With the social distancing, with the fact that people had
03:41 to be in a lockdown to contain the pandemic, the only way for business continuity was for people
03:50 to hook on and to be part of this virtual world where, if you are connected, if you have a good
03:57 broadband connectivity, if you have the hardware and software, then, there was a possibility for
04:04 many people to cope with this new normal. The examples are many and they cover remote
04:13 work and we've seen many of us who had the luxury of having connection, who were able to continue
04:20 their job in the virtual world. We know, just in the US, for example, that 50% of workers have
04:29 moved to online work. We see it in schooling. Schooling is a very important element. We know
04:37 that 1.5 billion school kids are out of school. The online learning, the EdTech were a response
04:47 that many countries have to use to make sure that kids go to school. The health sector,
04:57 of course. The health sector is really a sector where connectivity has been very
05:03 important and digital solutions have been very important to contain the pandemic, to treat it,
05:11 in many cases. We have examples from telemedicine, we have examples of countries that we're able to
05:19 use applications to self-test and the whole use of data and big data and artificial intelligence to
05:30 help governments know how to trace the pandemic and how to contain it. Of course, all of this
05:38 has to happen within due respect for privacy and due respect for the personal data that is there.
05:47 There are many other examples. For example, the issues about how do we help citizens that need
05:56 help through mobile payment, through the social plans for paying through mobile. We've seen,
06:05 in many countries the unprecedented growth of social protection support given through digital
06:14 tools. The examples are many and I think, as we look at it, what this crisis really showed is that
06:23 the countries are taking advantage, in a way, of transformation and digital transformation. We've
06:32 seen examples where people who were reluctant to use technology because they don't know how to use
06:39 it or they don't trust it were able to use it in case they have the connection and in case they
06:48 have the connectivity. [Paul Blake]
06:50 What I'm hearing from you here is just how digital technology is really underpinning, whether it's
06:55 research, whether it's the healthcare front lines, whether it business, whether it's education, it's
06:58 really underpinning the response here. One thing that's been on my mind is, this crisis is being
07:04 compared, in many corners, to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Using that as a reference point,
07:10 none of those technologies were available back then, or a lot of the technologies we're talking
07:14 about today were not available back then. As large swathes of the world have gone into lockdown over
07:19 the past few months, I'd imagine there has been a surge in demand and stress on the infrastructure
07:25 of the Internet, the networks that are coming into people's homes. Could you talk a little
07:31 bit about that? You and your team's research and the conversations that you have with government
07:37 and industry, what are you hearing about how providers, be the Internet companies or other,
07:42 how are they coping with that extra demand? [Boutheina Guermazi]
07:45 Yes. Definitely, the demand has happened at multiple levels. On voice,
07:51 we know that the demand for traffic tripled, and we do know that many countries today-
07:57 [Paul Blake] Voice, meaning telephone calls. [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes, but many countries
08:00 today are still voice dominated. We had a very nice discussion with a number of countries
08:07 connected. We had the minister of Afghanistan that really showed that the voice pressure in
08:13 countries that are still voice dominated has been a challenge. So that's one dimension. Of course,
08:19 data is very important. And what we've seen in data is on average, 20% surge of traffic
08:28 linked to data. In many countries, it has doubled. The other thing that requires a surge of increased
08:37 attention needed is Cloud and Cloud computing, video conferences, streaming. In the different
08:46 phases of the digital space, there was a clear need that the operators needed to create more
08:55 space to accommodate the surge of traffic, whether voice or data or video. What we've seen, clearly,
09:03 an incredible response from both governments and from the private sector to respond very quickly to
09:11 the situation. I can give you examples. [Paul Blake]
09:14 [crosstalk] the capacity there, whether it's voice or data or Cloud to really boost that capacity so
09:20 that the infrastructure didn't become overloaded. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to take
09:23 a quick moment. We just want to take a quick break, Boutheina, to catch our breath and welcome
09:27 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. Today, we're looking at digital development
09:32 and the role that it's playing in the coronavirus response as well as how the digital divide between
09:37 those who are readily able to access Internet technologies and those who do not have that
09:43 ability, how it's aggravating some of the worst effects of the pandemic. We've got people tuning
09:48 in from around the world, Tenmeh from Mumbai, Fabiola from Brazil, Rami in Stockholm and Suraj
09:54 in Nepal, Dora in Dubai, tons more people around the world. Thank you so much for joining us.
09:59 We have Boutheina Guermazi on the line. She's the World Bank's director for digital development.
10:04 I just want to bring Boutheina back into the conversation here and Boutheina, like I said,
10:09 sorry to interrupt you there, but before the break, we were talking about the increased demand
10:13 that the Internet service providers, the companies that we pay to connect our homes to the Internet,
10:19 the increased demand that they're experiencing. A lot of places are seeing that increased demand,
10:24 as you said, and there's been a fast tracked response to help meet some of that demand. Can
10:31 we talk a little bit about the digital divide between countries and places where people have
10:36 ready access to the Internet and where they don't? Help me and those watching understand
10:41 this a bit more, geographically speaking, where are we talking about? What countries and regions
10:46 are struggling to provide that connectivity and what are some of maybe the common factors
10:51 between countries and regions that struggle to provide ready and able Internet access?
10:58 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. Now thank you so much.
11:00 I think one of the major learnings from this crisis is that this digital divide,
11:06 I mean, we all know that it exists and we all know that we need to find a way to bridge it,
11:12 but I think what the pandemic highlighted like no other time before is, if you don't
11:19 have the tools to connect to this new normal, then there is the risk of deeper inequalities
11:26 between countries and within countries. If we want to talk about the global digital divide,
11:34 today, there are 3.5 billion people in the world who do not have access to broadband connectivity.
11:41 And the world, as a big village, in a way, we reached a very important milestone last year with
11:51 50% of people connected to the broadband. It took 50 years for the world to reach that milestone,
11:58 so a lot to celebrate, but also, if we flip the coin and look at the other side, it means we have
12:07 so many people that are completely cut off from what we are discussing now about digital having
12:15 been the hidden hero or digital having been an opportunity for business continuity and a lifeline
12:25 for the economy, in many cases. So 3.5 billion and connected, a lot of the lack of connectivity is
12:35 in low-income countries. If we look at the case of Africa, for example, out of the 25 countries
12:45 that are not connected to broadband, 21 are in Africa. Africa, today, we're still at a single
12:52 digit connectivity rate when it comes to broadband defined as 4G. There is a lot of success on mobile
13:01 communication in Africa, a lot of it, but when it comes to broadband, the ability to use what we're
13:11 using now to have this connection, unfortunately, many countries in the world still do not have it.
13:17 [Paul Blake] Yes, I spent some time in rural parts
13:19 of East Africa and in some places, just getting an email out to folks back home was really difficult,
13:25 much less trying to make a video call like we're having today. For the World Bank's Development
13:30 Podcast, I recently spoke to two mothers in the Valle del Cauca region of Colombia,
13:34 Carolina Jaramillo and Elena Rojas Rodriguez. They're two women, they're quite good friends.
13:40 One works in an office, Carolina does. Elena is Carolina's housekeeper, but also really
13:46 close friend. They're living on two sides of that digital divide we're talking about this morning.
13:51 They told us on the podcast what it meant for their children's education, because in Colombia,
13:57 like large parts of the world, the schools have been shut and many of the children have come home.
14:02 We got that clip here, we'll just play that clip so we can hear from these two mothers in Colombia.
14:07 [Carolina Jaramillo] Okay, I have two kids. One of them is 11. The
14:11 other one is 14. Fortunately, they're working, they're studying private schools. So I think
14:17 that the stress hasn't been so much as in public schools, because we have full internet,
14:23 they have access to virtual classes through Zoom or Hangout or WebEx, I think it's called.
14:31 So the different platforms and Skype as well. So they have been receiving their classes by these
14:37 different platforms and they have homework to do after class, which has been quite easy for them
14:45 in terms of it hasn't been difficult because as I said before, I have all the internet connections.
14:49 [Paul Blake] Elena, how are
14:50 your kids continuing their education while they're not able to physically attend school?
14:54 [Carolina Jaramillo translating for Elena] Basically, there's no internet connections.
14:59 Whenever there is internet connection, it's very bad. In order to study, they're sending
15:03 some homework via Facebook. But as I said before, the internet connection is really bad. And the
15:08 other way is that they're sending photocopies to the school and they have to pick it up,
15:12 but it's far away from where they live. So sometimes it's difficult for them to
15:16 pick it up. And that's basically how they're managing right now, their virtual classes.
15:20 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, that was
15:22 Carolina and Elena's story of trying to educate their kids while living on opposite sides of that
15:27 digital divide we've been talking about for the past few minutes. As schools have locked down,
15:31 is that a pattern you are seeing elsewhere where the digital divide is really creating haves and
15:37 have nots in other aspects of their lives? [Boutheina Guermazi]
15:40 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We see different dimensions of this digital divide within
15:47 countries. Even in advanced countries, like for example, in the US with very good connectivity
15:54 rate, there is a big issue between urban and rural and there is a thinking to make sure
15:59 that there are solutions for rural connectivity to make sure no one is left behind. The other
16:07 dimension about the digital divide that is very important to highlight is the gender digital
16:13 divide. We know, today, that 300 million women, fewer women than men, have access,
16:20 even access to a broadband mobile connectivity. We know that 33% less women than men know what
16:31 to do with it. It's a big, big issue and linked to COVID-19, it's really a pandemic that is not
16:38 gender neutral. As we think about the digital divide, we think about the rural urban divide,
16:43 we need to think about the gender divide. We need to think about those who have
16:49 the skills to use the opportunities that the technology offers and those who don't. In the-
16:56 [Paul Blake] Adding factors here that makes it
17:00 much more complicated than just a simple digital divide here, I think is what I'm hearing you say.
17:04 [Boutheina Guermazi] Absolutely. It's like an onion.
17:07 Every time you rip one part, there is another part that shows up and it's really complicated.
17:12 [Paul Blake] One of the other things I
17:15 wanted to ask about is, we received a question on the World Bank's Facebook page from Gopal Agarwal,
17:21 he's in India. Like I said, he was commenting on the World Bank's Facebook page and he was
17:26 asking about some of the particular challenges that people who are disabled or illiterate. Now,
17:31 you were sort of hinting at that there, talking about skills. Can you talk a little bit about
17:35 that? Some of the challenges that people who either have disabilities or who may be illiterate,
17:39 what does the digital divide mean for them? [Boutheina Guermazi]
17:42 Yes, it means that governments and private sector operators need to think about solutions within the
17:51 technology space, and there are many out there that cater to the needs of the disabled people.
17:58 If you cannot read, then, there is an opportunity for you to know what's out there on the Internet,
18:04 but through different means. So far, what we see, a lot of good pilots. AI and having somebody who
18:14 talks your language is very important. You don't need to read it to be taking advantage of the
18:22 promises of technology. It requires solutions, and it requires scaling up these solutions beyond
18:28 the pilot phases. But definitely, the digital divide has also a very important dimension about
18:34 disability that needs to be taken into account. [Paul Blake]
18:36 Let's just take another quick moment here, Boutheina, we'll catch our breath and welcome
18:42 everyone who is joining us here on World Bank Live. We've got Boutheina Guermazi. She's the
18:46 World Bank's director for digital development on the line. She's talking us through how the digital
18:51 divide is really making the response to COVID-19 and the plans and the preparation for the recovery
18:58 from COVID-19 that much more complicated, the digital divide being the difference between people
19:04 who have ready and quality access to broadband Internet technologies and those who don't.
19:11 We see people joining from across the world, this webcast, Banty from the Ivory Coast,
19:16 Mohamed in Sudan, Amore in Indonesia, Adriana in Colombia, Patrick in Lebanon. Welcome to you
19:23 all. Welcome to everyone else who's out there. We really appreciate you being with us this morning.
19:27 Boutheina, I want to come back to you now. Just as we start to wind this program down, let's talk
19:33 a little bit about some of the solutions to the problems we've been talking about this morning.
19:38 What can be done? What is the World Bank Group doing to try and bridge the digital divide that
19:44 we've seen both during this crisis, but also before that we even had COVID-19 on our minds?
19:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. First, it starts by understanding where
19:54 are the problems and understanding the causes of these problems. Some of it is linked to the fact
20:00 that the investment pattern for broadband connectivity is very different from voice.
20:05 It requires patience capital, it requires looking very closely at policy and regulatory environment
20:13 and it also looks at the skills that are needed to improve connectivity. It starts by getting
20:22 deeper into understanding the topic. And for us, I think, connectivity is very important, but it
20:28 is only important if it's meaningful connectivity. I'm giving a shout to the ITU on this particular
20:36 concept that is very, very important. We need to have connectivity, but we
20:41 need to know what to use it for and it needs to be meaningful. Understanding the needs,
20:47 understanding what needs to be financed, we did a very good exercise under the broadband commission
20:52 that looked specifically at Africa and we know today that we need to invest 100 billion dollars
20:59 to bring 90% of Africa to a broadband connectivity of at least 4G. We know this, for it to happen,
21:08 we need very close collaboration with private sector, with partners. I think
21:16 COVID-19 also highlighted very, very clearly the importance of a collaborative approach.
21:22 [Paul Blake] And one important, but maybe not as
21:26 obvious factor, I was reading a little bit about this before this program, but help us understand
21:31 it a little bit. In terms of broadening that access, it requires that capital, it requires that
21:37 investment, but another important aspect is proof of identification. Can you talk to me a little bit
21:43 more about that? Why identification is important and how it's being improved around the world?
21:50 [Boutheina Guermazi] Yes. In a digital world, having a digital
21:54 ID is very important as a big part of our life is moving to the online world. Being recognized
22:02 with a digital ID is, is very, very important. Today, a billion people do not have ID, so they
22:10 are invisible, and a big part of it is still in Africa and many other parts of the world. Having
22:17 an ID that is recognized, that is digital, is very important to also take advantage of the services.
22:24 For example, earlier I mentioned the cash transfer. How do we make sure that it gets to the
22:29 right people? The idea that I mentioned is very important. The whole digital discussion, Paul,
22:37 don't get me wrong, the whole digital discussion is really a discussion beyond the pipes that are
22:45 needed. It's really a whole ecosystem approach, a mindset that we need to have to think about using
22:52 technology for development and it starts with the infrastructure. It also needs the skills,
22:58 it needs the ID, it needs the platform, it needs this vision of the importance for
23:05 digital as an equalizer. If we don't have it, then, digital can become a source for deeper
23:12 inequality. I'm very happy that in the Bank, we are really thinking along those lines and
23:16 we are working with many partners to have this ecosystem approach for digital connectivity.
23:23 [Paul Blake] So it's bigger
23:25 than just laying those, as you say, the pipes, the wires, to connect people to the Internet,
23:30 to develop digitally. It's a holistic approach that requires a lot of different aspects. Just
23:36 as we wrap up here, one last question for you, the World Bank believes digital development will
23:41 be a key part of ensuring resilient recovery from the pandemic that we're going through
23:46 right now. Anyone who saw David Malpass on this program last month, he made the case for that,
23:53 and we saw the clip at the top of this program. Do you think that the pandemic we're living in right
23:59 now is an opportunity to strengthen connectivity around the world? Is it underlying the need to
24:04 strengthen that connectivity? [Boutheina Guermazi]
24:05 Yes, definitely. I think one of the silver linings for the difficult times that we are
24:12 going through is that it really brought to the fore the importance of being connected to cope
24:18 with this world. It also brought the importance of handling the risks. We mentioned the risks of
24:23 exclusion, but also, that is linked to cyber security or not having very robust systems
24:29 for privacy and data as we move to a digital economy. It is an opportunity. People say,
24:37 "Let's not waste a crisis," to get things right, in a way. I think it really brought
24:44 the importance of thinking big, re-imagining all this sector that can rebuild better with
24:52 digital as an element in how we think about it and reset. So very much an opportunity. The time is
25:02 now and it requires doing things not the usual way. It requires thinking outside of the box.
25:08 [Paul Blake] Well, Boutheina, thank you so much
25:10 for taking the time to join us today. [Boutheina Guermazi]
25:11 Thank you for having me. [Paul Blake]
25:14 Boutheina Guermazi is the World Bank's director for digital development. She joined us from her
25:18 home in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Before we go, a quick programming note for those who tune in
25:23 here on World Bank Live. Later this month, we'll start looking in earnest at the challenges and
25:28 opportunities that the pandemic recovery presents. We're looking at the big topics with some of
25:33 the brightest minds from around the Bank and the international development community. We're kicking
25:37 that off, like I said, later this month with a special program on food security. You can find the
25:42 details in the coming days at live.worldbank.org. A huge thanks to everyone who joined us today.
25:47 Let us know what you thought. Leave us a comment or message us on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn.
25:52 Your feedback helps us improve these programs and make each one better and better. In the meantime,
25:57 if you want to learn more about the World Bank and its work and responding to the COVID-19 crisis,
26:02 head on over to worldbank.org/coronavirus. You can all also listen to the complete interview
26:09 with the Colombian mothers we featured in this program. Just search for the World
26:13 Bank's Development Podcast on Spotify, Apple or whatever your favorite podcast platform is.
26:18 Until next time, stay healthy, stay safe, and we'll see you back here again soon. Goodbye.

Read the chat

Aleksandr

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Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05

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Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05

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Economic help poor people every country Coronavirus situation

Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:05

Faher Elfayez, World Bank

Welcome everyone! We are excited for today's dynamic conversation on how the poorest countries and people are being left behind. What can we do to support digital inclusion?

Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:06

Shinta Nakavuma

How are going to do this? In the long run getting the technology might be cheap but accessing internet is the challenge because in my country (Uganda) internet is expensive for a number of people.

Tue, 06/09/2020 - 11:06

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